Previous  1  2  3  4  Next

But why are there beings instead of nothing at all? Why do beings form? Why is there dna? Why is there amino acids? Why is there an earth? Why is there a solar system? Does evolutionism explain that? Why was there a big bang? These are the reasons why I am an agnostic.

   

Scientific theory really only goes back as far as the big bang (there are theories for what happened before that, but I'm not a physicist and nothing seems even slightly settled as near as I can tell), but if you follow the theories from start to finish there is a coherent explanation from big bang to modern humans. That makes a lot more sense to me than some old guy with a vague resemblance to Osama slamming everything together in 7 days.

   

Just because something sounds good, doesn't mean it's true, which goes for religion and scientific theory. Why was there a big bang anyways? Do they have scientific proofs as to why the big bang happened? I think it's like nietzsche said, "god is dead." Basically we have given up on god and he is no longer what governs everyone, and we have traded him for science, but science is still a human invention, and as everyone knows, humans are not perfect. Maybe that explanation makes more sense to you, but it still doesn't explain everything.

   

The thing about science is that it changes with the data though, Johnny. There is data to support evolutionary theory, but not Creationism. The data on evolution changes as new data becomes available. Sub-theories change...evolve, as it were. Creationists try to paint that as proof that evolution is not a real theory at all, but they can only do so by misrepresenting how science works.

   

I'm not trying to say that science doesn't say that, I'm just talking about things like why there are beings at all instead of nothing, why there is anything instead of nothing. Science has some answers, but I don't see how the answer to why there is life or anything can be answered, even through science, which is why I say that nothing can truly be known, also when you think about certain perceptions and so on. I mean does evolution completely count out what happens to you when you die? Who's to say that you don't have a soul? Who's says that you do, I mean I'm not going to say that when you die you are just nothing, but I'm not going to say for sure that when you die you are something. I mean science is all based on our perceptions, and everything in this world, even science, is still based on perceptions and interpretations.

   

Excuse me Johhny, your going to try and sit there and tell me what I've experienced is irrelevent. You really are young. I didn't say I hated Christians. You have got to learn to stop putting words in people"s mouths.

Johhny I've known atheists that have donated kidneys,while the Christian relatives that were a donor match to the person that needed a kidney, their own fllesh and blood, turned them down. That doesn't mean that all Christians are like that.That's what I mean by selfless.

You claim that you don't see the world in black & white. Yet you make assumptions and you alter the intent of what people have said. Your pigeon holing people into how you want to view them.

   

Evolution does not address the issue of souls at all Johnny. It isn't pertinent to the theory.

   

Is there a God? If you feel like doing some heavy reading, Thomas Aquinas' proofs of the existense of God will give you something to think about.

As for Christianity, I think it was G.K. Chesterton who said, "The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"

   

Aren't you doing the same to me? My whole line about people bashing Christians was meant to stand for alot of people nowadays, NOT YOU. Oh, and don't call me young just because I have a different opinion and view of the world than you, because that is just a cop out and a personal attack. If you line didn't mean that all religious people were like that, then why did you need to say it? You basically were saying that you know alot of athiest who do truly kind things, while alot of religious people don't. That is a huge generalization and judgement based on only who you know, set to make one side look better than the other, is it not? How were you being fair to one side? You were basically cutting down the one side, and praising the other. Also, none of your personal accounts for matters really count, because you could be making it all up for shock value or to just win an arguement.

I used Christians as just an example of one religions, because you were comparing ALL religions to athiest, which is truly unfair and unrealistic when you think of the WIDE variety of people in this world, and probably the small amount of people you actually know our of the population. A long time ago a friend of mine tried to sue me for a personal matter, so does that mean that all athiest try to sue people and are backstabbers? Sure, that is a completely relative matter, and judging by how it's the internet you do not have to take it as a fact(I assure you it is)but I think it is just an example that everything you are saying about how a good deal of athiest are great people, while a good deal of Christians aren't, is just bull. Hell, I don't fully believe in a god, and you would never probably see me giving up any of my organs.

Why don't you save those personal attacks and attempts to belittle someone for another arguement. I was just analysing and trying to hold you accountable for what you said, and understand what you meant, NOT trying to sit back and belittle you and cut you down, it's called debate, and when you put up something, you have to expect that everyone will perceive it in a different way and will post something back to you.

All I'm trying to understand is why you are comparing athiest to other religions and basically holding them on a higher level, cause you have so far praised them and cut down the religious side. Just so that you don't sound like you aren't judging all Christians unfairly, you say that you know all Christians aren't like that, but the damage was already done by the previous line in which you basically say that the Christian relatives sat back and wouldn't donate any organs while the SUPER-athiest came forward, with their great selfless nature, and donated the organ in the most caring and nice nature, while the terrible religious sat back unwilling to donate anything. If you were going for a fair line, I think something like "I know there's religious people who have probably donated organs, and are just as selfless as anyone else, and I know athiest, who often times are unfairly judged because they aren't religious, who have had a selfless nature and who have donated organs, so you see it's all relative to the individual," but instead you make one side look bad, and the other good.

   

And that is the only line and answer you can give me to what I asked? I know I wrote more than just one line about souls, and you seem to have all the answers, so where are they?

   

Johnny...you were implying that I was a bigot. I am not. Now you are implying that I am a liar. I am not. It was you who is trying to belittle me.How is & I quote " Guess you haven't seen much..." not a personal attack. By the very start of your statement, you are implying that I am ignorant.So don't hand me this bullshit about you being the innocent little victim here.

My point about the kidney donation( Also true) was the definintion of what a selfless act is. I myself have been involved with food drives for the homeless.( not on an orginazational scale ,but in helping to implement them.) I don't consider this to be selfless because all I am really giving up is a little time and money. Would I be capable of giving up an organ for a stranger, frankly, I don't know.

I called you young because I am 44, I know I'm older than you and you implied I have seen very little of the world.Did you ever stop to think that I may have met a few people in that time. Did you stop to think that I may have some personal experience, that may be relevent because I did pull it out of a college text book. I called you young because if you don't think personal experience factors into our experiences in life, you are being naive. While I may not have met every person in the world, to pull what you would consider a "realistic" evaluation, I think, I have met a relatively good mix. While it may not be up to your standards, I feel I can make intelligent and rational decisions on that basis.

By your statements, you are making the assumption that I don't see the good that some very religious( not just Christians ) do. That is absurd. I said that I have just evidenced more selfless acts from Atheists than I have from any religious sect. How do you extrapolate from that, that I judge all Christians ( or any other sect) unfairly. Then to have the audacity to say "well this is how you should have written it."

   

I've known Zen for over twenty years Johnny. I've called him many things in that time, and there is absolutely no doubt...Zen is old.

I'm not sure what answers you want from me, Johnny. I also don't know why you think I would have any beyond those supporting evolution. I've said before that atheism is a belief...that I can no more prove there isn't a god than somebody else can prove there is.

Do I think Creationism is wrong? Yes. More than that, I think it is harmful because it purposely and actively blocks the pursuit of knowledge not only among its adherents, but among society at large.

Do I think science has all of the answers? Nope. I do know that there is more physical proof for evolutionary theory than anything that came out of any creation myth though. I also know that science will build and expand on that knowledge as more physical evidence is presented.

I don't believe in eternal souls. I believe that there is a human spirit and that spirit can be passed from one person or group to a another person or group, but that's has to do with psychology. I don't believe that anything survives death though. You take a dirt nap, the worms eat you, and that's it.

   

That is all I was trying to say, that science doesn't have all the answers. You might find that on this subject, me and you actualy agree, cause I myself am an agnostic.

   

Just because you live long and meet people, doesn't mean, I think, that you can draw any evaluation unless you have stats which show that athiest do so and so selfless deads, and that christians do so and so selfless deads, which is the main point I was trying to get at(and even stats can still lie). Guess you haven't seen much wasn't meant to be a personal attack -- such as calling you young because of your opinion -- but a statement drawn from the conclusions you had about how you have seen more athiest who have commited self-less deads than religious people. I agree, the kidney was a show of a self-less act, but a self-less act can even be hard to define. I didn't imply that you have seen little of the world, but the world is filled with billions of people and millions of situations/whatever else you can think of, and I was basically saying that to draw such conslusions, based on 1 or even 100 events, is still not correct in my mind.

I think that personal experience shapes our point of view of the world, and maybe how we react to certain situation, but it doesn't actually act on events which happen in life, which can be open to many facters. Maybe our perception does have a little part in experiences which happen in life, but you have to think that from the time we were born those experiences often times happen without our help, and keep building on each other, so it could be quite unknown to us what is happening and what we will take from an experience.

Maybe you should make your post more clear, because from what I had gathered, you said that you have seen more athiest do selfless deads than other religious people, and from you 44 yr old experience, one would gather that you are implying that religious people do not do as many self-less deads as athiest.

   

Johnny, I am not attacking you I am just curious. If you don't base what you see, hear, feel and touch as a basis for shaping your opinions and all you rely on is stats, aren't you missing the point of what the stats actually mean? Stats are a tool, no more than a hammer. It s what the carpenter has feels & has experienced, which allows him to build and create something of value.

Rev...Forty this year, , eh? You ain't no spring chicken anymore.

   

Previous  1  2  3  4  Next