Alberta, B.C., And Pipelines
Freakinoldguy @ Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:43 am
All we have to do to get the oil moving is to have the PM grow a set and tell Whoregan that it's going through. He already stated it's in Canada's National Interest so there can be no doubt about it's validity and legality.
Despite a bunch of assholes who don't have jobs, are retired and bored or are getting paid, the Province of BC can't legally stop the oil and if you don't think the NDP's faux outrage isn't a political ploy then maybe people should read this.
http://business.financialpost.com/opini ... -interests
And the best line is this one:
$1:
Their outrage would be more credible if Vancouver wasn’t about to become the world’s largest coal exporting port
Hypocritical environmentalists. Who would have guessed?
Freakinoldguy @ Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:08 am
If this is anywhere near accurate and given the amount of money that "big oil" spends outside of Alberta does anybody else see the hypocrisy of the BC NDP Gov't?
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BRAH @ Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:18 pm
Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:
All we have to do to get the oil moving is to have the PM grow a set and tell Whoregan that it's going through. He already stated it's in Canada's National Interest so there can be no doubt about it's validity and legality.
Despite a bunch of assholes who don't have jobs, are retired and bored or are getting paid, the Province of BC can't legally stop the oil and if you don't think the NDP's faux outrage isn't a political ploy then maybe people should read this.
http://business.financialpost.com/opini ... -interests
And the best line is this one:
Hypocritical environmentalists. Who would have guessed?
Despite a bunch of assholes who don't have jobs, are retired and bored or are getting paid, the Province of BC can't legally stop the oil and if you don't think the NDP's faux outrage isn't a political ploy then maybe people should read this.
http://business.financialpost.com/opini ... -interests
And the best line is this one:
$1:
Their outrage would be more credible if Vancouver wasn’t about to become the world’s largest coal exporting port
Hypocritical environmentalists. Who would have guessed?
This is coal being shipped by rail through White Rock right next to the Ocean. Imagine the environmental disaster if it derailed.
Thanos @ Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:50 pm
Ah, those environment-loving BC'ers:
http://calgarysun.com/health/b-c-centre ... 13d2170506
$1:
VANCOUVER — Health officials in British Columbia have closed two oyster farms amid an investigation into another outbreak of norovirus linked to the consumption of raw oysters.
The BC Centre for Disease Control says there have been about 40 cases of the acute stomach upset since early March and all those who became ill reported eating raw oysters from B.C.
The centre says laboratory testing confirms the presence of norovirus in some of the cases and the illness is suspected in the rest of those who have become ill.
An exact source of the contamination has not been determined but the centre says human sewage in seawater is the most likely cause.
The BC Centre for Disease Control says there have been about 40 cases of the acute stomach upset since early March and all those who became ill reported eating raw oysters from B.C.
The centre says laboratory testing confirms the presence of norovirus in some of the cases and the illness is suspected in the rest of those who have become ill.
An exact source of the contamination has not been determined but the centre says human sewage in seawater is the most likely cause.
Here's hoping that Elizabeth May, Kennedy Stewart, and John Horgan all shit themselves to death after a big helping of the clams casino.
herbie @ Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:18 pm
$1:
This is coal being shipped by rail through White Rock right next to the Ocean. Imagine the environmental disaster if it derailed.
Oh yeah just awful... we probably don't make shovels in Canada anymore... it's fucking black and you can pick it up with your fingers.
So what no one mentions is in the midst of KMs bawling, there's the 'overwhelming regulatory burden' mentioned... oh yeah, just ingratiate yourself to Liberal/NDPers everywhere why don't ya?
I could name a goddam vaccum cleaner salesman that could do a better job of selling the idea.
And BTW for the anti-pipeliners: how's that Montney oil gonna get to market? Gonna picket the drill rigs too?
BRAH @ Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:07 pm
What's worse for Vancouver and the lower mainland shipping oil by rail or pipeline? As for coal the North Vancouver coal terminal there hasn't been any protests against it, okay cool.
bootlegga @ Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:53 am
Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:
We now have 3 Green MLA's who are calling the shot's for any expansion or continuation of BC and by extension Canada's oil industry just so some pantywaist socialist can keep his party in power because he didn't have a strong enough platform or was popular enough to gain a majority against one of the worst Premiers in BC history.
BTW this scenario is exactly why Weaver and crowd want proportional representation. He'll never win a majority but will always be able to be the king maker to whom the other more popular parties will have to seek out and bow to if they want to stay in power.
BTW this scenario is exactly why Weaver and crowd want proportional representation. He'll never win a majority but will always be able to be the king maker to whom the other more popular parties will have to seek out and bow to if they want to stay in power.
^ This.
Thanos @ Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:03 am
At this stage the writing on the wall has to be acknowledged. The regionalist politics of this stupid country will not allow us to get our product to tidewater. The game is lost. The assholes won.
The acceptance must be made that the US will be the only transportation corridor allowed. As such we should begin entering into negotiations to add another large-diameter line from Alberta to Texas. Double the Keystone XL line or put together a proposal for a different route to the Gulf coast altogether. If Trump's meltdown/probably impeachment happens sooner rather than later we should immediately approach Mike Pence's office for their input, and then get the damn shovels in the ground the very day Trump is gone. We won't make as much profit with the US as our only customer but some profit is better than the nothing we're going to receive thanks to BC, Quebec, and Ottawa.
And when I say "we" I only mean Alberta and Saskatchewan. Aside from their rubber stamp on the approval forms I want nothing else from the federal government. Their "help" has been less than useless and, for the most part, totally insincere anyway. What's happened in the last several years with Northern Gateway, Energy East, and now Transmountain is a worst betrayal than what Trudeau Sr. did to us with the NEP. This will NOT be forgotten. Or ever forgiven.
bootlegga @ Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:39 am
Thanos Thanos:
Ah, those environment-loving BC'ers:
http://calgarysun.com/health/b-c-centre ... 13d2170506
Here's hoping that Elizabeth May, Kennedy Stewart, and John Horgan all shit themselves to death after a big helping of the clams casino.
http://calgarysun.com/health/b-c-centre ... 13d2170506
$1:
VANCOUVER — Health officials in British Columbia have closed two oyster farms amid an investigation into another outbreak of norovirus linked to the consumption of raw oysters.
The BC Centre for Disease Control says there have been about 40 cases of the acute stomach upset since early March and all those who became ill reported eating raw oysters from B.C.
The centre says laboratory testing confirms the presence of norovirus in some of the cases and the illness is suspected in the rest of those who have become ill.
An exact source of the contamination has not been determined but the centre says human sewage in seawater is the most likely cause.
The BC Centre for Disease Control says there have been about 40 cases of the acute stomach upset since early March and all those who became ill reported eating raw oysters from B.C.
The centre says laboratory testing confirms the presence of norovirus in some of the cases and the illness is suspected in the rest of those who have become ill.
An exact source of the contamination has not been determined but the centre says human sewage in seawater is the most likely cause.
Here's hoping that Elizabeth May, Kennedy Stewart, and John Horgan all shit themselves to death after a big helping of the clams casino.
2:25 FTW
bootlegga @ Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:41 am
$1:
A BC Supreme Court judge is calling on the province to press criminal charges against protesters arrested for violating an injunction while protesting the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.
...
In the hearing, Justice Kenneth Affleck argued that the case was not about Kinder Morgan’s Trans Mountain project, but about demonstrators willfully breaking the law.
He argued that it was a matter of criminal contempt of court, not of civil contempt, and argued that B.C. Attorney General David Eby’s office should manage the case.
...
In the hearing, Justice Kenneth Affleck argued that the case was not about Kinder Morgan’s Trans Mountain project, but about demonstrators willfully breaking the law.
He argued that it was a matter of criminal contempt of court, not of civil contempt, and argued that B.C. Attorney General David Eby’s office should manage the case.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4133661/tran ... osecution/
A guy can only hope...
Thanos @ Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:15 pm
History lesson on the last time a NDP premier in BC messed around with federal government authority. It didn't end well for him:
http://calgaryherald.com/news/canada/th ... ddc88df8c7
$1:
A B.C. NDP premier directly challenges federal authority, claiming his actions are necessary to protect coastal communities and the health of the ocean.
The preceding sentence could describe the ongoing anti-pipeline moves by B.C. premier John Horgan, but it also neatly summarizes a 1990s saga in which then-premier Glen Clark tried to shut down a torpedo testing range on Vancouver Island.
In that case, though, an irked Liberal government in Ottawa did not hesitate to unleash the nuclear option on a rebellious province.
The preceding sentence could describe the ongoing anti-pipeline moves by B.C. premier John Horgan, but it also neatly summarizes a 1990s saga in which then-premier Glen Clark tried to shut down a torpedo testing range on Vancouver Island.
In that case, though, an irked Liberal government in Ottawa did not hesitate to unleash the nuclear option on a rebellious province.
It's bad when I have to long for the days of Jean Chretien just because he had some backbone and wouldn't hesitate to nail someone who encroached on his territory. This situation isn't entirely Trudeau's fault but, holy fuck, make a damn decision one way or another and quit trying to please everyone on all sides.
herbie @ Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:41 pm
$1:
This situation isn't entirely Trudeau's fault but, holy fuck, make a damn decision one way or another and quit trying to please everyone on all sides
He's made the decision but can't seem to convince anyone of that, he's failed to communicate it in a firm, clear manner. He needs to slam his fists down and deliver a Cartman "respect my authority!!!" that half the people think is the ONLY way a good politician operates.
And it seems Horgan is the only level headed, clear minded, politically astute politician of those involved. The only opposition he has left is the court challenge to determine if it's Canada or BC who determines what content is allowed to travel across the province. It seems general legal opinion says he will lose, so test it. Doesn't matter in the least what happens, he wins either way. So ALberta and the feds better make sure they win the case.
The douchebag in the picture is now KM who's determined to stir up the pot by imposing an arbitrary deadline and or/else threat. It is them who aren't working in the national interest.
JaredMilne @ Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:48 am
BRAH BRAH:
Rachel Notley should cut off Equalization payments, Alberta first.
Alberta can't control equalization. It's a federal program, defined by a federal formula. It's entirely possible that we might end up getting equalization later-and Francois Legault is openly talking about turning Quebec into a have province, with all the polls showing him in the lead for the Quebec election later this year.
Notley is talking about turning off the fuel taps to BC, similar to what Peter Lougheed did in our fight with the feds over the NEP.
Individualist Individualist:
I think for many of those who do, it’s an extension of their anti-Americanism. Alberta is commonly considered the most American of our provinces, just as Quebec is considered the most European (with downtown Toronto trying hard to compete in that category). If you’re a Canadian who hates all things American (IOW, a Canadian nationalist), you’re going to have a distaste for Alberta and it’s dominant culture. These same people also tend to be anti-Israel, because Israel is a US ally.
I’d say there’s an inverse correlation among Canadians between disliking Alberta and disliking Quebec.
Such a correlation overlooks the common tendency across Canada to end up drifting towards the centre. Quebec under René Levèsque was cutting funding and pissing off unions a good 10-12 years before Mike Harris and Ralph Klein made it trendy in Anglo-majority Canada, and when they did Lucien Bouchard was right there with the rest of us in balancing Quebec's budget.
Meanwhile, in Alberta we're the only part of Canada with a government-owned bank (Alberta Treasury Branch), incentives and subsidies to the oilsands with royalty rebates and other support, Preston Manning saying Albertans need a "wake up call" on the environment and his father Ernest saying that everyone deserved a decent standard of living from the oilsands, and Peter Lougheed trying to diversify the Alberta economy.
But the real problem is the one I laid out at the start of this thread. Albertans like Thanos and myself are pissed off because we see the pipeline as critical to our province's economy and livelihoods. Meanwhile, many BCers see the pipeline as a threat to their own well-being, particularly with the feeling that they'll take all the risk while Alberta reaps all the benefits (a situation not unlike the NEP back when I was in diapers).
I wonder if Trudeau could do better by pointing out Horgan's own actions such as his approval of Site C (which really pissed off a lot of Indigenous people in Lotusland) his continuing of Christy Clark's LNG terminal support, Vancouver's dumping sewage into the ocean (much like Montreal dumping sewage into the St. Lawrence) and the fact that so few environmentalists seem to have a problem with Venezuela financing its social revolution with oil. With all the spending many leftists are calling for, where do they expect the money to come from when such a significant part of our tax base is disrupted?
These are the kinds of questions Trudeau ought to be asking. Force the BC government and the environmentalists to answer these questions, and maybe even (which I admit is probably wishful thinking on my part) to reexamine their issues with O&G development.
Otherwise, though, I hate myself in thinking about this issue. I see the very real concerns and frustrations on both sides, and I can't figure out how to address them. IOW, I'm failing Alberta, B.C. and Canada all at once.
herbie @ Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:12 am
Pretty good comment.
$1:
Meanwhile, many BCers see the pipeline as a threat to their own well-being, particularly with the feeling that they'll take all the risk while Alberta reaps all the benefits
Remains the root of the problem.
$1:
I wonder if Trudeau could do better by pointing out Horgan's own actions such as his approval of Site C (which really pissed off a lot of Indigenous people in Lotusland) his continuing of Christy Clark's LNG terminal support
Pointing that out thinking you're pointing out hypocrisy is completely backward. Both Site C and LNG decisions center on jobs, and economic benefits to BC. Proof that the gov't is not pure environmental dogmatists. Trudeau and Notley will be meeting with Horgan(NDP) this weekend, not Weaver(Green) and must act accordingly.
BTW it's Victoria with the sewage issue, not Vancouver.
Thanos @ Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:42 am
The risk to BC is wildly overstated, deliberately too by the pipeline opponents. The federal commitment to spill response and the basics of the construction code are designed to purposely mitigate any leaks. Once again there's no 100% safety guarantee possible, but for fuck's sake it's not like it's some kind of drunken Red Green-level shit-show and the line is being built out of cardboard tubing and duct tape.
The real threat at any shoreside oil terminal isn't in the on-shore piping anyway. It's from whatever ancient rattle-trap tanker registered in some third-world shithole pulls up to the terminal for loading. And that's entirely a federal responsibility to ensure that obsolete tankers or ones with broken loading equipment aren't allowed to dock in Canadian waters. That has nothing at all to do with either Alberta or Kinder-Morgan. But the same "imminent disaster!" scenario can be said too about any of the how-many-per-day ships that pull in to load or unload in Vancouver-area waters. The only option for 100% safety is to ban commercial shipping in BC waters altogether and no one (except the nuttiest of the eco-nuts) ever goes on record to suggest anything draconian like that.