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[QUOTE BY= Rabblewatch]<br /> Hi equation was based upon carbon (life) creating oil.<br /> <br /> He gave an equation, but DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> He understood the question perfectly. You did not. His equation was for the production of Methane, an organic compound. Carbon, hydrocarbons and organic compounds have <b>nothing</b> to do with life or oil.<br /> <br /> Methane on Titan is as natural ocurring as water is here. It is not the result of dinosaurs. It does not indicate the presence of oil.<br /> <br /> H2SO4 (Sulfuric Acid) is a naturally ocurring inorganic substance on Venus. Just as natural as water here.

   

[QUOTE BY= Rabblewatch]<br /> Or are you going to stand up for open public discourse and allow me to speak my sizeable intellect to these downtrodden masses?<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> While your intellect is nowhere nearly as large as your ego, you have not yet resorted to inciting hate speech, spam, or death threats (which are all illegal in this country and others). We're certainly not going to change the rules just for you. *shrug*<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]<br /> For myself, I LOVE talking to Conservatives and Republicans. <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Out of curiousity, have you spent any time on freerepublic? They are a right-wing site, and rumour has it they are quite fast and loose with the bannings. <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]<br /> Then *WHY* do I come here daily and have people try and kick my ass?<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I often wonder exactly that. <img align="absmiddle" src='images/smilies/smile.gif'><br /> <br /> [QUOTE]<br /> YOU NEED DEBATE. DEBATE IS DEMOCRACY.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> That is *Exactly* why you have not run afoul of our site rules. While you have come close a couple of times, for the most part, you are well-behaved. I think there was even a thread where you went the entire time without swearing! If you can debate without shouting or resorting to insults, then you might even be a valued member here.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]<br /> And for my own good will, I always need to have my own ideas challenged nonstop. That's the only way to KEEP IT REAL, and on the odd occasion, a *few* of the posters here do pose a challenge (seldom, but true).[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I agree entirely. You yourself are the biggest challenge I've faced, akin to a brick wall; one of these days I swear I will get you to concede a point. <img align="absmiddle" src='images/smilies/smile.gif'> <br /> <br /> You would find more people willing to engage you if you were not so antagonistic, however. Rather than "Peak oil is BS!!!!1", you might try "why peak oil is wrong". It's all about tone, really, and yours is not quite bad enough to earn our malice.

   

[QUOTE BY= Dr Caleb]Methane on Titan is as natural ocurring as water is here. It is not the result of dinosaurs. It does not indicate the presence of oil.<br /> <br /> H2SO4 (Sulfuric Acid) is a naturally ocurring inorganic substance on Venus. Just as natural as water here.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> and that's my *exact* point. <br /> <br /> The 'Abiotic Oil' theory has gained further traction for these EXACT reasons. To believe that oil here on earth *only* came from "Dead Dinosaurs", simply doesn't hold as well anymore.<br /> <br /> Thereby Hubberts Peak-Oil theory is on the wane since it was based upon Fossil Fuels.<br /> <br /> The rising theory is that the Earth is generating Oil as a byproduct of deep core thermal activity, the immense pressure is creating oil as a byproduct.<br /> <br /> OIL for all intents and purposes is a RENEWABLE RESOURCE!

   

[QUOTE BY= jesse]Out of curiousity, have you spent any time on freerepublic? They are a right-wing site, and rumour has it they are quite fast and loose with the bannings. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I've been there, and I agree with a lot of things they say. I'm not jazzed over the Creationist arguments and that's when I get 'warned'.<br /> <br /> Libertarianism is my favourite code of conduct. It basically is the ultimate balance of secularism with maximum individual economic freedom.<br /> <br /> Any type of government, whether it's NDP/Conservative/whatever, is a form of control to inhibit the rights of the individual regardless.<br /> <br /> Friends of mine have often stated that "If you gave everyone total freedom...everyone would go nuts and kill everyone else". I'd often reply: "It would get boring after about five minutes."<br /> <br /> Anyone here Remember the whole topless debate in Ontario? Then PC Premier Mike Harris (my hero) was raked over the coals as being the next great-satan of women's rights. So what did Harris do?<br /> <br /> HE LIFTED THE BAN!<br /> <br /> And what did all those TOPLESS protesting women do?<br /> <br /> THEY QUICKLY PUT THEIR SHIRTS BACK ON!<br /> <br /> When was the last time I saw a topless woman in Toronto? Even now with FULL GOVERNMENT LEGAL SUPPORT...these women are as free to show their titties as they'd like: Guess how many?<br /> <br /> NONE.<br /> <br /> Gotta love it! Iron Mike Harris!<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= jesse]<br /> You would find more people willing to engage you if you were not so antagonistic, however. Rather than "Peak oil is BS!!!!1", you might try "why peak oil is wrong". It's all about tone, really, and yours is not quite bad enough to earn our malice. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> You can say 'Peak oil is wrong', and I'll call Peak oil BULLSHIT.<br /> <br /> "Vive Le Canada"?<br /> <br /> VIVE LA DIFFERANCE.

   

A massive oil field was just discovered near Mexico, roughly 900 meters under the sea, containing an estimated 10 billion barrels of crude. Mexico is already the largest oil producer in Latin America with 3.4 million barrels per day, and half of its oil export goes to the US. This can now increase substantially. A third of Mexico's GDP comes from oil.<br /> <br /> What's really interesting is that both the US and Canadian media is surprisingly quiet about this discovery. As if they don't want people to know that there is enough oil for a lot longer than they made us believe. That would lower World oil prices which would negativaly effect the bottomline of US and Canadian oil producers, the unelected leaders of our countries.

   

At the moment we, (the world), use 80 million barrels of oil a day. In 100 days that is 8 billion barrels of oil. So how is 10 billion barrels of oil justification for the comment that peak oil is BS?

   

Did I say that one oil field in Mexico will have to supply the entire World with oil? If not, why do you reply to it?<br /> <br /> Every time I read about the peak oilers, I smile. They have been at it for many years, predicting the end of the World tomorrow. When tomorrow comes, they postpone it a little. They dedicate their lives attending meetings (and paying the cover) where they listen to speech after speech about the end of the World. It sound a lot like the Elvis alive hype. Remember Bill Bixby? I bet he made a handsome sum out of it.<br /> <br /> If oil was about to run out, we would already be using fuel cell cars. The first ever mass produced fuel cell vehicle will be released around 2010 (by Peugeot) but I bet all major auto makers will jumo on the bandwagon once the initial problems are worked out. During the next decade more and more auto makers will switch over to alternative fuel vehicles and the technology will be perfected. As a result, demand for oil will eventually subside.<br /> <br /> One possible alternative fuel is bio Diesel. The next agricultural superpower, Brazil, can produce enough bio fuel for North America. Diesel engines today need very little adjustment to operate on such fuel. In fact, you can put bio Diesel, or cooking oil into a Diesel car and it will run with it. It will pump out some black smoke but it will work. Peak oil in its current form is mostly hype.

   

[QUOTE BY= badsector]<br /> If oil was about to run out, we would already be using fuel cell cars. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> So, what you're saying is you don't know the definition of 'peak oil'.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= badsector]<br /> In fact, you can put bio Diesel, or cooking oil into a Diesel car and it will run with it.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Ummm, no you can't. Go ahead, give it a try. Just with your car, not mine.

   

[QUOTE]So, what you're saying is you don't know the definition of 'peak oil'.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> Yes I do: oil production "peaks" and increasing demand hits it like a freight train. Easily available oil runs out and they have to spend more money to extract what's left, driving up prices. The World runs out of cheap oil and the "end of Suburbia" follows. The entire middle class will set up camp under bridges, highway overpasses and trade their comfy homes for some used cardboard boxes. People must start growing food in their backyards (which doesn't work btw, since backyards typically have a very thin layer of soil on top of a layer of stones, not exactly ideal for agriculture).<br /> <br /> This is what peak oiler say and I am betting that it won't play down this way. First of all, if our World collapses it will be because of the nutbar policies of the neo-con ruling elite. The US government is on the brink of financial bankruptcy. Their military is on a quest to invade more and more oil fields but troop moral is at an all time low and they are already streched to the limit. They have trouble finding new troops now, so they quietly lowered the bar. Next you know, they'll advertise in gay bars. Resistance to the wars is growing at home and W's popularity is at an all time low. The entire US economy is moving to China, while the US government keeps yapping about China's human rights record. Their deficit and debt hits a record every year, but W keeps cutting taxes. Most of US government debts now is owed to Asian (mostly Chinese) banks. Within 10 years, the US will go bankrupt, its currency will sink and the US economy will collapse, taking ours with it. It won't be because of "Peak Oil" just because of "Peak Stupidity". To think about it... whatever will follow after the collapse, it can't be worse than the current ignorant regime. America will then have to change.<br /> <br /> Returning to Peak Oil... it's supply and demand. When the prices go too high, there will be a great demand to change. Demand drives innovation. ALternativ fuels will be used and demand for oil will be gradually reduced. The US economic collapse (above) alone will decrease demand for oil a great deal. Remember the oil crises of the 70s? During the oil embargo, European countries were forced to lower their oil consumption. The result was the emergence of the fuel efficient automobile. European cars today and much smaller and more fuel efficient than North American ones, for that reason. You see, evolution means that hunter and prey evolve together. The same is true for the economy: higher oil prices drive changes in the way we live. Peak oil won't be nothing like the peak oilers imagine.

   

[QUOTE BY= badsector] [QUOTE]So, what you're saying is you don't know the definition of 'peak oil'.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> Yes I do: oil production "peaks" and increasing demand hits it like a freight train. Easily available oil runs out and they have to spend more money to extract what's left, driving up prices. The World runs out of cheap oil and the "end of Suburbia" follows. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Good enough. So then, you believe we'll never run out of oil because it regererates itself? It's one or the other my friend. Ethier we will run out of oil, or we won't. The question is, are we already at the point where no new cheap oil will be found?<br /> <br /> I believe I heard a expert on oil exploration say this morning that 'light sweet' crude has already hit it's peak.

   

I don't know if oil regenerates itself but don't discard the possibility either. I don't believe that oil will peak during the next few years. If oil was so scarce the US wouldn't have spent a trillion bucks to capture them dying oil fields. Corporations like Haliburton told the US government to invade the Middle East because they figured that the price was worth it. <br /> <br /> Also, as I pointed out, demand for oil doesn't go up forever mindlessly. When it gets expensive enough, more emphasize will be placed on fuel efficiency and alternative fuels, so demand will be in line with supply.<br /> <br /> The stock market works mostly on hype. Investors will buy stock that they <b>think</b> will make them money. Companies go into great length to project that image to keep investors interested. Peak Oil is nothing but an extremely well organized hype, designed to spread the rumors that the end of oil is near. If this doesn't drive energy stocks through the roof, nothing will. I am old enough to remember the oil scare of the 70s though. Back them we were told that oil will run out (period) by about today. Apparently it didn't.

   

The wars in the middle east were not just about oil.Iraq switched over to the euro dollar prior to being suckered into Kuwait by the USA, this threatened to collapse the value of the US dollar. The Taliban shut down opium production and refused to give a US natural gas pipeline company (I think it was Unocal) carte blanche right of way through Afghanistan thus fatally delaying Enrons electrical generation facility in India. And let us not forget Israels part in this disaster.<br /> Fossil fuels are the result of millions of years of natural processes and will not be regenerated overnight. Turning crops into fuel would be ok if net energy was possible, that is if you generated more energy than you spent to get the generated energy., The only problem is that it doesn't. Fertilizer takes a lot of fossil fuel inputs to produce and so does farm equipment and farm workers, and that is not even taking into account the amount of energy necessary to make and distribute bio fuel. Fuel cells do not generate net energy. We could move over to regenerative energy sources such as hydrogen, wind and solar energy but this requires extensive retooling of our manufacturing plants and the redesign of our economic infrastructure as well as rethinking our collective life game plans on a global basis before we run out of fossil fuels. If we can't get our so called educated elite, the guys with the Piled Higher and Deeper behind their names), to recognize that steel melts at a certain temperature and that you can't reach that temperature in a high rise fire, then how likely are we to recognize the natural limitations that we are faced with as far as global metabolics are concerned. Our educated elite are cowed and/or stunned and our political elite are ignorant psychopaths! <br /> You are right about the economy being in danger of collapsing but as the economy is a mental construction and has little relationship with the real physical world events it can be made to stumble headlong into oblivion and we have elected the crew of incompetents necessary to oversee this task.

   

[QUOTE]Turning crops into fuel would be ok if net energy was possible, that is if you generated more energy than you spent to get the generated energy.[/QUOTE]<br /> Hey, you were the guy missing on that science class. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/smile.gif' alt='Smile'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/smile.gif' alt='Smile'> Just kidding... You can't ever get more energy out then how much you put in. In the 19th century many investors tried in vain to build a perpetum mobile, but they all failed because of this very simple law.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Fertilizer takes a lot of fossil fuel inputs to produce and so does farm equipment and farm workers, and that is not even taking into account the amount of energy necessary to make and distribute bio fuel[/QUOTE]<br /> Of course, switching over to other fuel involves all areas of life, including farm equipment. In fact, they would be the first to operate on bio fuel since they ususally have Diesel engines and have very easy access to that fuel. It's a simple fact that Peak Oil advocates often overlook. For some reason they chose to argue that all machines involved in bio Diesel production would continue to use conventional gasoline.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]but this requires extensive retooling of our manufacturing plants[/QUOTE]A routine operation, done annually in every car plant in the World. It's not a big deal.<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.agbrazil.com/">You will find this very interesting!</a><br /> "Brazil's frontier--known as the cerrado--is immense and mostly undeveloped. Larger than all of Western Europe and nearly as big as the United States east of the Mississippi River, the unopened area suitable for crop agriculture is larger than the US area in corn, soybeans, wheat and feed grains combined. <br /> <br /> Investment and agribusiness opportunities in Brazil's cerrado stagger the imagination. Huge tracts of virgin land suited to large-scale dryland or irrigated farming sell for as little as US$100 per acre. Millions of hectares are newly opened and planted every year. <br /> <br /> The opening of Brazil's frontier has created a sustained rate of growth of farm output and demand for inputs and services unparalleled in world agricultural history. And, in sharp contrast to the agriculture of developed nations, the investment and agribusiness opportunities in Brazil's frontier agriculture are destined to continue a rapid rate of growth into the foreseeable future.<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,65054,00.html">Automakers Give Biodiesel a Boost</a><br /> Yup, it's no longer science fiction, it's coming to a gas station near you. Bio-Diesel is one possible alternative.<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.fb.org/views/focus/fo2004/fo1115.html">Brazil: Competitor or Partner for U.S. Agriculture</a><br /> "His idea for partnerships is twofold. He thinks Brazil and the United States together can control the world market for biofuels, and he encourages more U.S. investment in Brazilian agribusiness.<br /> <br /> “I am absolutely convinced that in the 21st century it will be very important to get new fuels, especially biofuels, to replace oil. So, what are the countries able to produce lots of ethanol or even biodiesel? Brazil and the United States are the main countries that can do that, so I think we should work together in biofuels,” said Rodrigues.<br /> <br /> But Brazil has a few problems to deal with first. It needs a tremendous investment in infrastructure to adequately handle and ship its agricultural production. A stifling bureaucracy is another problem. Land is cheaper than in the United States, but the soil is poorer.<br /> “We need markets, more and more markets,” said Rodrigues in further assessing the future for Brazil"<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.brazilmax.com/news3.cfm/tborigem/fe_business/id/5">The harnessing of nature's bounty</a><br /> Today, Brazil is probably the world’s most efficient producer with 4.5 million hectares planted in sugar (a land mass equivalent to 20% of the UK or 8% of France). The government plays a key role in determining how much its exports and thus in setting world prices by determining how much will be used to produce ethanol.<br /> <br /> Yes, my dear Peak Oil friends, the alternative plan is already worked out and believe it or not, the World economy is moving to it at a reasonable pace. Bio-Diesel will require very little change to out vehicles and hydrogen fuel is also in the works. We will be using oil while it lasts but when the prices get too high, we will gradually switch over to the already existing alternatives. Countries with massive agricultural potential, such as Brazil, will become what Saud Arabia is today. I would invest money there but I don't trust their stock markets and not sure about the timelines either. It may not happen in my lifetime, cause there is still lots of oil out there.<br /> <br /> <b>As I always said, Peak Oil is the B.S. of the universe.</b> It works on a lot of people though, which is fascinating. Perhaps mankind is not smart after all. Most people can't think for themselves and need to be lead, which explains wars, isms, genocide, religious zealotry. It's sad.

   

[QUOTE BY= badsector] [QUOTE]Turning crops into fuel would be ok if net energy was possible, that is if you generated more energy than you spent to get the generated energy.[/QUOTE]<br /> Hey, you were the guy missing on that science class. <img align="absmiddle" src='images/smilies/smile.gif'> <img align="absmiddle" src='images/smilies/smile.gif'> Just kidding... You can't ever get more energy out then how much you put in. In the 19th century many investors tried in vain to build a perpetum mobile, but they all failed because of this very simple law.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> And the law that everyone forgets is that the Earth is not a closed system. The energy stored in the crops is provided by the Sun, and far exceeds the energy used to farm them.<br />

   

You seem incapable of understanding that if you spend more energy to get less energy, then you are going to run out of energy. Yes, plants use the energy from the sun as one of the components for their growth. But that is not enough. If it were enough then the deserts would be plant jungles.<br /> Because we used non-organic fertilizers as a way to increase crop quantities, (not quality), we addicted the plants by removing the necessity for the symbiosis between them and the bacteria which used to thrive in the soil. Now we have junky soil, if it doesn't get its fix of fertilizer no growth ensues. So you are not going to get net energy from bio diesel.<br /> You can get net energy from solar cells, windmills, temperature differential all of which would augment the H2 (hydrogen) economy.<br /> You have not given any evidence to back up your assertion that peak oil is not true. We are being scammed but not about peak oil. The scam is maintaining our dependance on oil ihstead of moving to regenerative resources. <br /> Your assertion that retooling is easy, is in error, and shows that you do not understand that the entire global infrastructure has to be redesigned and because regenerative resources will not run out and are not scarce the ruling class will not develop them because their raison d'etre is to promote the view that there is not enough to go around. They seek to waste the resources that we need to move to a regenerative economy and thus ensure their empire in perpetuity. <br />

   

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