welfare
Narissa @ Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:45 am
$1:
I used to think any idiot could put up drywall until I saw some idiots trying...it turns out some idiots can't, which is where the good taper comes in. Carpentry, painting, drywalling, insulating landscaping etc. are less of an issue here because you can do the work legally without a ticket.
Actually any 'idiot' CAN put up drywall - A person with drive, and who takes pride in their work can do anything they put their mind too. I built, the bathroom below - myself. I'm 4' nuthin, with a willingness to learn and TRY - that's all it takes to be successful. I'll admit it's not easy, but with patience it can be learned.
BTW - None of my plumbing leaks, and I haven't had any electrical fires.
I see the point you're trying to make - But really, come on now, what's worse sitting on your ass and getting paid next to nothing, or actually working for a cheque. Even minimum wage is more than welfare.
Twila,
So true, Daycare subsidy can be more work than it's worth at times - I too had a subsidy when my boys were in Daycare, I gave it up because I was showing up to work late, or leaving early to 'fill out paperwork' and it didn't reflect well with my employer.
$1:
I think we need more funding for more aid workers and social workers. Maybe if their case loads were so heavy they could get to the details of individuals collecting.
Couldn't agree more! More home visits should be necessary as well.
Rev_Blair @ Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:07 am
There's a big difference between working on your own house and doing work on somebody else's in a manner that is quick and efficient enough to make money, Narissa. That doesn't mean it can't be learned, but some people...idiots...only want to take shortcuts. That's why the renovation industry has such a bad name. Watch Holmes on Homes sometime...he deals with the mess the idiots leave behind.
Minimum and low-wage jobs do not really pay better than welfare either. To work in construction you have to buy clothes, safety equipment, transportation, and tools. All that and the work can be spotty or go away completely if the economy takes a dip.
The solution isn't to just accept that people will sit on welfare though, the solution is to pay people decently and give them ways to move up...take away the disincentives that we've built into the system.
Narissa @ Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:25 am
$1:
There's a big difference between working on your own house and doing work on somebody else's in a manner that is quick and efficient enough to make money, Narissa. That doesn't mean it can't be learned, but some people...idiots...only want to take shortcuts. That's why the renovation industry has such a bad name. Watch Holmes on Homes sometime...he deals with the mess the idiots leave behind.
I do watch holmes on homes - nuff said, you win on that point.
$1:
Minimum and low-wage jobs do not really pay better than welfare either. To work in construction you have to buy clothes, safety equipment, transportation, and tools. All that and the work can be spotty or go away completely if the economy takes a dip.
[size=18]A minimum wage job, doesn't stay at minimum wage for the entire time you work there. Stick it out, prove yourself, and you'll be given raises. My husband and I both started our jobs, when we moved here, at minimum wage, he a surveyor, and myself a property manager....Things were very tight, but we managed by buying all of our 'work clothes' at second hand clothing stores, his workboots were a hardship to buy, but his employer advanced him the money to pay for them and deducted it from his vacation pay. We've both been at our respective positions for 6 years, and the dedication, loyalty and hard work have paid off, as we now earn a decent wage, own our own home, two vehicles - etc. Sure he gets laid off from time to time, but we manage our finances well enough to deal with it when that occurs.
Had we figured we'd be better off collecting welfare than 'sinking' to minimum wage jobs- where do you think we'd be now? There's just no room for advancement if you give up before you try.[/size]
Ralph @ Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:39 am
I have seen the both sides of the welfare situation.
The truly needy.
And the third and forth generation parasites that put the system under such a strain.
We had a mail strike a few years back and they set up a system whereby the individual could go and pick up their check in person with the proper ID.
There were so many checks left unclaimed that it sparked an investigation.
The investigation proved that many of the addresses were false and some were going to the same address under as many as 15 different names.
The people on welfare and there originations put up such a fuss that the investigation was stopped.
These are the people that should be stopped,
Give the money you save to the people that truly need it. Single women with children, the mentally challenged, and many more groups more deserving that could use the money .
I love to help but lets get the help to the right people.
Rev_Blair @ Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:00 am
In a lot of jobs you only see a raise if the minimum wage goes up or you get a promotion, Narissa. There are only so many promotions to go around, especially in small business.
I've never been on welfare, but I know people that have. Some were (and are) taking advantage of the system, but most are looking for a way out. The lack of help provided by welfare and other government agencies astonishes me. The lack of initiative by our governments (all three levels) is ridiculous. Calls from the far right to institute slave labour programs and/or let people starve are brutally simplistic and stupid.
Welfare is a problem. Instead of trying to solve the problem the general attitudes expressed are either, "Give 'em nothing, or, "Give 'em everything." Neither of those stances solves, or even tries to identify, the issues that lead to people being on welfare in the first place. Real solutions on how to get people off of welfare are never offered.
Narissa @ Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:26 am
Both my husband and I have never been 'promoted' - we do, annually, request a raise from our employers, and because we are hard-working, respected, employees - we've always gotten them. If you don't ask, chances are you won't get a raise.
I've known many people who have been able to get off of welfare. I will say that there needs to be better programs in place for single parents on welfare, who are trying to work, and find care for thier children, and still make enough to live. But for a single person, with no kids, to stay on welfare for more than a few months - there's no reason for that.
Then you get the 'generational recipients' - the one's who are on the system for life, then their children go on the system, because they have no 'work ethic' instilled in them.
Rev_Blair @ Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:12 pm
And still I don't see a suggestion of how to solve the problem.
karra @ Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:40 pm
That's because there is no solution per se. It haunts every democratic society.
Mike Harris had the right idea - workfare, and that's just about as close to a solution as can be found anywhere, and it had its problems.
Society as a whole doesn't mind helping those who truly require it - ensuring the validity of claims is where the problem lies, followed by appropriate investigations and evidence gathering (including the use of private industry) and prosecution. However, the investigation of fraudulent claims is rife with inept bureaucrats frustrated in their efforts and overwhelming case loads. When clear prosecutable cases are presented as crown briefs it is unusual for a trial to take place usually due to costs and time constraints.
Heaven forbid a provincial government establish and fund a highly mobile professional investigation team at a cost of perhaps 5 - 7 million per year (Ontario) to realise savings from fraudulent claims alone of 25 million plus - guess they haven't studied Keynesian economics.
karra @ Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:57 pm
$1:
Monkeys test 'hardworking gene'
By Richard Black
BBC science correspondent
Scientists in the United States have found a way of turning lazy monkeys into workaholics using gene therapy.
Usually monkeys work hard only when they know a reward is coming, but the animals given this treatment did their best all the time.
Monkeys are rather like people in their approach to work - at least, those who live in a laboratory and learn to press levers for rewards of food and water.
They concentrate on their task only when the moment of delivery approaches.
Researchers at the National Institute of Mental Health near Washington DC, led by Dr Barry Richmond, have now developed a genetic treatment which changes their work ethic markedly.
"Normal monkeys and people procrastinate - tend not to work very well when they have a lot of time to get the job done, and work better when the reward is nearer in time," Dr Richmond says.
"The monkeys under the influence of the treatment don't procrastinate."
The treatment consists of blocking an important brain chemical - dopamine.
After about 10 weeks it had worn off, and the monkeys were back to their usual unmotivated selves.
Dr Richmond believes treatments based on this concept could one day benefit people with conditions like depression, where motivation has largely disappeared from their lives.
But for the rest of us, the day when such treatments fall into the hands of our bosses may be one we would prefer to put off.
E-mail this to a friend
By Richard Black
BBC science correspondent
Scientists in the United States have found a way of turning lazy monkeys into workaholics using gene therapy.
Usually monkeys work hard only when they know a reward is coming, but the animals given this treatment did their best all the time.
Monkeys are rather like people in their approach to work - at least, those who live in a laboratory and learn to press levers for rewards of food and water.
They concentrate on their task only when the moment of delivery approaches.
Researchers at the National Institute of Mental Health near Washington DC, led by Dr Barry Richmond, have now developed a genetic treatment which changes their work ethic markedly.
"Normal monkeys and people procrastinate - tend not to work very well when they have a lot of time to get the job done, and work better when the reward is nearer in time," Dr Richmond says.
"The monkeys under the influence of the treatment don't procrastinate."
The treatment consists of blocking an important brain chemical - dopamine.
After about 10 weeks it had worn off, and the monkeys were back to their usual unmotivated selves.
Dr Richmond believes treatments based on this concept could one day benefit people with conditions like depression, where motivation has largely disappeared from their lives.
But for the rest of us, the day when such treatments fall into the hands of our bosses may be one we would prefer to put off.
E-mail this to a friend
Betcha we all know who's gonna call the NAACP long distance from Winnipeg.
Rev_Blair @ Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:46 pm
Investigating crimes, which is fraudulent claims are, does not solve the welfare problem though. You want to go after cheaters, by all means do so. Make sure that the rules aren't forcing people to cheat though...like that pregnant girl who died in Ontario a couple of years back. She was honestly trying to get off of welfare and ended up under house arrest for it.
Which brings us to Mike Harris' slave labour plan. It did nothing to encourage welfare recipients to look for work. In fact by requiring them to do menial work it took away both entry level positions where those people may have been employed (with or without government assistance) and time they should have been using to look for work or get an education. It did nothing to train them or encourage them to better themselves. By cutting benefits, Harris caused more people to become homeless, so even welfare was not available to them.
The assumption behind Harris' plan was that everybody on welfare wanted to be on welfare, was a lazy bum, and should be tossed on humanity's trash heap.
Indelible @ Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:44 pm
heh.....i was joking about the painter drywaller thing....and look at the response it got! lol...
i think that the welfare lazies should be put through a boot camp....heck, to raise money for the program they could make a show like jerry springer and air it on the cbc....where all the guests end up in the boot camp for welfare lazies....
Rev_Blair @ Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:00 am
She's that pregnant girl who died that I mentioned, for those of you who don't want to know. Check out Avro's link...it's an important one.
Twila @ Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:09 am
Is it even possible to o.d on anti depressants?
Rev_Blair @ Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:14 am
Apparently. She was severely underweight because she couldn't afford to eat properly and her pregnancy had weakened her as well. No doubt those things contributed to her death.