1 Oct 2017: Catalonia Independence or start of civil war?
BartSimpson @ Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:48 am
Sunnyways Sunnyways:
The fundamental question here is whether we are created for the benefit of the state or vice versa.
+5
If I could +1000 I would!
In most of the world the people exist at the pleasure of the state. Even in countries that supposedly value human rights we see again and again that the state demands total obedience under pain of death...go see the Police Misconduct topic for indisputable evidence of this fact.
The problem is that as government power increases the freedom of the people decreases.
On both sides of the political spectrum there are statists who support ever-increasing government power. Some want a police state with some economic liberties, some want an authoritarian socialist state with few if any personal liberties at all.
Myself, I want a small government that does only those things utterly necessary to the security and prosperity of The People.
Fuck the bankers.
Fuck the goddamned socialists.
Fuck the 'Thin Blue Line' idiots who mindlessly bow to any fool with a badge.
Fuck the globalists.
Power to The Individual People and fuck everyone else to Hell!
![[cheer]](./images/smilies/icon_cheers.gif "Cheer"){kind=icon}
Martin15 @ Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:28 pm
Sunnyways Sunnyways:
Countries come in all shapes and sizes. There is a lower limit - one wouldn’t want to see individuals or streets becoming countries - which is why the word ‘viable’ is there. A region entirely contained within the mother state may not be viable, for example, and a history of a well-defined internal border and self-government at the provincial level would be desirable. The process to secede should be arduous, with a full discussion of the costs and risks given fair expression.
Yes but costs to who ? The ones leaving or the ones staying behind ?
The European independence movements, and there are several, usually involve a lot
of money being transferred from one region to another.
$1:
Whether a simple majority à la Brexit would be enough is an open question. The point is we should not be so hysterical about such change.
Quebec was 50% plus 1.. Twice
Scotland was set at 50%, so the precedent has been set.
But I agree, any kind of separation or independence should be set at at least 65%
$1:
Borders are not sacred and countries are created for our convenience, to serve us. At some point, their extent will need to be adjusted. There should be peaceful mechanisms to achieve that
Oh that's a nice idea. Reality is something different.
$1:
. I don’t want to see Catalonia leave Spain or an explosion in the number of new states around the world but I do believe there should be a legal way out for those regions that deeply desire it.
In the Catalonia case, the was a completely illegal referendum, followed by a completely
illegal declaration of independence a while later.
Pretty much the complete definition of sedition. As far as the Franco comment goes,
if this was true, those 9 would be swinging in the town square tonight.
Sunnyways @ Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:06 pm
Martin15 Martin15:
In the Catalonia case, the was a completely illegal referendum, followed by a completely
illegal declaration of independence a while later.
Pretty much the complete definition of sedition. As far as the Franco comment goes,
if this was true, those 9 would be swinging in the town square tonight.
illegal declaration of independence a while later.
Pretty much the complete definition of sedition. As far as the Franco comment goes,
if this was true, those 9 would be swinging in the town square tonight.
It’s only illegal because Spain did let Catalonia run a referendum on the matter. Countries need to get over themselves. What is the alternative to referendums and peaceful secession? War? Or keeping precisely the same borders across the world for the next thousand years irrespective of what people want? We need new solutions for a problem that will inevitably recur.
Martin15 @ Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:44 am
Sunnyways Sunnyways:
It’s only illegal because Spain did let Catalonia run a referendum on the matter.
No they didn't, that's the whole damn point. Btw, what restrictions would you like to
put on Alberta having a referendum ?
Anyway, another traitor indicted (again)
Ex-Catalan minister Clara Ponsati, 62, hands herself in to police in Edinburgh as she faces a charge of sedition over her role in the region's 2017 independence referendum
Professor at St Andrews University in Scotland was subject to an arrest warrant
She joined the university in January 2016 and seconded to Catalonia in July 2017
Fled region after the Catalan declaration of independence on October 27, 2017
This will be hilarious, the Scottish will go crazy over this.
