Liberal camp set 'to blow very shortly'
ridenrain @ Wed May 16, 2007 6:09 am
I guess you can take the liberal out of the muck but you can't take the muck out of the liberal.
$1:
Kennedy supporters accused of dirty tricks as party tries to have more women elected
John Ivison, National Post
Published: Wednesday, May 16, 2007
OTTAWA - Marva Wisdom would have been Stephane Dion's ideal candidate as part of his drive to ensure that one-third of Liberals running at the next election are women: she is young, black, smart, with a long background in the party as its national policy chair. Unfortunately, for Ms. Wisdom -- and perhaps Mr. Dion -- she lost the nomination for the riding of Guelph to lawyer Frank Valeriote.
The race is becoming the focal point for brewing resentment within the party aimed at former leadership candidate Gerard Kennedy. A number of senior figures in the Liberal Party say Kennedy supporters are doing their best to ensure the nomination process works to his advantage, with a view to his becoming leader when Mr. Dion steps down -- a charge Mr. Kennedy denies.
In Guelph, one Liberal said, Mr. Kennedy was supported during the leadership by the riding's retiring MP, Brenda Chamberlain, who in turn supported Mr. Valeriote. No abuses are alleged but it is pointed out that Mr. Kennedy is in charge of election readiness for the party, with influence, if no formal involvement in nominations. For his part, Mr. Kennedy says he doesn't know Mr. Valeriote and that he has not been involved in a single nomination race.
Mr. Kennedy denies that he is organizing for next time, says his team's behaviour has been "exemplary" and dismisses the criticism as "undisciplined and silly."
"You are being misinformed -- beyond the pale. I was in Mr. Ignatieff 's position after the provincial leadership and when [now Premier Dalton] McGuinty had a tough election in 1999. I supported him but if I was of that character, it would have been quite different. I have a track record that is precisely the opposite [of what is being suggested]."
Caucus members who supported Mr. Kennedy acknowledge they are still loyal to their candidate but claim that supporters from all sides are grumbling that they should be better represented. "If all camps are a little disappointed, it probably means all are being treated pretty fairly," he said.
The Kennedy people may feel they have a legitimate right to stay battle sharp in case a leadership contest should creep up on them. But it is clearly causing considerable resentment among supporters of other candidates, particularly Mr. Ignatieff, who has specifically told his team that Mr. Dion won fair and square and now deserves their backing.
Ms. Wisdom would not be drawn on the Kennedy camp's involvement but said her nomination experience had taught her how much work needs to be done in terms of "opening up the party and moving away from the old boys' club."
Others are less diplomatic. Charles Coffey, a life-long Liberal and former senior vice-president at Royal Bank, said he felt Ms. Wisdom was treated "despicably" and was so furious he was thinking of ripping up his party membership.
Another senior Liberal said Guelph represents a pattern of behaviour. "It is ugly stuff and it will blow very shortly because there is too much tension building."
A number of Liberals said that, while the camps supporting Bob Rae and Michael Ignatieff have disbanded and thrown their weight behind Mr. Dion, Mr. Kennedy's backers remain active. One source said Scarborough Southwest, which will be vacated by Tom Wappel at the next election, and London Fanshawe are ridings where the Kennedy camp is resisting attempts by the leadership to appoint candidates in order to get his own loyalists nominated. The Liberal Party refused to comment on the issue -- likely because it plans to unveil up to 25 women appointees in the near future and have Mr. Dion tour the ridings to meet them. But it was suggested by one Liberal that ethnic voters in Scarborough who backed Mr. Kennedy in the leadership race are now pressuring him to oppose an appointment, even if the candidate is an ethnic woman.
One Liberal who was neutral in the leadership race said that, the day after the convention, Kennedy supporters set about preparing for the next one. "It's quite shocking and now it's easy to discern why only one third of his former colleagues from Queen's Park supported him," the Liberal said.
One MP complained the Kennedy team is trying to use nomination battles to build loyalty in the future. "Stephane has done an incredible job in trying to reach out [to former leadership camps]. He is a very genuine, sincere person. But the people he's trusting are the wrong people."
John Ivison, National Post
Published: Wednesday, May 16, 2007
OTTAWA - Marva Wisdom would have been Stephane Dion's ideal candidate as part of his drive to ensure that one-third of Liberals running at the next election are women: she is young, black, smart, with a long background in the party as its national policy chair. Unfortunately, for Ms. Wisdom -- and perhaps Mr. Dion -- she lost the nomination for the riding of Guelph to lawyer Frank Valeriote.
The race is becoming the focal point for brewing resentment within the party aimed at former leadership candidate Gerard Kennedy. A number of senior figures in the Liberal Party say Kennedy supporters are doing their best to ensure the nomination process works to his advantage, with a view to his becoming leader when Mr. Dion steps down -- a charge Mr. Kennedy denies.
In Guelph, one Liberal said, Mr. Kennedy was supported during the leadership by the riding's retiring MP, Brenda Chamberlain, who in turn supported Mr. Valeriote. No abuses are alleged but it is pointed out that Mr. Kennedy is in charge of election readiness for the party, with influence, if no formal involvement in nominations. For his part, Mr. Kennedy says he doesn't know Mr. Valeriote and that he has not been involved in a single nomination race.
Mr. Kennedy denies that he is organizing for next time, says his team's behaviour has been "exemplary" and dismisses the criticism as "undisciplined and silly."
"You are being misinformed -- beyond the pale. I was in Mr. Ignatieff 's position after the provincial leadership and when [now Premier Dalton] McGuinty had a tough election in 1999. I supported him but if I was of that character, it would have been quite different. I have a track record that is precisely the opposite [of what is being suggested]."
Caucus members who supported Mr. Kennedy acknowledge they are still loyal to their candidate but claim that supporters from all sides are grumbling that they should be better represented. "If all camps are a little disappointed, it probably means all are being treated pretty fairly," he said.
The Kennedy people may feel they have a legitimate right to stay battle sharp in case a leadership contest should creep up on them. But it is clearly causing considerable resentment among supporters of other candidates, particularly Mr. Ignatieff, who has specifically told his team that Mr. Dion won fair and square and now deserves their backing.
Ms. Wisdom would not be drawn on the Kennedy camp's involvement but said her nomination experience had taught her how much work needs to be done in terms of "opening up the party and moving away from the old boys' club."
Others are less diplomatic. Charles Coffey, a life-long Liberal and former senior vice-president at Royal Bank, said he felt Ms. Wisdom was treated "despicably" and was so furious he was thinking of ripping up his party membership.
Another senior Liberal said Guelph represents a pattern of behaviour. "It is ugly stuff and it will blow very shortly because there is too much tension building."
A number of Liberals said that, while the camps supporting Bob Rae and Michael Ignatieff have disbanded and thrown their weight behind Mr. Dion, Mr. Kennedy's backers remain active. One source said Scarborough Southwest, which will be vacated by Tom Wappel at the next election, and London Fanshawe are ridings where the Kennedy camp is resisting attempts by the leadership to appoint candidates in order to get his own loyalists nominated. The Liberal Party refused to comment on the issue -- likely because it plans to unveil up to 25 women appointees in the near future and have Mr. Dion tour the ridings to meet them. But it was suggested by one Liberal that ethnic voters in Scarborough who backed Mr. Kennedy in the leadership race are now pressuring him to oppose an appointment, even if the candidate is an ethnic woman.
One Liberal who was neutral in the leadership race said that, the day after the convention, Kennedy supporters set about preparing for the next one. "It's quite shocking and now it's easy to discern why only one third of his former colleagues from Queen's Park supported him," the Liberal said.
One MP complained the Kennedy team is trying to use nomination battles to build loyalty in the future. "Stephane has done an incredible job in trying to reach out [to former leadership camps]. He is a very genuine, sincere person. But the people he's trusting are the wrong people."
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news ... 8d73d6&p=2
Delwin @ Wed May 16, 2007 7:17 am
ridenrain ridenrain:
I guess you can take the liberal out of the muck but you can't take the muck out of the liberal.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news ... 8d73d6&p=2
Well let's see:$1:
Kennedy supporters accused of dirty tricks as party tries to have more women elected
John Ivison, National Post
Published: Wednesday, May 16, 2007
OTTAWA - Marva Wisdom would have been Stephane Dion's ideal candidate as part of his drive to ensure that one-third of Liberals running at the next election are women: she is young, black, smart, with a long background in the party as its national policy chair. Unfortunately, for Ms. Wisdom -- and perhaps Mr. Dion -- she lost the nomination for the riding of Guelph to lawyer Frank Valeriote.
The race is becoming the focal point for brewing resentment within the party aimed at former leadership candidate Gerard Kennedy. A number of senior figures in the Liberal Party say Kennedy supporters are doing their best to ensure the nomination process works to his advantage, with a view to his becoming leader when Mr. Dion steps down -- a charge Mr. Kennedy denies.
In Guelph, one Liberal said, Mr. Kennedy was supported during the leadership by the riding's retiring MP, Brenda Chamberlain, who in turn supported Mr. Valeriote. No abuses are alleged but it is pointed out that Mr. Kennedy is in charge of election readiness for the party, with influence, if no formal involvement in nominations. For his part, Mr. Kennedy says he doesn't know Mr. Valeriote and that he has not been involved in a single nomination race.
Mr. Kennedy denies that he is organizing for next time, says his team's behaviour has been "exemplary" and dismisses the criticism as "undisciplined and silly."
"You are being misinformed -- beyond the pale. I was in Mr. Ignatieff 's position after the provincial leadership and when [now Premier Dalton] McGuinty had a tough election in 1999. I supported him but if I was of that character, it would have been quite different. I have a track record that is precisely the opposite [of what is being suggested]."
Caucus members who supported Mr. Kennedy acknowledge they are still loyal to their candidate but claim that supporters from all sides are grumbling that they should be better represented. "If all camps are a little disappointed, it probably means all are being treated pretty fairly," he said.
The Kennedy people may feel they have a legitimate right to stay battle sharp in case a leadership contest should creep up on them. But it is clearly causing considerable resentment among supporters of other candidates, particularly Mr. Ignatieff, who has specifically told his team that Mr. Dion won fair and square and now deserves their backing.
Ms. Wisdom would not be drawn on the Kennedy camp's involvement but said her nomination experience had taught her how much work needs to be done in terms of "opening up the party and moving away from the old boys' club."
Others are less diplomatic. Charles Coffey, a life-long Liberal and former senior vice-president at Royal Bank, said he felt Ms. Wisdom was treated "despicably" and was so furious he was thinking of ripping up his party membership.
Another senior Liberal said Guelph represents a pattern of behaviour. "It is ugly stuff and it will blow very shortly because there is too much tension building."
A number of Liberals said that, while the camps supporting Bob Rae and Michael Ignatieff have disbanded and thrown their weight behind Mr. Dion, Mr. Kennedy's backers remain active. One source said Scarborough Southwest, which will be vacated by Tom Wappel at the next election, and London Fanshawe are ridings where the Kennedy camp is resisting attempts by the leadership to appoint candidates in order to get his own loyalists nominated. The Liberal Party refused to comment on the issue -- likely because it plans to unveil up to 25 women appointees in the near future and have Mr. Dion tour the ridings to meet them. But it was suggested by one Liberal that ethnic voters in Scarborough who backed Mr. Kennedy in the leadership race are now pressuring him to oppose an appointment, even if the candidate is an ethnic woman.
One Liberal who was neutral in the leadership race said that, the day after the convention, Kennedy supporters set about preparing for the next one. "It's quite shocking and now it's easy to discern why only one third of his former colleagues from Queen's Park supported him," the Liberal said.
the Kennedy team is trying to use nomination battles to build loyalty in the future. "Stephane has done an incredible job in trying to reach out [to former leadership camps]. He is a very genuine, sincere person. But the people he's trusting are the wrong people."
John Ivison, National Post
Published: Wednesday, May 16, 2007
OTTAWA - Marva Wisdom would have been Stephane Dion's ideal candidate as part of his drive to ensure that one-third of Liberals running at the next election are women: she is young, black, smart, with a long background in the party as its national policy chair. Unfortunately, for Ms. Wisdom -- and perhaps Mr. Dion -- she lost the nomination for the riding of Guelph to lawyer Frank Valeriote.
The race is becoming the focal point for brewing resentment within the party aimed at former leadership candidate Gerard Kennedy. A number of senior figures in the Liberal Party say Kennedy supporters are doing their best to ensure the nomination process works to his advantage, with a view to his becoming leader when Mr. Dion steps down -- a charge Mr. Kennedy denies.
In Guelph, one Liberal said, Mr. Kennedy was supported during the leadership by the riding's retiring MP, Brenda Chamberlain, who in turn supported Mr. Valeriote. No abuses are alleged but it is pointed out that Mr. Kennedy is in charge of election readiness for the party, with influence, if no formal involvement in nominations. For his part, Mr. Kennedy says he doesn't know Mr. Valeriote and that he has not been involved in a single nomination race.
Mr. Kennedy denies that he is organizing for next time, says his team's behaviour has been "exemplary" and dismisses the criticism as "undisciplined and silly."
"You are being misinformed -- beyond the pale. I was in Mr. Ignatieff 's position after the provincial leadership and when [now Premier Dalton] McGuinty had a tough election in 1999. I supported him but if I was of that character, it would have been quite different. I have a track record that is precisely the opposite [of what is being suggested]."
Caucus members who supported Mr. Kennedy acknowledge they are still loyal to their candidate but claim that supporters from all sides are grumbling that they should be better represented. "If all camps are a little disappointed, it probably means all are being treated pretty fairly," he said.
The Kennedy people may feel they have a legitimate right to stay battle sharp in case a leadership contest should creep up on them. But it is clearly causing considerable resentment among supporters of other candidates, particularly Mr. Ignatieff, who has specifically told his team that Mr. Dion won fair and square and now deserves their backing.
Ms. Wisdom would not be drawn on the Kennedy camp's involvement but said her nomination experience had taught her how much work needs to be done in terms of "opening up the party and moving away from the old boys' club."
Others are less diplomatic. Charles Coffey, a life-long Liberal and former senior vice-president at Royal Bank, said he felt Ms. Wisdom was treated "despicably" and was so furious he was thinking of ripping up his party membership.
Another senior Liberal said Guelph represents a pattern of behaviour. "It is ugly stuff and it will blow very shortly because there is too much tension building."
A number of Liberals said that, while the camps supporting Bob Rae and Michael Ignatieff have disbanded and thrown their weight behind Mr. Dion, Mr. Kennedy's backers remain active. One source said Scarborough Southwest, which will be vacated by Tom Wappel at the next election, and London Fanshawe are ridings where the Kennedy camp is resisting attempts by the leadership to appoint candidates in order to get his own loyalists nominated. The Liberal Party refused to comment on the issue -- likely because it plans to unveil up to 25 women appointees in the near future and have Mr. Dion tour the ridings to meet them. But it was suggested by one Liberal that ethnic voters in Scarborough who backed Mr. Kennedy in the leadership race are now pressuring him to oppose an appointment, even if the candidate is an ethnic woman.
One Liberal who was neutral in the leadership race said that, the day after the convention, Kennedy supporters set about preparing for the next one. "It's quite shocking and now it's easy to discern why only one third of his former colleagues from Queen's Park supported him," the Liberal said.
the Kennedy team is trying to use nomination battles to build loyalty in the future. "Stephane has done an incredible job in trying to reach out [to former leadership camps]. He is a very genuine, sincere person. But the people he's trusting are the wrong people."
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news ... 8d73d6&p=2
$1:
A number of senior figures in the Liberal Party say :
In Guelph, one Liberal said:
One Liberal who was neutral in the leadership race said that:
the Liberal said:
One MP complained:
In Guelph, one Liberal said:
One Liberal who was neutral in the leadership race said that:
the Liberal said:
One MP complained:
Well, that settles it, how can all of these anonymous sources be wrong ?
Marva Wisdom wrote:
$1:
I would also call for Guelph Liberals to now unite behind our nominee, Frank Valeriote, and ensure he keeps the riding painted Red.
sasquatch2 @ Wed May 16, 2007 7:35 am
This sort behaviour is pretty typical of LIBRANOs....their priority always has been and always will be the acquisition of power however petty. Wahtever else even i admit the LIBRANO's are perhaps Canada's most adept politicians----this explains the former heavy hitters sitting out this period of time in the wilderness. I would interpret their judgement is that they have no chance of preventing a Tory majority in the next election and seek to delay it as long as possible to preserve their tenuous influence in parliament.
Delwin @ Wed May 16, 2007 7:39 am
Your right, that's why the party was split up along ideological lines, reshuffled, reassembled, reformed and is on the verge of spilitting again along ideological lines. Oh wait, that was the Cons, nevermind.
Patrick_Ross @ Wed May 16, 2007 9:50 am
Delwin Delwin:
Well let's see:
Well, that settles it, how can all of these anonymous sources be wrong ?
Marva Wisdom wrote:
$1:
A number of senior figures in the Liberal Party say :
In Guelph, one Liberal said:
One Liberal who was neutral in the leadership race said that:
the Liberal said:
One MP complained:
In Guelph, one Liberal said:
One Liberal who was neutral in the leadership race said that:
the Liberal said:
One MP complained:
Well, that settles it, how can all of these anonymous sources be wrong ?
Marva Wisdom wrote:
$1:
I would also call for Guelph Liberals to now unite behind our nominee, Frank Valeriote, and ensure he keeps the riding painted Red.
I think the bigger question is this: if the Liberal party isn't suppressing dissent within its ranks, why do these individuals feel the need to comment under anonymity?
hwacker @ Wed May 16, 2007 10:05 am
Delwin Delwin:
Your right, that's why the party was split up along ideological lines, reshuffled, reassembled, reformed and is on the verge of spilitting again along ideological lines. Oh wait, that was the Cons, nevermind.
no, it's just the degree of how much we stick it up the liberals ass, oh wait that's the liberals too
Delwin @ Wed May 16, 2007 10:11 am
Patrick_Ross Patrick_Ross:
Delwin Delwin:
Well let's see:
Well, that settles it, how can all of these anonymous sources be wrong ?
Marva Wisdom wrote:
$1:
A number of senior figures in the Liberal Party say :
In Guelph, one Liberal said:
One Liberal who was neutral in the leadership race said that:
the Liberal said:
One MP complained:
In Guelph, one Liberal said:
One Liberal who was neutral in the leadership race said that:
the Liberal said:
One MP complained:
Well, that settles it, how can all of these anonymous sources be wrong ?
Marva Wisdom wrote:
$1:
I would also call for Guelph Liberals to now unite behind our nominee, Frank Valeriote, and ensure he keeps the riding painted Red.
I think the bigger question is this: if the Liberal party isn't suppressing dissent within its ranks, why do these individuals feel the need to comment under anonymity?
Patrick_Ross @ Wed May 16, 2007 12:10 pm
Riiiiiiiiiiight. 
Or, maybe the investigative journalist just made it up. You should try that line next.
themasta @ Wed May 16, 2007 12:15 pm
I don't see what the problem is...a nominee didn't make the cut, what's the big deal? It happens all the time.
Delwin @ Wed May 16, 2007 12:20 pm
Patrick_Ross Patrick_Ross:
:roll: Riiiiiiiiiiight.
Or, maybe the investigative journalist just made it up. You should try that line next.
He might as well have, picking three random "Liberals", quoting their opinions, and making it into a story is hardly journalism. Who the hell are these people ? Why are they relevant. I'm sure I could find three random party members with opposing views right on this forum. I wouldn't expect it to get published though. Must have been a slow news day.
Or, maybe the investigative journalist just made it up. You should try that line next.
Patrick_Ross @ Wed May 16, 2007 12:22 pm
So, hold on a second. You're suggesting that the media is suddenly picking on the Liberals?
Surely you jest.
Delwin @ Wed May 16, 2007 12:27 pm
Here's some journalism about the author, it's true because they told me so:
http://thelink.theorem.ca/view.php?aid=38943
Patrick_Ross @ Wed May 16, 2007 12:56 pm
So, apparently someone writing in a University newspaper writing about the audacity of someone to disagree with the "environmental" lobby and their fellow journalists constitutes journalism?
Having written for a university newspaper, and seeing what so often passes for opinion writing there, I'm far from impressed, frankly.
It's amazing that little piece actually went to press considering the following conundrum:
Would Ivison not be even more of a robot if he simply went along with the rest of the media?
Now, that being said, I know that it really irks all the partisan Liberals that there are journalists who will actually write something other than a partisan slam on the Conservative party. I'm sure many of your friends view it as tantamount to treason.
Yet, if Ivison's claims that there is dissention within the Liberal ranks is so non-credible, then what do you make of this:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... TopStories
$1:
Dion biography sparks Liberal infighting
A new biography of Stephane Dion has sparked a firestorm within his party over suggestions that the Liberal leader's former rivals might be plotting against him.
In "Against the Current," (Viking Canada) author and Toronto Star reporter Linda Diebel quotes the party's national director Jamie Carroll as saying that he's worried about all-out drive against Dion.
"What they do in public doesn't bother me," Carroll said in reference to former leadership candidates Michael Ignatieff, Bob Rae and Gerard Kennedy.
"It's the s--- they do behind the scenes -- which I may not know they're doing -- that keeps me up at night."
Dion refused Tuesday to fire Carroll but did criticize his hand-picked choice for the party's top administrative post.
"It was an inaccurate and an immature comment and I will not tolerate that,'' Dion told reporters.
"He made a mistake and he will not repeat it.''
Deputy leader Michael Ignatieff admitted Monday that he'd made his "views very clear" to Dion but downplayed the whole ordeal.
"Look, I get up in the morning, I show up, I prepare for (question period), I do my job. We've united the party. All this stuff is kind of tired rehash gossip from a leadership campaign that's over," he said.
But sources told The Canadian Press over the weekend that Ignatieff was pushing Dion to have Carroll fired.
"He (Ignatieff) was forceful that it was his view that (Carroll) should go," said one well-placed insider.
Diebel also quotes Carroll as wondering if Dion "may not have been a little too good to his former competitors" in agreeing to give them key roles within the Liberal party.
Dion dismissed suggestions Tuesday that Carroll, 27, could no longer unify the Liberals.
"He will play this role because he's very good and we could not condemn somebody for one mistake,'' said Dion.
"It's another way I want to be leader. Many mistakes may happen. I want mistakes to be corrected and I want to work as a team. It's what I have shown as a leader.''
Carroll was a key component of Dion's leadership victory, lending him $30,000 to fund the campaign.
A new biography of Stephane Dion has sparked a firestorm within his party over suggestions that the Liberal leader's former rivals might be plotting against him.
In "Against the Current," (Viking Canada) author and Toronto Star reporter Linda Diebel quotes the party's national director Jamie Carroll as saying that he's worried about all-out drive against Dion.
"What they do in public doesn't bother me," Carroll said in reference to former leadership candidates Michael Ignatieff, Bob Rae and Gerard Kennedy.
"It's the s--- they do behind the scenes -- which I may not know they're doing -- that keeps me up at night."
Dion refused Tuesday to fire Carroll but did criticize his hand-picked choice for the party's top administrative post.
"It was an inaccurate and an immature comment and I will not tolerate that,'' Dion told reporters.
"He made a mistake and he will not repeat it.''
Deputy leader Michael Ignatieff admitted Monday that he'd made his "views very clear" to Dion but downplayed the whole ordeal.
"Look, I get up in the morning, I show up, I prepare for (question period), I do my job. We've united the party. All this stuff is kind of tired rehash gossip from a leadership campaign that's over," he said.
But sources told The Canadian Press over the weekend that Ignatieff was pushing Dion to have Carroll fired.
"He (Ignatieff) was forceful that it was his view that (Carroll) should go," said one well-placed insider.
Diebel also quotes Carroll as wondering if Dion "may not have been a little too good to his former competitors" in agreeing to give them key roles within the Liberal party.
Dion dismissed suggestions Tuesday that Carroll, 27, could no longer unify the Liberals.
"He will play this role because he's very good and we could not condemn somebody for one mistake,'' said Dion.
"It's another way I want to be leader. Many mistakes may happen. I want mistakes to be corrected and I want to work as a team. It's what I have shown as a leader.''
Carroll was a key component of Dion's leadership victory, lending him $30,000 to fund the campaign.
Yep. Let's not believe John Ivison. Let's not believe CTV, or the Canadian Press. Let's certainly not believe any of the angry Liberal party members in Halton, who recently discovered that Garth Turner was acclaimed as their candidate in a secret late-night nomination meeting!
They're all robots, you see.
Rihx @ Wed May 16, 2007 2:53 pm
I know I will probably get attacked for saying so but the liberal party has been in turmoil for a long time. The only thing holding it together was Chretiens iron fist and complete lack of policy.
There is only so long you can try to cling to a memory. Truedeu Mania ran it's course a long time ago and the LPoC really has no idea what to do with itself.
They need a leader, unfortunatly for them the LPoC's history as "The Natural Governing Party" attracts people only interested in power. The party needs to crumble like the old PC's did in order to find themselves again.
Clogeroo @ Wed May 16, 2007 3:02 pm
$1:
They're all robots, you see.
That gave me an idea.
