Omnibus COVID-19 virus discussion thread
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raydan @ Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:13 pm
CharlesAnthony @ Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:39 pm
Sunnyways Sunnyways:
Where are we with that?
Where do you want to be with that?
CDN_PATRIOT @ Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:28 pm
Am I the only one that's not worried in the slightest about this?
![[?]](./images/smilies/confused.gif "Confused")
-J.
Sunnyways @ Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:35 pm
Let’s start with some obvious questions. Do we have enough of the following in Canada: testing kits, protective equipment, hospital beds, ventilators, drugs? My local hospital is already overwhelmed with geezers with nowhere to go - I don’t know where we’d put a big surge of critically ill patients. Does that sound familiar in your neck of the woods? This is the sort of situation where federal supervision of the provinces’ health care efforts needs to be much tighter than it usually is. Two former politicians I’d like to see involved somewhere in this national effort - Tony Clement and Jane Philpott.
raydan @ Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:35 pm
Martin15 @ Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:35 pm
Sunnyways Sunnyways:
Let’s start with some obvious questions. Do we have enough of the following in Canada: testing kits, protective equipment, hospital beds, ventilators, drugs? My local hospital is already overwhelmed with geezers with nowhere to go - I don’t know where we’d put a big surge of critically ill patients. Does that sound familiar in your neck of the woods? This is the sort of situation where federal supervision of the provinces’ health care efforts needs to be much tighter than it usually is. Two former politicians I’d like to see involved somewhere in this national effort - Tony Clement and Jane Philpott.
You don't really want the answers to those questions.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... virus.html
'Treating the elderly would be sacrificed if coronavirus overwhelms UK': NHS would prioritise critical care for those most likely to survive rather than most vulnerable patients, senior doctors admit
$1:
by Leigh McManus
Doctors have admitted that the most vulnerable patients could be denied critical care in a severe coronavirus outbreak, as they also warned that the UK is dangerously unequipped to deal with a pandemic.
Under protocol dubbed 'Three Wise Men', senior medics at hospitals would need to decipher which patients to give care such as ventilators and beds to, with a focus on saving those most likely to recover.
The medics spoke to The Independent in the wake of 'dishonest' assurances from the Government that the UK can handle the virus which is rapidly spreading across Europe.
Doctors have admitted that the most vulnerable patients could be denied critical care in a severe coronavirus outbreak, as they also warned that the UK is dangerously unequipped to deal with a pandemic.
Under protocol dubbed 'Three Wise Men', senior medics at hospitals would need to decipher which patients to give care such as ventilators and beds to, with a focus on saving those most likely to recover.
The medics spoke to The Independent in the wake of 'dishonest' assurances from the Government that the UK can handle the virus which is rapidly spreading across Europe.
$1:
If you can imagine the real worst-case scenarios where supply is massively outstripped by demand we would have to refuse to admit many people who would normally get ventilated,' one worried doctor said.
They added that Three Wise Men was developed by The Committee on Ethical Aspects of Pandemic Influenza 'to minimise the harm the pandemic causes,' despite disparities in care levels for sufferers.
On the Government's claims that the UK is equipped to deal with a pandemic, the doctor rubbished them, branding the comments 'nonsense'.
Another doctor added: 'If this is like the 2009 flu it's going to be very bad. We're in a worse position than we were then. If it's worse than that we're going to be in deep trouble.'
They added that Three Wise Men was developed by The Committee on Ethical Aspects of Pandemic Influenza 'to minimise the harm the pandemic causes,' despite disparities in care levels for sufferers.
On the Government's claims that the UK is equipped to deal with a pandemic, the doctor rubbished them, branding the comments 'nonsense'.
Another doctor added: 'If this is like the 2009 flu it's going to be very bad. We're in a worse position than we were then. If it's worse than that we're going to be in deep trouble.'
$1:
What is 'Three Wise Men?'
In preparation for the 2009 Swine Flu pandemic, the committee on Ethical Aspects of Pandemic Influenza (CEAPI) developed an ethical framework in 2007 and this was based on the principle of 'the three wise men'.
This has since been reviewed post 2009, and the conclusions are that the framework remains appropriate to future pandemic management.
According to the guidance, this means that:
Everyone matters
Everyone matters equally – but this does not mean that everyone is treated the same
The interests of each person as the concern of all of us, and society
The harm that might be suffered by every person matters, and so minimising the harm that a pandemic might cause is a central concern
The Framework goes on to describe eight core principles:
Respect
Minimising the harm that a pandemic could cause
Fairness
Working together
Reciprocity
Keeping things in proportion
Flexibility
Good decision making
Ethical considerations are important in determining how to make the fairest use of resources and capacity.
Decisions should be in proportion to the demands of the pandemic and other existing pressures and should be aimed at minimising the overall harm caused by the pandemic.
It should be noted that many people will also face personal dilemmas such as tensions between their personal and professional obligations.
In preparation for the 2009 Swine Flu pandemic, the committee on Ethical Aspects of Pandemic Influenza (CEAPI) developed an ethical framework in 2007 and this was based on the principle of 'the three wise men'.
This has since been reviewed post 2009, and the conclusions are that the framework remains appropriate to future pandemic management.
According to the guidance, this means that:
Everyone matters
Everyone matters equally – but this does not mean that everyone is treated the same
The interests of each person as the concern of all of us, and society
The harm that might be suffered by every person matters, and so minimising the harm that a pandemic might cause is a central concern
The Framework goes on to describe eight core principles:
Respect
Minimising the harm that a pandemic could cause
Fairness
Working together
Reciprocity
Keeping things in proportion
Flexibility
Good decision making
Ethical considerations are important in determining how to make the fairest use of resources and capacity.
Decisions should be in proportion to the demands of the pandemic and other existing pressures and should be aimed at minimising the overall harm caused by the pandemic.
It should be noted that many people will also face personal dilemmas such as tensions between their personal and professional obligations.
TL:DR Productive taxpayer ? OK we will try.
Old/disabled/nonvotingchild/welfare bum ? Sorry, we did everything we could.
But their are no death panels.
DrCaleb @ Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:14 am
CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:
Am I the only one that's not worried in the slightest about this?
-J.
-J.
Nope.
I'm treating this like any other flu. The only difference is I likely have no immunity to it.
And like Bart, I'll just take time off and play No Mans' Sky all day.
stratos @ Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:18 am
CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:
Am I the only one that's not worried in the slightest about this?
-J.
-J.
I'm not worried either. For all intents and purpose this looks like a new strain of the … flu. Does the world go frantic every flu season? I have no idea why people are over this.
DrCaleb @ Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:27 am
stratos stratos:
I have no idea why people are over this.
Because it's new, and we don't know what the mutations of it will look like. Every year the Flu mutates as it travels around the world. It may start out harsh and end up mild, or vice versa. But with this being a new virus, no one has immunity, and so we don't know how it will affect the population.
Plus, it just has to infect someone with another virus in order to pick up attributes for that virus, and it may mutate into something newer.
But the odds are low. I like the odds.
stratos @ Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:32 am
in other words people are scared of the unknown because OMG type of reports that actually say nothing.
DrCaleb @ Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:39 am
stratos stratos:
in other words people are scared of the unknown because OMG type of reports that actually say nothing.
The press, especially in the US, has that as their mantra. Keep the people scared, that drives up viewership. Repeat every 10 minutes.
The only thing that changes is the threat. Muslims! Ms-13! Coronavirus!
DrCaleb @ Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:41 am
Prime example here Stratos: 105 children have died so far this season in the US from the Flu. Is that on the news?
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm
stratos @ Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:20 am
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Prime example here Stratos: 105 children have died so far this season in the US from the Flu. Is that on the news?
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm
This is the first I'm hearing about it. Yet C-Virus is all over the news.
DrCaleb @ Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:28 am
stratos stratos:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Prime example here Stratos: 105 children have died so far this season in the US from the Flu. Is that on the news?
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm
This is the first I'm hearing about it. Yet C-Virus is all over the news.
Same here. 25 people in Alberta have died from the flu, and over 900 have been hospitalized. Not a peep.
Zero cases of Covid-19, leads the news every night.
DrCaleb @ Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:27 am
India Is In The Middle Of A Coronavirus YouTube Frenzy, And It’s Going To Get People Killed
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