Canada Kicks Ass
ipperwash inquiry


Madman @ Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:36 pm

for those interesting in the proceeding ... /index.htm ... /index.htm ... /index.htm

lets the debates begin

my question, dont have a total opion yet, was he armed or not
and why was the dod not allow to testify at the original procedding about the hole in their choppers?


Donny_Brasco @ Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:10 am

Well, I'm not to sure if they had guns or not. I'd say not because if the elder says they didn't then I'd believe him. But anyways, here's the mentality of the cops who were there. I wouldn't put it past them to plant evidence, given this assassination would have repercussions all the way up to the premier of the province. They would have much to gain and little to lose by falsifying evidence. And when you read the statement below, remember these are "undercover cops" posing as fukked is that?

Ontario's provincial police association is apologizing for racist remarks made by two officers during the 1995 Ipperwash standoff. The officers were recorded making insulting comments about natives.

On the tape, two officers are heard talking:

Officer #1 -- "We had this plan, you know? We thought if we could get five or six cases of Labatts 50, we could bait them and we'd have this big net and a pit."

Officer #2 -- "Creative thinking."

Officer #1 -- "Works in the south with watermelon."

In another section:

Officer #1 -- "Is there still a lot of press down there?''

Officer #2 -- "No, there's no one down there. Just a big fat fuck Indian."

The tape was made by police officers posing as media to get better access to the protesters at Ipperwash. It was recorded a day before protester Dudley George was shot dead by a police sniper.

So if anyone knows anything about violence and stages of escalating violence...these guys have already de-humanized the Natives, made them less then human and basically given themselves permission to treat them as such.

And the thing about the watermelons...a poke at black for? Just because they are redneck racists. These are the guys who are supposed to be protecting all of us, not just white folks.Ipperwash Report Jan 22, 2004 CTV - Police make racist comments


Madman @ Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:03 am

I know the cops were racist, which is unacceptable,
but the army helicopters had holes in them from gunfire, the cops didn't do
it, nor did the army, also 2 guns were found, one with "bastard blaster" carved into it.

also there is a bad quality picture that could be interpreted as dudley holding a gun.

leaves some questions to be answered eh?


Donny_Brasco @ Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:48 am

Madman Madman:
but the army helicopters had holes in them from gunfire, the cops didn't do it, nor did the army...

I can't find anything about holes in choppers anywhere. Can you find me a source for this information?

In the meantime, read this...keep in mind this man's son has just been shot and he's trying to get to a phone to call foe an ambulance.

A: So the nearest little village is
Northville. And I knew there was a brightly lit
telephone on the corner of the store there, and that's
what I intended to go to, to call for ambulances for all
of those who may have been shot.

Q: Now you had mentioned that there had
been barricades that would be north of Highway 21 towards
the beach on Army Camp Road?
A: Yes, at times there were, but they
were gone. That was another fear, they were all so
brightly lit there, and then at a certain time, all those
lights went out as well, and the barricades were gone.

Q: Okay.
A: And there was also one right at the
intersection of Army Camp Road and Highway 21 and that
was gone.

Q: And when -- when were they there in
relation to when you left to go to use the telephone at
A: They weren't there at that time.
Q: And had they been there earlier, did
you notice them there?
A: Yes. Yes, they were.
Q: And, it might have been possible for
you to go to the Plaza at Kettle Point, there's payphones
there, we understand?
A: It seemed like I would have been
further away and there wasn't a guarantee that they would
be in working order. Quite often the things are
vandalized there.

Q: All right. So you decide to go to
MacPherson's, what would you --
A: MacPherson's?
Q: I'm sorry...?
A: MacPherson's?
Q: MacPherson's. What rate of speed
were you travelling?
A: I made sure that I stopped and
signalled and remained within the speed limit. I didn't
want anyone to come chasing after me for any reason. I
didn't want to give them reason to follow me.

Q: Were -- was there anybody following
A: Half way up the road someone came

chasing after me with the flashers going.

Q: Okay. Now you've indicated that
MacPherson's from -- from where you left the base is
about four (4) kilometres? Is that?
A: Hmm, hmm.
Q: Okay. So approximately two (2)
kilometres down the road you noticed that there's
somebody following you?
A: Yes.
Q: Emergency vehicles?
A: They were police vehicles with the
flashers going on the roof. The red flashers.

Q: And do you recall how many?
A: I think there were two (2). One
pulled up beside me and then it pulled back behind. So I
-- I kept on going. I had mixed feelings about whether
to turn to them for help since they had just shot up our
people. And they should have known enough to get help if
they had done that.

And it didn't appear that help was
forthcoming. I was fearful they wanted to stop me and
shoot me as well because there was no reason to stop me.

Q: And where was your mother at this
A: She was laying down in the front seat
beside me.

Q: All right. Go ahead.
A: So I proceeded to the pay phone. The
other thought I had was they'll see I'm not trying to run
away, that I'm going to be only going as far as that pay
phone. And I went there, pulled directly up to the pay
phone, got out and dialled "0" for the operator.
I -- when she came on the line I heard --
he told her that you need to let the media know and we
need ambulances. Our people have been shot up at Stony
Point and they're going to shoot me too. Because by then
they were out of their cruisers standing behind them with
shotguns levelled at me.

Q: All right. What response did you get
if any, from the operator?
A: When I told her they were going to
shoot me too, she says I think you need to be in touch
with the police. And I told her it was the police who
were going to shoot me.

Q: Okay. What happened after that, Mrs.
A: At one point they told me to get away
from the phone and I told them I was only trying to get
medical help ambulances for our people that had been
shot. I was worried about my son. I don't know if I

mentioned that my son could be lying somewhere dying. I
needed help, we needed medical help.

Q: Okay. Did you get any response from
the police?
A: Nothing. Other than they advanced --
they hid behind the gas pumps with shotguns levelled and
kept advancing. And I figured they were going to shoot
us. And I was determined to try and at least make a last
ditch effort to have some -- someone alerted that there
was a cry for help there.
And I turned my back to them, all these
thoughts came through my head, I couldn't believe that I
had shotguns levelled at me for trying to call for
medical help.

And then I thought of other places in the
world that I heard of things happening. I thought of
Tiananmen Square and I thought of our Canadian Airborne
Regiment and I thought of Anna Mae Aquash and I turned my
back to them and offered them the back of my head if they
were going to shoot me, do it in the back of my head.

Q: Okay.
A: Not too long after that, after they
advanced, I had the phone violently jerked from me and I
remembered meeting the hood of my car and the ground.
And I could hear my mother yelling in the background.

She was trying to tell them about the bone graft I had
just had, that it was healing and they paid no attention.

Q: How many officers are we talking
A: At first there were two (2) and I --
I suspect there were four (4) but it seemed like there
were more afterwards, but I -- it's such a long time ago,
I don't remember the exact numbers now.
I remember being handcuffed with an
officer on my back, with those plastic cuffs and cutting
the circulation off in my hands.

Q: All right. You were on the hood of
your car? Is that what you've told us?
A: And then the ground.
Q: Okay. Did you have any personal
belongings with you?
A: I had my purse. I had my glasses on
which were knocked off and just left lying in the parking
lot. At that time it was a gravel parking lot. And they
even got into my purse and they were throwing the things
all over the parking lot. And I told them that wasn't
23 Q: Okay. You've told us that you've
indicated that you were calling for medical attention.
A: I tried to.

Q: Were you provided any information or
advice that medical attention was already en route?
A: No.
Q: Do you have any recall of that?
A: No.
Q: All right.
A: I wouldn't have had to have called if
there was.

Q: And at that point, did you see what,
if anything, was going on with your mother?
A: After I was in an upright position, I
was aware of her right down on the ground trying to pray.
She had her medicines with her and they wouldn't allow
her to use them and they had shotguns levelled right at
her head, yelling at her to put her hands in the air and
she was pleading that she couldn't because she had
And I thought they were going to blow her
away and I pleaded with them. I said, Leave her alone.
She's been just riding with me. She didn't do anything

I asked them if that's how they were
trained to treat old, grey-haired widows and they seemed
to calm down a little. They couldn't answer that


Madman @ Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:35 am

this is a link to incedent in 1993, few years earlier ... 181&U_ID=0

about 1995 incedent, refers to helicopter being shot, of course they deny they shot at it ... 24272.html ... racts.html

i think its pretty clear to me that someone had a gun, I have been on forums with people that were around the incedent, or knew someone that was(alot from the army side) and they are all saying their helo's were shot


Donny_Brasco @ Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:12 pm

This is wierd...its the cops and the army that don't want to talk about the bullet hole, not the Indians. How intresting. I was thinking the reverse might be true. Somthing smells like fish here.

That CANOE article is a good one. If you want to understand why so many of our people are frustrated, read that one.


Rev_Blair @ Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:52 am

Did anybody see the special that NewsWorld had on a couple of weeks back? It was a bunch of interviews and court testimony with the friends and family of Dudley George done just after Ipperwash happened.

What the OPP did that night was against not just Canadian law, but international law. They not only shot up the protestors, who the police have been unable to prove were armed, but then did their level best to deny them medical attention.

Every cop who fired a gun that night should be tried for attempted murder. Every cop on duty that night should be fired.


Donny_Brasco @ Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:55 pm

(The London Free Press)
PUBLICATION: The London Free Press
DATE: 2004.09.30
SECTION: City &Region
Justice Sidney Linden will deliver his decision Oct. 12 on release of a mystery tape that's been described as "explosive" evidence in the shooting of native protester Dudley George.
Linden, who heads the Ipperwash inquiry into the 1995 killing, heard hours of impassionedarguments yesterday on whether the tape should be immediately released or made public later.
Lawyers for several members of George's family and the Chiefs of Ontario have said the tape is so important it needs to be made public now.
It's been reported the tape contains a conversation between a senior OPP officer at Ipperwash the night George was shot and a colleague at Queen's Park.
Lawyers at the inquiry have had the tape for weeks, but are prohibited by inquiry rules from releasing it to the public.
Originally expected to be heard behind closed doors, arguments on the issue yesterday were opened to the public after a lawyer for the province objected to a closed session.
Linden ruled the submissions would be heard publicly except portions that needed to refer specifically to the contents of the tape.
Murray Klippenstein, a George family lawyer, argued it's unfair to native witnesses to keep the tape under wraps.
"The family believes that the story or evidence that is coming out now cannot adequately describe to the public what is really important and what really went on," he said.
To the George family, the judicial inquiry is looking like a drama on stage "where only one−half of the curtains have been pulled back," he said.
Linden said the tape will be made public at the inquiry, it's only a question of when.
Arguing against immediate release, OPP lawyer Mark Sandler said the tape should be released when it can be put in the proper context, not just argued in the media.
Peter Downard, lawyer for former premier Mike Harris, said if the tape is released now, lawyers should be able to release other documents to show what the tape means.
Yesterday, native Marlin Simon testified tension steadily escalated between police and natives when Ipperwash Provincial Park was occupied by a group of natives in September 1995.
When the natives moved in, they were given keys to park buildings by provincial staff, he said.
About a dozen OPP were in the park when the natives first cut a chain and drove in.
Initially, police told park visitors to get out, but didn't tell the natives they were trespassing, Simon testified.
When police didn't leave the park later that night, Simon said another native, Roderick George, told police they had a deadline to get out.
After time ran out and they were still there, he took a stick and smashed the window of a police cruiser. The officers then left, Simon said.
The natives were armed with sticks, pipes and baseball bats, he said, but had no guns.
Simon described how the next day a group of natives were sitting on picnic tables in a parking lot outside the park when an officer drove up and told them they had to leave.
Simon said the officer looked like Sgt. Kenneth Deane, who was later convicted of criminal negligence causing death in George's shooting and resigned from the OPP.
Simon said the natives refused to leave the park and the officer jumped back into his cruiser and rammed the picnic table with people on it.
Simon said he and some others responded by pushing the table back on top of the cruiser.
Others threw rocks at police and they retreated.
Police later returned in a formation, some with batons.


Rev_Blair @ Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:03 pm

The picnic tables came up in the NewsWorld thing too. The cops later came and loaded them onto a flatbed truck and hauled them away. A couple members of the press found the tables later and filmed the damage to them. Removing those tables unofficially is tampering with evidence. Ramming a picnic table that people (some only children) are sitting on is an act of endangerment at best, attempted murder at worst.

Mike Harris' lawyer is looking pretty nervous right now.


Donny_Brasco @ Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:37 pm

These illegal wiretaps are whats is going to hang the OPP. I can't wait till it all gets released. very afraid of your government and the police.

Ipperwash News Article. Uncovering the coverups.