Stephen Harper & party: My views and opinions - merged
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CDN_PATRIOT @ Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:44 am
Lemmy Lemmy:
Pension plans are a tax on people who die early. No one should be forced to participate in such a scheme.
-J.
CDN_PATRIOT @ Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:48 am
CountLothian CountLothian:
It puts more money into the working poor's hands at the end of his run.
Sure. By taking more of what he needs now, all while fuel/groceries/hydro/taxes go up and squeeze further, leaving said person with virtually nothing left. You honestly think that someone who is barely scraping by is worried about retirement? A lot of people can't see past that next paycheck, and try to calculate how the next grocery bill can be made lower than the last.
It must be nice living within the confines of that little box you're in. Unfortunately, the real world is a vastly different place.
-J.
BeaverFever @ Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:30 am
Lemmy Lemmy:
Pension plans are a tax on people who die early. No one should be forced to participate in such a scheme.
So what! Car insurance is a tax on people who never have a car accident. Health insurance is a tax on people who never get sick. These things were all implemented for a reason to solve real problems. And with employers retreating from the the retirement system by closing their own pension plans, the need is greater than ever.
The Wynne government didn't just pull this idea out of yhin air at the last moment, tho looming retirement crisis and the need for government involvement via enhanced CPP hasn't be talked about for years.
OnTheIce @ Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:49 am
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Like it or not ORPP is provincial program under the jurisdiction of the elected government of Ontario. It was part of Wynne's election campaign, which she won with an overwheliming majority.
The Harper government is not the government of Ontario as much as they would like to pretend otherwise. It's none of Harpers damn business really and the federal governments attempts to obstruct, undermine and sabotage the ORPP program are way offside and undemocratic.
Just more cheap, dirty, petty and mean spirited tactics from the Conservatives.
The Harper government is not the government of Ontario as much as they would like to pretend otherwise. It's none of Harpers damn business really and the federal governments attempts to obstruct, undermine and sabotage the ORPP program are way offside and undemocratic.
Just more cheap, dirty, petty and mean spirited tactics from the Conservatives.
Like it or not, the Liberals don't have a way to manage or collect their ORPP without the help of the CRA. The Liberals love to play political games and then cry when the tables are turned. Wynne and her minions have been nothing but hostile towards the Feds and now they come, hat in hand, asking for help to implement a program? Fuck off.
And yes, it is the business of the Federal Government when the Provinces are asking them to help with this scheme. Let the Province go it alone and fund the setup of the program themselves. It will be another great excuse to run a deficit again and blame it on someone else.
Jabberwalker @ Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:51 am
If Harper's boycott of Flora MacDonald's funeral is supposed to win Tory votes in Ontario, this guy must be hiding in a closet, again. The "red" Tories of the GTA give him his majority, perhaps even his minority foundation, for that matter and some kind of concession that Central and Eastern Canada exist would be a good idea.
PublicAnimalNo9 @ Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:54 am
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Lemmy Lemmy:
Pension plans are a tax on people who die early. No one should be forced to participate in such a scheme.
So what! Car insurance is a tax on people who never have a car accident. Health insurance is a tax on people who never get sick. These things were all implemented for a reason to solve real problems. And with employers retreating from the the retirement system by closing their own pension plans, the need is greater than ever.
Bull. Car insurance is optional. No one makes you pay car insurance if you don't own a vehicle. There's also no law that states I HAVE to pay into a private health insurance plan. But there's now a new law that states I have to cough up even more dough simply for the privilege of having a shitty paying job. Meaning the money I need now will be taken and given back in a few decades when it'll be worth even less than it's worth today.
OnTheIce @ Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:56 am
Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
If Harper's boycott of Flora MacDonald's funeral is supposed to win Tory votes in Ontario, this guy must be hiding in a closet, again. The "red" Tories of the GTA give him his majority, perhaps even his minority foundation, for that matter and some kind of concession that Central and Eastern Canada exist would be a good idea.
The vast majority of voters don't know who Flora MacDonald was....kind of an irrelevant point when it comes to the election.
Jabberwalker @ Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:05 am
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
If Harper's boycott of Flora MacDonald's funeral is supposed to win Tory votes in Ontario, this guy must be hiding in a closet, again. The "red" Tories of the GTA give him his majority, perhaps even his minority foundation, for that matter and some kind of concession that Central and Eastern Canada exist would be a good idea.
The vast majority of voters don't know who Flora MacDonald was....kind of an irrelevant point when it comes to the election.
Jabberwalker @ Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:05 am
Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
If Harper's boycott of Flora MacDonald's funeral is supposed to win Tory votes in Ontario, this guy must be hiding in a closet, again. The "red" Tories of the GTA give him his majority, perhaps even his minority foundation, for that matter and some kind of concession that Central and Eastern Canada exist would be a good idea.
The vast majority of voters don't know who Flora MacDonald was....kind of an irrelevant point when it comes to the election.
OnTheIce @ Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:19 am
Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
If Harper's boycott of Flora MacDonald's funeral is supposed to win Tory votes in Ontario, this guy must be hiding in a closet, again. The "red" Tories of the GTA give him his majority, perhaps even his minority foundation, for that matter and some kind of concession that Central and Eastern Canada exist would be a good idea.
The vast majority of voters don't know who Flora MacDonald was....kind of an irrelevant point when it comes to the election.
Jabber, it's a non-issue. Reading all the major papers this morning, not even a blip on the radar of the press let alone the genera public.
Not going to some funeral for some ancient politician is hardly a snub at any particular region of Canada.
BeaverFever @ Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:53 am
Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
The vast majority of voters don't know who Flora MacDonald was....kind of an irrelevant point when it comes to the election.
It's well known that Harper has no respect for the country's Flora or fauna
BeaverFever @ Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:17 am
OnTheIce OnTheIce:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Like it or not ORPP is provincial program under the jurisdiction of the elected government of Ontario. It was part of Wynne's election campaign, which she won with an overwheliming majority.
The Harper government is not the government of Ontario as much as they would like to pretend otherwise. It's none of Harpers damn business really and the federal governments attempts to obstruct, undermine and sabotage the ORPP program are way offside and undemocratic.
Just more cheap, dirty, petty and mean spirited tactics from the Conservatives.
The Harper government is not the government of Ontario as much as they would like to pretend otherwise. It's none of Harpers damn business really and the federal governments attempts to obstruct, undermine and sabotage the ORPP program are way offside and undemocratic.
Just more cheap, dirty, petty and mean spirited tactics from the Conservatives.
Like it or not, the Liberals don't have a way to manage or collect their ORPP without the help of the CRA. The Liberals love to play political games and then cry when the tables are turned. Wynne and her minions have been nothing but hostile towards the Feds and now they come, hat in hand, asking for help to implement a program? Fuck off.
And yes, it is the business of the Federal Government when the Provinces are asking them to help with this scheme. Let the Province go it alone and fund the setup of the program themselves. It will be another great excuse to run a deficit again and blame it on someone else.
No, you just don't get it.
It's not a political favour for the Conservative government to allow the CRA administer the program. The CRA typically administers most provincial tax programs, whether they be rebates or deductions for tuition, hydro, rent, etc. in NORMAL COURSE. It is normal and expected that the ORPP would be no different. The politicians at the federal level should not have had to become involved either way.
The CRA is not a wing of the Conservative Party. It is a non-partisan public agency. It is ABUSE OF POWER for the Tories use the CRA for partisan attacks or retaliation. PERIOD. You people just can't grasp the basic concept of fair play. It's the black-and-white thinking that conservatives are so notorious for.
BeaverFever @ Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:34 am
PA9 PA9:
Bull. Car insurance is optional. No one makes you pay car insurance if you don't own a vehicle.
Well, nobody makes you pay for ORPP if you don't have a job, or if you have a job that offers a pension plan.
$1:
There's also no law that states I HAVE to pay into a private health insurance plan.
You have to pay for a public plan, which is what we're talking about here.
$1:
Meaning the money I need now will be taken and given back in a few decades when it'll be worth even less than it's worth today.
No, where do you get that it will be worth even less? Just like CPP, the amount of the pension benefit will be adjusted annually.
I can assume that generally, you must be op[posed to CPP and EI too, since it's the same principle? Sadly you're not alone, I know lots of people who would gladly sign away their lifetime entitlement worth tens of thousands of dollars of pension and health benefits in exchange for receiving a few hundred dollars today so they can go buy the latest flat screen TV or iWatch or whatever. Or because this week's episode of the Marilyn Dennis show convinced them that their house is out of style and they need to redecorate.
But I bet people would opt out of road and sewer maintenance, police protection and just about everything else too, if you promised to put a few dollars into their pockets.
The retirement crisis is real, its a societal problem, and it's not going away. Putting your head in the sand isn't going to make it go away either.
OnTheIce @ Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:55 am
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
No, you just don't get it.
It's not a political favour for the Conservative government to allow the CRA administer the program. The CRA typically administers most provincial tax programs, whether they be rebates or deductions for tuition, hydro, rent, etc. in NORMAL COURSE. It is normal and expected that the ORPP would be no different. The politicians at the federal level should not have had to become involved either way.
The CRA is not a wing of the Conservative Party. It is a non-partisan public agency. It is ABUSE OF POWER for the Tories use the CRA for partisan attacks or retaliation. PERIOD. You people just can't grasp the basic concept of fair play. It's the black-and-white thinking that conservatives are so notorious for.
Of course I get it. It's politics.
There's no such thing as 'fair play' in politics. The CRA is a non-partisan Federal public agency under the control of the federal government.
The Wynne government has been taking swings at Harper since the day she was elected and she needs support of the Federal government to get the CRA to administer the program. So while it may be normal course, you don't run around shitting all over people an expect things to be "normal" when you want to get a program up and running and you need help.
OnTheIce @ Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:58 am
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
The retirement crisis is real, its a societal problem, and it's not going away. Putting your head in the sand isn't going to make it go away either.
Yes, it's real.
Can you live on less than $2000 per month? With this new program, it's going to help but those that really need the help will still be poor and those with a ton of RRSP investments will just get a little bonus cheque on top of their healthy income.
This problem needs education and awareness...not some half-asses retirement program that will surely fund my future boat purchase.
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