Mandatory military service
ridenrain @ Fri May 19, 2006 9:31 am
I don't think anyone is suggesting these conscripts being regular forces, but more of a accelerated basic course. This would only be a primer for everyone and we'd still have a high quality, all volunteer force.
We'd need to ramp up a great deal to deal with the turn over but once we did, at least the general population would have some respect or awareness of the military.
Thematic-Device @ Fri May 19, 2006 9:48 am
I voted no, especially for canada.
I agree with mandatory service under certain circumstances, for starters its men and women, and carries with it appropriate means for those who cannot fight due to religion/pacifism to serve the nation in other capacities. Additionally it shouldn't have the ability for the rich and powerful to get out of it. Further if all these conditions are met it should only be only if there is actually a war to be fought.
And how the hell are you going to pay for it, canada has a greying society, are you going to take the few people holding up the economy and throw them in the army and expect for there to still be tax revenue?
Almighty1 Almighty1:
Not the USSR style where you are commited at a very young age, but rather at a voluntary time between a certain age and time-after high school/or college. From my perspective, it is a solid idea, teaches values, strength-both mental and physical, and provides an opportunity to travel and learn about other parts of the world that otherwise we would only read of in the paper or see on TV.
Lots of things can do that.
$1:
This generation (me included) is lacking the sacrifice made by the past generations, and forgetting these lessons learned.
Thats a stupid reason to seek war.
bootlegga @ Fri May 19, 2006 11:51 am
ridenrain ridenrain:
I don't think anyone is suggesting these conscripts being regular forces, but more of a accelerated basic course. This would only be a primer for everyone and we'd still have a high quality, all volunteer force.
We'd need to ramp up a great deal to deal with the turn over but once we did, at least the general population would have some respect or awareness of the military.
We'd need to ramp up a great deal to deal with the turn over but once we did, at least the general population would have some respect or awareness of the military.
The military isn't there to create awareness in the citizenry, it is there to protect Canada and kill our enemies. Conscripts have been proven over and over to be less effective. More and more countries are going professional for just this reason.
Training someone for six months and then having them rotate to a unit for six more months and then quit (as 90% or more would) will only sap morale and erode effectiveness.
If you want more awareness, make Rembrance Day a national holiday, and/or teach more history in high schoool. We don't need awareness, we need an effective military.
Robair @ Fri May 19, 2006 12:11 pm
Hell no.
If you want to create more intrest in the millitary, increase the pay.
If you want youngsters to learn history, teach it in highschool.
Some folks were not built for taking orders, some have too much ambition to spend a year learning how to march.
And, sadly, some are just too lazy. But whatever the reason, keep the millitary down to just the folks that actually want to be there. You'll get more bang for your buck that way for sure.
Hester @ Fri May 19, 2006 12:20 pm
I can't say "NO!" loudly enough.
If you want to see our kids serve in the CF to learn to be better citizens suggests that you've given up on parenting and the school system. You have to have faith that parents will raise their children the best they can and that schools will teach children to be good citizens.
Other than not being able to handle 500X the number of recruits we have right now, what would we do with them? Make them all infanteers? I have no idea. The base salary alone for a recruit is not cheap.
We also have enough junior people doing their initial three years to see what the CF is like, see if this is what they want to do. If one in 10 right now is a problem child that drives us nuts, do you think we would like it if suddenly there's 10,000 and 9,000 don't want to be there?
Find your answers somewhere else. This is insanity. Again, we should try to prevent the problem from arising, not fixing it after.
LABBATTS50 @ Fri May 19, 2006 12:26 pm
I think that if you quit school, or are graduated with no trade or post secondary school plans, then you are going in for a two year hitch rather than being a burden on society and/or your parents. After two years of recieving a paycheck instead of hanging out on a corner, if you want out, you have some much needed life skills making you more attractive to employers, many will probably chooses to make a career out of it. This is not about creating a militant state, it is about improving our society as a whole as I see it.
ridenrain @ Fri May 19, 2006 12:28 pm
bootlegga bootlegga:
ridenrain ridenrain:
I don't think anyone is suggesting these conscripts being regular forces, but more of a accelerated basic course. This would only be a primer for everyone and we'd still have a high quality, all volunteer force.
We'd need to ramp up a great deal to deal with the turn over but once we did, at least the general population would have some respect or awareness of the military.
We'd need to ramp up a great deal to deal with the turn over but once we did, at least the general population would have some respect or awareness of the military.
The military isn't there to create awareness in the citizenry, it is there to protect Canada and kill our enemies. Conscripts have been proven over and over to be less effective. More and more countries are going professional for just this reason.
Training someone for six months and then having them rotate to a unit for six more months and then quit (as 90% or more would) will only sap morale and erode effectiveness.
If you want more awareness, make Rembrance Day a national holiday, and/or teach more history in high schoool. We don't need awareness, we need an effective military.
As I said, these would be raw recruits and would not rotate in and out of the regular volunteer forces. We could even make this part of the reserve system so they could do time at night, then be sent off for field manouvers.
This is just an idea, not some sort of policy discussion. Don't take this so seriously.
Hester @ Fri May 19, 2006 12:44 pm
LABBATTS50 LABBATTS50:
I think that if you quit school, or are graduated with no trade or post secondary school plans, then you are going in for a two year hitch rather than being a burden on society and/or your parents. After two years of recieving a paycheck instead of hanging out on a corner, if you want out, you have some much needed life skills making you more attractive to employers, many will probably chooses to make a career out of it. This is not about creating a militant state, it is about improving our society as a whole as I see it.
How long have you been in the CF?
There are already plenty who only do their basic engagement and can't wait to get out. We don't need to add to their numbers.
And there are plenty of these who are most certainly NOT better citizens for their time in the CF.
LABBATTS50 @ Fri May 19, 2006 12:54 pm
Hester Hester:
LABBATTS50 LABBATTS50:
I think that if you quit school, or are graduated with no trade or post secondary school plans, then you are going in for a two year hitch rather than being a burden on society and/or your parents. After two years of recieving a paycheck instead of hanging out on a corner, if you want out, you have some much needed life skills making you more attractive to employers, many will probably chooses to make a career out of it. This is not about creating a militant state, it is about improving our society as a whole as I see it.
How long have you been in the CF?
There are already plenty who only do their basic engagement and can't wait to get out. We don't need to add to their numbers.
And there are plenty of these who are most certainly NOT better citizens for their time in the CF.
19 years, how long have you been in the CF
Blue_Nose @ Fri May 19, 2006 12:59 pm
What about mandatory involvement in afterschool music programs, or mandatory involvement in organized sport? If it's about character building, why does the military have to be involved?
LABBATTS50 @ Fri May 19, 2006 1:01 pm
Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
What about mandatory involvement in afterschool music programs, or mandatory involvement in organized sport? If it's about character building, why does the military have to be involved?
Because that is what the thread is all about.
How about banning video games to all those under 21? maybe then they would take up the other activities like you suggest, which I am all for with you.
Blue_Nose @ Fri May 19, 2006 1:09 pm
I'm just saying that if your aim is to improve health and values, pushing people into the military isn't the best way.
Turning the Canadian military into some sort of backwards social development program is the last thing we need.
Thematic-Device @ Fri May 19, 2006 1:13 pm
bootlegga bootlegga:
ridenrain ridenrain:
I don't think anyone is suggesting these conscripts being regular forces, but more of a accelerated basic course. This would only be a primer for everyone and we'd still have a high quality, all volunteer force.
We'd need to ramp up a great deal to deal with the turn over but once we did, at least the general population would have some respect or awareness of the military.
We'd need to ramp up a great deal to deal with the turn over but once we did, at least the general population would have some respect or awareness of the military.
The military isn't there to create awareness in the citizenry, it is there to protect Canada and kill our enemies. Conscripts have been proven over and over to be less effective. More and more countries are going professional for just this reason.
Volunteers are more effective then conscripts, the thing is adding conscripts only reduces your average effectiveness, the volunteers are still just as effective. I'd say the move towards volunteer is more out of the lack of need for a large military force at the moment. When a large military force is needed again conscripts will come back.