Canada Kicks Ass
First Nations ignore Canadian Law

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PJB @ Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:13 pm

Macguyver Macguyver:
I don't understand your objections to the Chief wanting to get something going for his band. He’s right the Indian Act leaves each band in a horrific quagmire of living as a ward of the state, and nothing can be done without approvals from some bureaucracy in Ottawa.

Cheers to him for at least attempting to get off his ass and generate some industry. Being stuck in the mud for 200 years and not being able to participate in the economy means that they have to start from 0 – and they have to start somewhere. I hear all the rednecks bitching that the fucking Indians should get off their asses and I agree, but then when someone tries to do something it’s a choice of either throwing another stone into the quagmire or breaking the law and putting their money where their mouth is – and the rednecks scream bloody murder.

So either you want the Indians to do something and get some real jobs so they are not living on the system or you are happy to be sending them cheques every month. It almost feels like if the Natives succeed some of you rednecks feel like you’re going to move down a spot and be the lowest class on the totem pole. And that makes sense that you would resent “natives’ actually achieving something and leaving you nothing to complain about (scratch that we’d have to eliminate all the immigrants first).

How about we embrace the fact that shit needs to be done for these people to get off our backs (where we put them right or wrong) – support thinking outside the box and fuck the law – if these people are willing to throw their ball sacks on the line in order to make a living and do better for themselves (and therefore us) then lets support that. I’d be happy as hell to have every First Nation with some industry and a source of jobs and income for the people instead of continually being forced to live on welfare.

Do you realize that if we invested more in economic development for these folks instead of writing welfare cheques, perhaps one day they would have jobs and they can tax themselves and actually contribute to their own destinies – which four us would mean less welfare burden and less taxes. Seems to me some of you would rather be able to complain about those welfare cheques than give these people a shot at living at the same standard (OMG OR BETTER???) than us.



Two reasons:

1. It is ILLEGAL

2. Promoting gambling that feeds off of the weak and selling cancer causing cigarettes that only contribute to the increasing healthcare costs.

Oh wait there is a third. Who makes the money off of the sales of illegal cigarettes? Not you, not me and not the band members. It is the gangs and other illegal organizations.

What's next...A brothel on reserve?

   



ShepherdsDog @ Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:00 pm

Never going to happen the lookers usually move to the city and or marry a white guy

   



andyt @ Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:54 am

Macguyver Macguyver:
We have (YES US) created a situation where we force people to either leave their homes and their friends and family and culture in order to assimilate with the like of you and I.


Yep. You want the rewards of the system you've got to play within it. You want to hang on to your traditional ways, and insist on living where there are no opportunities, you're always going to be sucking hind tit. The same was true for the Newfies before they struck oil, and all the equalizations payments weren't going to reverse that.

   



Macguyver @ Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:45 am

PJB PJB:


Two reasons:

1. It is ILLEGAL

2. Promoting gambling that feeds off of the weak and selling cancer causing cigarettes that only contribute to the increasing healthcare costs.

Oh wait there is a third. Who makes the money off of the sales of illegal cigarettes? Not you, not me and not the band members. It is the gangs and other illegal organizations.

What's next...A brothel on reserve?


At some point or another in history it was illegal for Indians to:
1) Hire a lawyer to enforce land claims – in the 1920’s when the Natives took objection to our grandfather’s father’s ignorance to the treaties Canada had signed – Natives tried to hire lawyers to enforce the legal terms of the treaties. The government undertook to make it illegal for Natives to retail council.
2) Vote – Indians could not vote so they had no political voice
3) Leave the reserve – They could not leave the reserve without a pass, being caught off the reserve without a pass meant jail.
4) School your kids at home – kids were forcibly removed to go to school
5) Organize a political group – When the native tribes tried to band together to create some political influence their assembly was made illegal
6) Participate in your native religion
7) Sell or produce goods – Without the permission of the Indian Agent, it was illegal to sell or produce goods – oh wait, sounds like it is still illegal to do this. And being trapped on the reserve with no political voice and no chance to participate in the economy – what do you suppose happens? And you’re happy to help keep holding their head under the water till the bubbles stop? Give me a fucking break, any group facing those obstacles is going to be dysfunctional. Throw in a hundred years of sexual molestation just for good measure to make sure we FUBAR their entire collective EGO and presto – welcome to 2011 where the associated cost to us white skins is probably in the neighbourhood of $10 Billion annually and growing.

And you’re worried about a few hundred cartons of cigarettes and gambling problems? Ever been to a bar lately that does not have VLT’s? What a bunch of horseshit. Give these fucking people a chance. If not for them, for the rest of us taxpayers who are sick of paying $10 billion a year cause you’ve gotta put more and more barriers up against folks we’ve screwed over and over and over again. That’s fucking pathetic.

   



Gunnair @ Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:09 am

andyt andyt:
Macguyver Macguyver:
I don't understand your objections to the Chief wanting to get something going for his band. He’s right the Indian Act leaves each band in a horrific quagmire of living as a ward of the state, and nothing can be done without approvals from some bureaucracy in Ottawa.

Cheers to him for at least attempting to get off his ass and generate some industry. Being stuck in the mud for 200 years and not being able to participate in the economy means that they have to start from 0 – and they have to start somewhere. I hear all the rednecks bitching that the fucking Indians should get off their asses and I agree, but then when someone tries to do something it’s a choice of either throwing another stone into the quagmire or breaking the law and putting their money where their mouth is – and the rednecks scream bloody murder.

So either you want the Indians to do something and get some real jobs so they are not living on the system or you are happy to be sending them cheques every month. It almost feels like if the Natives succeed some of you rednecks feel like you’re going to move down a spot and be the lowest class on the totem pole. And that makes sense that you would resent “natives’ actually achieving something and leaving you nothing to complain about (scratch that we’d have to eliminate all the immigrants first).

How about we embrace the fact that shit needs to be done for these people to get off our backs (where we put them right or wrong) – support thinking outside the box and fuck the law – if these people are willing to throw their ball sacks on the line in order to make a living and do better for themselves (and therefore us) then lets support that. I’d be happy as hell to have every First Nation with some industry and a source of jobs and income for the people instead of continually being forced to live on welfare.

Do you realize that if we invested more in economic development for these folks instead of writing welfare cheques, perhaps one day they would have jobs and they can tax themselves and actually contribute to their own destinies – which four us would mean less welfare burden and less taxes. Seems to me some of you would rather be able to complain about those welfare cheques than give these people a shot at living at the same standard (OMG OR BETTER???) than us.


Is there something genetically inferior about Indians that means they can't start legitimate businesses same as everybody else?

So you want government industrial investment for reservations? To do what, build phony jobs that aren't needed? What prevents Indians from living like the rest of us do - go where the jobs are, work and pay your taxes?

As for Indians putting their ballsacks on the line, what I've seen way too often is that some Fed Gov investment in an industry on reserve is announced to great fanfare. A while later, the project is in ruins, the money gone and never repaid, and everybody except the chief and his cronies are no better off. They never put their ballsacks on the line - they put our money on the line and if it doesn't work out, well fuck the white man.


$1:
Poverty costs us all money.


You should make up your mind. Maybe your sig should read:

$1:
White poverty costs us all money.

   



RUEZ @ Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:22 am

Macguyver Macguyver:
PJB PJB:


Two reasons:

1. It is ILLEGAL

2. Promoting gambling that feeds off of the weak and selling cancer causing cigarettes that only contribute to the increasing healthcare costs.

Oh wait there is a third. Who makes the money off of the sales of illegal cigarettes? Not you, not me and not the band members. It is the gangs and other illegal organizations.

What's next...A brothel on reserve?


At some point or another in history it was illegal for Indians to:
1) Hire a lawyer to enforce land claims – in the 1920’s when the Natives took objection to our grandfather’s father’s ignorance to the treaties Canada had signed – Natives tried to hire lawyers to enforce the legal terms of the treaties. The government undertook to make it illegal for Natives to retail council.
2) Vote – Indians could not vote so they had no political voice
3) Leave the reserve – They could not leave the reserve without a pass, being caught off the reserve without a pass meant jail.
4) School your kids at home – kids were forcibly removed to go to school
5) Organize a political group – When the native tribes tried to band together to create some political influence their assembly was made illegal
6) Participate in your native religion
7) Sell or produce goods – Without the permission of the Indian Agent, it was illegal to sell or produce goods – oh wait, sounds like it is still illegal to do this. And being trapped on the reserve with no political voice and no chance to participate in the economy – what do you suppose happens? And you’re happy to help keep holding their head under the water till the bubbles stop? Give me a fucking break, any group facing those obstacles is going to be dysfunctional. Throw in a hundred years of sexual molestation just for good measure to make sure we FUBAR their entire collective EGO and presto – welcome to 2011 where the associated cost to us white skins is probably in the neighbourhood of $10 Billion annually and growing.

And you’re worried about a few hundred cartons of cigarettes and gambling problems? Ever been to a bar lately that does not have VLT’s? What a bunch of horseshit. Give these fucking people a chance. If not for them, for the rest of us taxpayers who are sick of paying $10 billion a year cause you’ve gotta put more and more barriers up against folks we’ve screwed over and over and over again. That’s fucking pathetic.
Illogical. It's not illegal because they are native, it's illegal for anyone without the proper authority. So your reference to what I assume are correct examples of racism have no bearing on this story.

   



FieryVulpine @ Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:22 am

PJB PJB:
What's next...A brothel on reserve?

Shush, don't give them any ideas. :P

   



PublicAnimalNo9 @ Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:33 am

Curtman Curtman:
PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
I'm sorry but, I just don't see getting involved in the selling and providing of highly addictive substances and activities(cigarettes and gambling) making this Chief some sort of stand up guy.
You must be so proud Macguyver, although I didn't know liberals were all about spreading addiction and poverty around.


Is it somehow different from when our government does it?

Not in the least. I'm pretty disgusted by them too.

   



Brenda @ Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:37 am

PJB PJB:
What's next...A brothel on reserve?

Why not?
Legalize prostitution.

   



ShepherdsDog @ Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:47 am

We did a long time ago...it's called marriage :twisted:

   



Brenda @ Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:53 am

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
We did a long time ago...it's called marriage :twisted:

Make me a sammich, b*tch :twisted:

   



andyt @ Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:21 am

Gunnair Gunnair:
andyt andyt:
Macguyver Macguyver:
I don't understand your objections to the Chief wanting to get something going for his band. He’s right the Indian Act leaves each band in a horrific quagmire of living as a ward of the state, and nothing can be done without approvals from some bureaucracy in Ottawa.

Cheers to him for at least attempting to get off his ass and generate some industry. Being stuck in the mud for 200 years and not being able to participate in the economy means that they have to start from 0 – and they have to start somewhere. I hear all the rednecks bitching that the fucking Indians should get off their asses and I agree, but then when someone tries to do something it’s a choice of either throwing another stone into the quagmire or breaking the law and putting their money where their mouth is – and the rednecks scream bloody murder.

So either you want the Indians to do something and get some real jobs so they are not living on the system or you are happy to be sending them cheques every month. It almost feels like if the Natives succeed some of you rednecks feel like you’re going to move down a spot and be the lowest class on the totem pole. And that makes sense that you would resent “natives’ actually achieving something and leaving you nothing to complain about (scratch that we’d have to eliminate all the immigrants first).

How about we embrace the fact that shit needs to be done for these people to get off our backs (where we put them right or wrong) – support thinking outside the box and fuck the law – if these people are willing to throw their ball sacks on the line in order to make a living and do better for themselves (and therefore us) then lets support that. I’d be happy as hell to have every First Nation with some industry and a source of jobs and income for the people instead of continually being forced to live on welfare.

Do you realize that if we invested more in economic development for these folks instead of writing welfare cheques, perhaps one day they would have jobs and they can tax themselves and actually contribute to their own destinies – which four us would mean less welfare burden and less taxes. Seems to me some of you would rather be able to complain about those welfare cheques than give these people a shot at living at the same standard (OMG OR BETTER???) than us.


Is there something genetically inferior about Indians that means they can't start legitimate businesses same as everybody else?

So you want government industrial investment for reservations? To do what, build phony jobs that aren't needed? What prevents Indians from living like the rest of us do - go where the jobs are, work and pay your taxes?

As for Indians putting their ballsacks on the line, what I've seen way too often is that some Fed Gov investment in an industry on reserve is announced to great fanfare. A while later, the project is in ruins, the money gone and never repaid, and everybody except the chief and his cronies are no better off. They never put their ballsacks on the line - they put our money on the line and if it doesn't work out, well fuck the white man.


$1:
Poverty costs us all money.


You should make up your mind. Maybe your sig should read:

$1:
White poverty costs us all money.


I know, it's just way too complicated for your little brain.

Nowhere have I proposed just shovelling money at white people so they can sit around and do nothing. People have to do their part and get educations and be willing to go where the jobs are. People who can't work, sure, they should get support, doesn't matter their color. Poverty alleviation programs would help Natives disproportionately, because Natives are disproportionately poor. Great, but I don't believe in these targeted, Aboriginals only schemes. And I don't agree with Natives breaking laws under the excuse they're poor - no more than white people.

Hell, you probably agree with what I've written here, but you'd rather take an opportunity to get me. Where's your pride?

   



Zipperfish @ Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:30 am

Everyone has an easy answer to a complicated problem. Newsflash: Laying all the blame on the First Nations for being unmotivated or unable accept reality ain't gonna work. Laying all the blame on Canada for being racist ain't gonna work either. We need to blame someone else. Fucking Dubai!

Much as I gotta swallow bile to admit it, Gordon Campbell actually did more to address this nasty boil than anyone else I can think of in contemporary Canadian politics. And it got him no votes.

   



andyt @ Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:36 am

Zipperfish Zipperfish:
Everyone has an easy answer to a complicated problem. Newsflash: Laying all the blame on the First Nations for being unmotivated or unable accept reality ain't gonna work. Laying all the blame on Canada for being racist ain't gonna work either. We need to blame someone else. Fucking Dubai!

Much as I gotta swallow bile to admit it, Gordon Campbell actually did more to address this nasty boil than anyone else I can think of in contemporary Canadian politics. And it got him no votes.


Laying all the blame on FN's is the same as laying all the blame on any other poor person. But, they have some huge impediments in the way, promoted by their leaders, that I don't think we can do much about, they have to figure it out for themselves. (return to traditional ways, living on reserves nations, etc) Look at the success of Chief Louie of the Osoyoos band - there's a real success story, and he's a hardass with his own people - no excuses. Where I disagree with him is that he still sees Aboriginals as being separate, the whole First Nations deal. I understand the motivation, but I don't agree with that. It just creates a series of Bantustans and sets one group of people apart from all other Canadians, who are supposed to be equal. I think that's the true racism, not what I've said.

   



PublicAnimalNo9 @ Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:42 am

Macguyver Macguyver:


And you’re worried about a few hundred cartons of cigarettes and gambling problems?
A "few hundred" cartons? Put down the crack pipe and walk away slowly. The 6 Nations Reserve has permission to manufacture cigarettes, however they are only permitted to manufacture so many cigarettes a year. Most estimates though show them producing about 10 times what they are permitted.
Macguyver Macguyver:
Ever been to a bar lately that does not have VLT’s?
$1:
Yes, and frequently too.
Macguyver Macguyver:
What a bunch of horseshit. Give these fucking people a chance. If not for them, for the rest of us taxpayers who are sick of paying $10 billion a year cause you’ve gotta put more and more barriers up against folks we’ve screwed over and over and over again. That’s fucking pathetic.

So naturally, you back the solution that feeds addiction and has great potential to make others poor so this particular band can get "rich".
Sounds less like solving the problem and more like spreading the problem around.
I mean shit dude, it's not like the societal costs of tobacco and gambling are some big fucking mystery.

   



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