Canada Kicks Ass
First Nations ignore Canadian Law

REPLY

Previous  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  Next



EyeBrock @ Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:02 am

Macguyver Macguyver:
I don't understand your objections to the Chief wanting to get something going for his band. He’s right the Indian Act leaves each band in a horrific quagmire of living as a ward of the state, and nothing can be done without approvals from some bureaucracy in Ottawa.

Cheers to him for at least attempting to get off his ass and generate some industry. Being stuck in the mud for 200 years and not being able to participate in the economy means that they have to start from 0 – and they have to start somewhere. I hear all the rednecks bitching that the fucking Indians should get off their asses and I agree, but then when someone tries to do something it’s a choice of either throwing another stone into the quagmire or breaking the law and putting their money where their mouth is – and the rednecks scream bloody murder.

So either you want the Indians to do something and get some real jobs so they are not living on the system or you are happy to be sending them cheques every month. It almost feels like if the Natives succeed some of you rednecks feel like you’re going to move down a spot and be the lowest class on the totem pole. And that makes sense that you would resent “natives’ actually achieving something and leaving you nothing to complain about (scratch that we’d have to eliminate all the immigrants first).

How about we embrace the fact that shit needs to be done for these people to get off our backs (where we put them right or wrong) – support thinking outside the box and fuck the law – if these people are willing to throw their ball sacks on the line in order to make a living and do better for themselves (and therefore us) then lets support that. I’d be happy as hell to have every First Nation with some industry and a source of jobs and income for the people instead of continually being forced to live on welfare.

Do you realize that if we invested more in economic development for these folks instead of writing welfare cheques, perhaps one day they would have jobs and they can tax themselves and actually contribute to their own destinies – which four us would mean less welfare burden and less taxes. Seems to me some of you would rather be able to complain about those welfare cheques than give these people a shot at living at the same standard (OMG OR BETTER???) than us.



I agree with your general sentiment. There are lots of wrongs that FN peoples can dwell on and this guy isn't.

However, I think that the reservoir of good will is drying up. The reality is that immigrants and their descendants will soon make up a majority in Canada. Most immigrants etc I have spoken to on this subject just shake their heads at the silliness of it all.

FN peoples need a harsh reality check and this PC BS needs to stop. The fact that Natives can ignore our laws with impunity will be the death knell for special native-only rights.

   



PublicAnimalNo9 @ Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:29 am

I'm sorry but, I just don't see getting involved in the selling and providing of highly addictive substances and activities(cigarettes and gambling) making this Chief some sort of stand up guy.
You must be so proud Macguyver, although I didn't know liberals were all about spreading addiction and poverty around.

   



Wada @ Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:30 am

and here I thought the Brits had already given them their reality check some two hundred years ago. :idea:

   



PublicAnimalNo9 @ Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:38 am

Wada Wada:
and here I thought the Brits had already given them their reality check some two hundred years ago. :idea:

They did. Problem is, it's Canadians that are giving them cheques for it now.

   



Wada @ Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:46 am

Well this Canadian don't mind so much. I've watched our local reserve turn from squallor into a thriving and productive community.

   



Curtman @ Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:20 am

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
I'm sorry but, I just don't see getting involved in the selling and providing of highly addictive substances and activities(cigarettes and gambling) making this Chief some sort of stand up guy.
You must be so proud Macguyver, although I didn't know liberals were all about spreading addiction and poverty around.


Is it somehow different from when our government does it?

   



andyt @ Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:23 am

Curtman Curtman:
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
I'm sorry but, I just don't see getting involved in the selling and providing of highly addictive substances and activities(cigarettes and gambling) making this Chief some sort of stand up guy.
You must be so proud Macguyver, although I didn't know liberals were all about spreading addiction and poverty around.


Is it somehow different from when our government does it?


Yes. Our government doesn't sell cigs, but collects taxes on them - you know, like you want them to do with pot. So what makes the Indians special that they could evade these taxes?

Same with casinos - our govts regulate them. What makes the Indians special they should not be under those same regulations. Do we really want to create two classes for rights in this country, where Indians are spatial?

   



Curtman @ Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:11 pm

andyt andyt:
Curtman Curtman:
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
I'm sorry but, I just don't see getting involved in the selling and providing of highly addictive substances and activities(cigarettes and gambling) making this Chief some sort of stand up guy.
You must be so proud Macguyver, although I didn't know liberals were all about spreading addiction and poverty around.


Is it somehow different from when our government does it?


Yes. Our government doesn't sell cigs, but collects taxes on them - you know, like you want them to do with pot. So what makes the Indians special that they could evade these taxes?

Same with casinos - our govts regulate them. What makes the Indians special they should not be under those same regulations. Do we really want to create two classes for rights in this country, where Indians are spatial?


Maybe where you live but not Manitoba where this story is about. Look up who owns mcphillips street station casino. Check the lotteries as well. Ill ask next time I'm at the Manitoba liquor control commission who owns it.

   



andyt @ Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:17 pm

Lotteries, yes, the government runs those. Casinos AFAIK are run privately, but regulated by the govt. And that's my only beef with this Indian casino - that it isn't regulated like the white man's casinos.

And are you seriously supporting the selling of cigs that have no taxes paid on them?

   



Curtman @ Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:56 pm

andyt andyt:
Lotteries, yes, the government runs those. Casinos AFAIK are run privately, but regulated by the govt. And that's my only beef with this Indian casino - that it isn't regulated like the white man's casinos.

And are you seriously supporting the selling of cigs that have no taxes paid on them?


$1:
Manitoba Lotteries, a crown corporation of the Manitoba Government which generated over 4000 direct and indirect jobs for the Manitoba economy, operates the casinos which provide the Provincial government with revenues to fund programming. McPhillips Street Station and Club Regent are the only two licensed casinos in the city of Winnipeg.


Its been that way since the progressive conservatives opened them. They already sell cigarettes tax free to status Indians. I object to the arbitrary decisions about who can and can't.

   



andyt @ Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:12 pm

I agree - no arbitrary selling of tax free cigarettes. Make everybody follow the same rules.

Casinos - I'm sure the govt follows it's own regulations on the casinos it owns. As I said, I have no problems with the Indians running casinos as long as they also follow the rules.

   



Curtman @ Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:30 pm

andyt andyt:
I agree - no arbitrary selling of tax free cigarettes. Make everybody follow the same rules.

Casinos - I'm sure the govt follows it's own regulations on the casinos it owns. As I said, I have no problems with the Indians running casinos as long as they also follow the rules.


I don't really care as long as it isn't gangsters making the money.

   



Macguyver @ Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:22 pm

andyt andyt:

Is there something genetically inferior about Indians that means they can't start legitimate businesses same as everybody else?



Business takes capital. If there is no capital there is no business. You and I can raise capital from the sale of our homes, some of us have parents and grandparents who have homes that we will inherit when they die, businesses, cash, what have you.

There is no genetic inferiority here. There are Native people in this country who own businesses and have millions of dollars and contribute to our economy in a good way. We have (YES US) created a situation where we force people to either leave their homes and their friends and family and culture in order to assimilate with the like of you and I. If I was one of them and I had to work with you and you spouted off about how Indians are a burden and why don't they get off their asses...I would tell you to fuck off and I’d go right back to my people where I feel comfortable and collect my cheque from you every month.

That is reality. You and I create it. And we (well mostly you) are to blame, cause you can’t pull your head out of your ass long enough to see that there are great opportunities to invest in these places, there is an opportunity to allow Indians to control their own destiny and participate in our economy. But every time someone talks about it the rednecks stand up in protest and shreek and cry about how unfair it all is the Indians get this and that from our tax dollars. Guess what, those tax dollars pay the welfare costs too. So with one hand you oppose changes and investments and spending tax dollars to get people out of our pockets, and yet your happy to complain about the welfare and housing and social cost of keeping those people in poverty.

You know why so little of the Aboriginal people on this continent were slaves? Cause they don't fucking like taking orders from us. I don't blame them. We’ve been pushing them around for hundreds of years, stealing their kids, taking their land, starving them into submission – but they’re still there and they’re population is growing. If you have not got it yet they are not going to let us dictate how they live. So we can chose to continue to tell them what is good for them (move to the city, get a job, be a good redskinned white boy, cut your hair, quit playing that crappy music and worship our god etc etc...).

Its time to change the program, it’s time to think like this guy and get-er-done. What would you do if the government said you could no longer start your business or get a loan or sell your shit or hire a lawyer or vote? You’d revolt wouldn’t you. Well what we are dealing with is a revolt. We figured we’d pay these people just enough to survive, and they’d see how good us whites have it in our Mc-mansions and our fancy cars and our rock and roll music (well they like the music as far as I can tell) and they would all come join us and give up their Indian-ness and just forget about their culture and traditions and history.

And to our surprise they would rather live in abject poverty, and face all the problems with health and substance abuse and whatever else poverty brings than come be our neighbours (I’m generalizing cause we got lots of Indians living and working all over the country). Do you get that? They would rather suffer than hang out with the likes of you. Why? Cause we’re a bunch of assholes and crooks. We are, we took their shit, promised them that we’d be equals and then sent them to reserves where they could do nothing but follow our rules or give up their rights. I don't fucking blame them (well I sort of do because I see the bums and I think CHRIST I NEED WORKERS GET A JOB!!! But that is on an individual level and not a macro level. )

Enough telling these people what to do. Time to think outside the box. I’m happy to see them finally challenging the system and standing up for themselves. I don't give a shit if they sell bananas or pot or start strip clubs or make wine (like one band in BC try the Merlot its great NK’MIP CELLARS – make sure you’re not wearing socks though it will knock them off if you have more than a glass or two) as long as there is the opportunity and as long as people can work.

We need more chiefs to stand up and challenge the system. If you think they’re better off shutting us and handing out the welfare cheques that you and I are paying for, I’m sure you’ll let us know that you’d rather spend money on welfare than have Natives participate in our system as truly equal partners. Once that happens then maybe we can start getting rid of tax exemptions and reserve lands and the other promises that we made in order to obtain legal title to the land we live on today. And that is the whole point, there was a trade and no matter how long ago it was, we are obligated to hold up our end of the bargain weather you just got your citizenship yesterday or you are 6th generation Canadian. You may not like it, but to fucking bad.

   



EyeBrock @ Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:17 pm

Good post.

   



Lemmy @ Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:25 pm

x2

R=UP

There is so much potential in our native population that is untapped because we've made them second-class citizens. We've created an endless cycle of bureaucracy, oppression and misunderstanding that needs to be stripped away in order to give these folks a decent chance to have meaningful lives. I can't fathom that anyone on any side of this debate would suggest that the status quo is the course to steer.

   



REPLY

Previous  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  Next