Obama: Everyone wants to be us
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Lemmy @ Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:35 am
Jonny_C Jonny_C:
Driving is a sin too, judging by the taxes on gasoline.
Morality has nothing to do with sin tax. Elasticity of demand is the key. The elasticity of demand for gasoline is somewhere around -0.25, which makes it an excellent target for excise taxation. That means that a 1% increase in price will only cause a 0.25% decrease in quantity sold.
bootlegga @ Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:00 am
Jonny_C Jonny_C:
bootlegga bootlegga:
The difference is sin taxes - here alcohol and cigarettes are taxed like crazy by the government.
Driving is a sin too, judging by the taxes on gasoline.
Gas taxes here aren't that bad - try driving in Europe or Asia. Yes, we pay a bit more than the Americans do, but our taxes are pretty mild compared to Europe or Asia. You'll shit yourself after filling up in either place - it's close to twice what we pay here.
Besides, like sin taxes on booze and cigarettes, it's a user fee - if you don't use it, you don't pay it. If you don't want to pay it, don't use it.
2Cdo @ Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:04 am
bootlegga bootlegga:
Besides, like sin taxes on booze and cigarettes, it's a user fee - if you don't use it, you don't pay it. If you don't want to pay it, don't use it.
The main issue I have with fuel taxes is that nobody needs booze or cigarettes
, but not everyone lives where public transport is an option.
Brenda @ Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:15 am
bootlegga bootlegga:
Jonny_C Jonny_C:
bootlegga bootlegga:
The difference is sin taxes - here alcohol and cigarettes are taxed like crazy by the government.
Driving is a sin too, judging by the taxes on gasoline.
Gas taxes here aren't that bad - try driving in Europe or Asia. Yes, we pay a bit more than the Americans do, but our taxes are pretty mild compared to Europe or Asia. You'll shit yourself after filling up in either place - it's close to twice what we pay here.
And then there's BPM (25% of the worth of your car is added to your income...) but that will be replaced by a kilometer-tax in 2013. Also, you are taxed on how much CO2 you exhaust. That's on top of the $2.50/liter you pay for gas.
Good thing the kilometer tax is for the amount of kms you actually drive, not how long you are stuck in a damned traffic jam...
bootlegga @ Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:16 am
2Cdo 2Cdo:
bootlegga bootlegga:
Besides, like sin taxes on booze and cigarettes, it's a user fee - if you don't use it, you don't pay it. If you don't want to pay it, don't use it.
The main issue I have with fuel taxes is that nobody needs booze or cigarettes
, but not everyone lives where public transport is an option.That's true - but if you have a fuel efficient vehicle, you pay a lot less gas tax.
I have no pity for people who gripe about gas prices when they drive a huge SUV/Pick-up unless they absolutely need it for work (in which case it's a business deduction and irrelevant).
And I'm not saying everyone should buy a Prius either, just that people should purchase moderate size vehicles, instead of automatically opting for the giant gas-guzzling Mustang or F-150.
IMHO, gas-guzzling vehicle owners have no right to complain about gas prices anymore than non-voters do about the government.
Jonny_C @ Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:18 am
bootlegga bootlegga:
Besides, like sin taxes on booze and cigarettes, it's a user fee - if you don't use it, you don't pay it. If you don't want to pay it, don't use it.
That's fine until it applies to things that are important to you. Maybe I don't want to support a new local hockey rink with my tax dollars, or a new major league stadium. You should pay the full unsubsidized cost whenever you use it.
Just one example.
andyt @ Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:23 am
Everyone needs housing too - so there should be no taxes on it. Everyone needs clothes, so no taxes. Etc. So how will the govt pay for the roads so people that need to drive can do so. And the cops and medical personnel to clean up the accidents. HOw will the govt pay for the services is provides to residences if they're not taxed?
In Vancouver the drivers love to howl about the subsidy to transit "let the users pay." Not recognizing if that subsidy was removed they'd be sharing the roads with a lot more people. But you should then hear the caterwauling when the govt proposes user pay for roads. I say jack up the gas taxes, it's a good idea all around.
2Cdo @ Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:26 am
Maybe we should place a tax on bicycles that use the road. Or a licence. I'm thinking a minimum $1000/yr for all bicycles that use paved roads!
PublicAnimalNo9 @ Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:32 am
2Cdo 2Cdo:
Maybe we should place a tax on bicycles that use the road. Or a licence. I'm thinking a minimum $1000/yr for all bicycles that use paved roads!
It no longer exists but years ago Windsor required anyone that rode their bikes on non-residential streets to have a "bike" licence.
andyt @ Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:35 am
2Cdo 2Cdo:
Maybe we should place a tax on bicycles that use the road. Or a licence. I'm thinking a minimum $1000/yr for all bicycles that use paved roads!
I don't think you'll get much support from cities that are trying to encourage bicycle use to reduce congestion. But, if that $1000 is proportional to the true cost of what a car on the road costs, I'm all for it. My guess, everything considered, that car tax would be at least $10,000/year, more for pickups and SUVs.
andyt @ Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:37 am
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
2Cdo 2Cdo:
Maybe we should place a tax on bicycles that use the road. Or a licence. I'm thinking a minimum $1000/yr for all bicycles that use paved roads!
It no longer exists but years ago Windsor required anyone that rode their bikes on non-residential streets to have a "bike" licence.
Would actually be a good idea in many ways. Especially if there was some sort of test for the rider to go with it.
2Cdo @ Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:43 am
andyt andyt:
2Cdo 2Cdo:
Maybe we should place a tax on bicycles that use the road. Or a licence. I'm thinking a minimum $1000/yr for all bicycles that use paved roads!
I don't think you'll get much support from cities that are trying to encourage bicycle use to reduce congestion. But, if that $1000 is proportional to the true cost of what a car on the road costs, I'm all for it. My guess, everything considered, that car tax would be at least $10,000/year, more for pickups and SUVs.
Wouldn't be that much, we're already paying the fuel taxes which partially go to road maintenance.
$1:
Would actually be a good idea in many ways. Especially if there was some sort of test for the rider to go with it.
This should be mandatory.
Brenda @ Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:47 am
Insurance should be mandatory too.
andyt @ Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:47 am
2Cdo 2Cdo:
andyt andyt:
2Cdo 2Cdo:
Maybe we should place a tax on bicycles that use the road. Or a licence. I'm thinking a minimum $1000/yr for all bicycles that use paved roads!
I don't think you'll get much support from cities that are trying to encourage bicycle use to reduce congestion. But, if that $1000 is proportional to the true cost of what a car on the road costs, I'm all for it. My guess, everything considered, that car tax would be at least $10,000/year, more for pickups and SUVs.
Wouldn't be that much, we're already paying the fuel taxes which partially go to road maintenance.
I have absolutely no problem going for user pay system for cars and bikes. For cars for sure, I would hope it would be proportional to road use. I think you would be surprised what you would have to pay vs if I only rode my bike. Unfortunately I also use my car. Maybe people with cars would get a free bike license, since they can't use both at the same time.
SprCForr @ Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:48 am
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
Let's get this straight, a two-four IS a case.
Unless you're in the West where it's 12. Damn easterners.
$1:
When I was in Edmonton back in '87, I was flabbergasted that you could only get beer in 12's. On the plus side, it tasted a helluva lot better than the dreck that was brewed in Ontario.
It was a great day when 2-4's finally made their way out here. I never understood why it took so long. Of course I never understood why Saskatchewan drinks Pil either...
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