Canada Kicks Ass
Reconciliation Still A Long Way Off For Non-Native Canadians

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JaredMilne @ Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:15 am

“Reconciliation” is a popular word in Canada these days, especially in relation to Indigenous people. By reconciling with First Nations, Metis and Inuit people, the hope is that we can put the past behind us and move forward to a better future.

Sure, it sounds good on paper. But as many Indigenous people, such as scholar Chelsea Vowel and my own dear friend Sharon Morin have pointed out, before we can ever have reconciliation, we’ll need truth.

And right now, the truth is pretty ugly.

Just over two weeks ago, two women in Manitoba were arrested for uttering threats on Facebook, saying that a “24 hour purge” was needed for “shoot an Indian day”, adding that the “rez mutts need to stay on the rez”. When Colten Boushie was killed by Gerald Stanley in 2016, people said Stanley’s only mistake was that he “left witnesses”, and that he should have “shot all five and gotten a medal”. It got so bad that then-Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall called for people to stop it-and Wall wasn’t exactly a social justice warrior. If there was no racism in the Boushie case, then why would Wall have said what he did?

Similarly, most people seem to think that justice was served when Stanley was acquitted of Boushie’s killing, as well as when Raymond Cormier and Peter Khill were acquitted of the killings of Tina Fontaine and Jon Styres, respectively. But would Stanley, Cormier and Khill have been acquitted if the circumstances of their cases were the same, but the races were reversed and they were Indigenous defendants? If the case of Donald Marshall-who was convicted of murder after a trial lasting three days with little to no proof, and left to rot in jail for eleven years before his innocence was proven, with a later inquiry viciously condemning the bigotry and incompetence directed at him-is any indication, most people would have considered them guilty no matter what a jury decided.

That’s part of the truth.

Another part of the truth is to dispel the urban legends many people believe about Indigenous people getting huge sums of money to spend however they want, or that they don’t pay taxes. In fact, Indigenous tax exemptions are far narrower than most people realize. Federal bureaucrats themselves also admit that First Nations are severely underfunded. First Nations must also write dozens of reports for Ottawa explaining how they’ve spent their money-and many of those reports aren’t even read by Ottawa bureaucrats. And if that’s not enough, a reserve can always have third party management imposed.

With everything Indigenous people have to face in Canada, is it any wonder that there’s so much skepticism about reconciliation? All the things I’ve described make a mockery of everything we as Canadians claim our country stands for. The onus for change shouldn’t just be on Indigenous people.

In short, the simple truth is that we as non-Native Canadians have a very long way to go before reconciliation is possible.

   



Thanos @ Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:42 am

Counterpoint - we need far less apologies, not more of them:

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/colum ... apologists

$1:
Sorry. It’s the Canadian way. Apologies and handwringing are a cornerstone of our Canadian vernacular. Just say “sorry” and offer your regret.

Cut off someone in the produce section of the grocery store? Sorry.

Offer a different point of view or opinion? Sorry.

Is John A. Macdonald the first prime minister of your country? Sorry.

Whatever the offence, Canadians expect an apology. In this era of ready-packaged regret, our leaders are the great apology makers. Statements, removed statues, fawning tweets, and official plaques all mark our very best “sorries.” While an appropriately placed reparation might be helpful to mend divides, what we need today more than Canadian apologies are Canadian apologists.

Apologists are thoughtful people who make clear, cogent and concise arguments in defence of something. They might contend for democracy, or free speech, or a value, or a political perspective, or a religious point of view.

Canada needs a new generation of apologists. Canada needs people who defend the federation. Canada needs leaders, politicians and thinkers who make clear arguments for Canada as a country, as an ideal, and as a people who have something to say. Canada needs people who are proud of our country, our talents, our resources, our diversity, our economy, our history, and know how to say so. After the sorries are over, we need to craft new language that celebrates and gives a reason for our great nation. Canada needs a robust and well articulated apologetic.

We’re often sorry to be Canadian, but we shouldn’t be. We have a country worth celebrating, worth defending and worth articulating in the global forum of ideas. And it is this clear articulation of ideas that is often sacrificed on the altar of the immediate apology.

Consider MP Maxime Bernier. He shared some views on Twitter that caused a firestorm of demands, not for a clearer articulation of his views, not for an apologetic for his perspective, but an apology. Consider the heckler at that rally in Quebec, or Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s response to her. Politicos and partisan onlookers made demands, not for a cogent reasoning between opposing views, but an apology from one side or the other.

Demands for apologies are the great clean sweep of pressing issues that divide us. Simply demand a heartfelt “sorry” and the issue is covered and buried, we might even score a vapid political point or two in the process. But when our only tool is a bludgeon that beats apologies out of our adversaries, it’s time for a new toolkit. What if our demands were deeper than a coerced “sorry”? What if we urged politicians to explain themselves, and actually listened, and took care in our critique? What if question period in the House of Commons was about answering questions, not barking for apologies? What if our politicians were truly apologists who clearly made a case for their point of view, listened to other options, conceded where appropriate, and courageously advanced the tone and content of our civic dialogue?

It’s time we apologize less and craft a fresh apologetic for what we believe and hold dear. Canada needs thoughtful apologists who craft a defensible vision for our country. Canada is a place and a people, but it is also an idea. Ideas need people who clearly contend for them, and work to make them better. Our country is worth it, and that’s something I won’t apologize for.


My apologies stopped when left-wing assholes started tearing down statues of our founders. I'm not interested in more mea culpas on the part of white Canadians until this SJW insanity stops. "Reconciliation", as it's defined as endless guilt not just for the current generation of non-Natives but also for every single future generation of Canadians yet to come, is now a dirty word to me. If that offends anyone then too fucking bad because NO MORE APOLOGIES, period. :evil:

   



fifeboy @ Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:49 am

JaredMilne JaredMilne:
“Reconciliation” is a popular word in Canada these days, especially in relation to Indigenous people. By reconciling with First Nations, Metis and Inuit people, the hope is that we can put the past behind us and move forward to a better future.

Sure, it sounds good on paper. But as many Indigenous people, such as scholar Chelsea Vowel and my own dear friend Sharon Morin have pointed out, before we can ever have reconciliation, we’ll need truth.

And right now, the truth is pretty ugly.

Just over two weeks ago, two women in Manitoba were arrested for uttering threats on Facebook, saying that a “24 hour purge” was needed for “shoot an Indian day”, adding that the “rez mutts need to stay on the rez”. When Colten Boushie was killed by Gerald Stanley in 2016, people said Stanley’s only mistake was that he “left witnesses”, and that he should have “shot all five and gotten a medal”. It got so bad that then-Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall called for people to stop it-and Wall wasn’t exactly a social justice warrior. If there was no racism in the Boushie case, then why would Wall have said what he did?

Similarly, most people seem to think that justice was served when Stanley was acquitted of Boushie’s killing, as well as when Raymond Cormier and Peter Khill were acquitted of the killings of Tina Fontaine and Jon Styres, respectively. But would Stanley, Cormier and Khill have been acquitted if the circumstances of their cases were the same, but the races were reversed and they were Indigenous defendants? If the case of Donald Marshall-who was convicted of murder after a trial lasting three days with little to no proof, and left to rot in jail for eleven years before his innocence was proven, with a later inquiry viciously condemning the bigotry and incompetence directed at him-is any indication, most people would have considered them guilty no matter what a jury decided.

That’s part of the truth.

Another part of the truth is to dispel the urban legends many people believe about Indigenous people getting huge sums of money to spend however they want, or that they don’t pay taxes. In fact, Indigenous tax exemptions are far narrower than most people realize. Federal bureaucrats themselves also admit that First Nations are severely underfunded. First Nations must also write dozens of reports for Ottawa explaining how they’ve spent their money-and many of those reports aren’t even read by Ottawa bureaucrats. And if that’s not enough, a reserve can always have third party management imposed.

With everything Indigenous people have to face in Canada, is it any wonder that there’s so much skepticism about reconciliation? All the things I’ve described make a mockery of everything we as Canadians claim our country stands for. The onus for change shouldn’t just be on Indigenous people.

In short, the simple truth is that we as non-Native Canadians have a very long way to go before reconciliation is possible.


Well said!

   



Coach85 @ Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:22 am

JaredMilne JaredMilne:

With everything Indigenous people have to face in Canada, is it any wonder that there’s so much skepticism about reconciliation? All the things I’ve described make a mockery of everything we as Canadians claim our country stands for. The onus for change shouldn’t just be on Indigenous people.


Excuses.

Let's remind all that this is 2018.

This is the most open, accepting and diverse our Country has ever been. There is so much opportunity for people of all backgrounds to succeed.

JaredMilne JaredMilne:
In short, the simple truth is that we as non-Native Canadians have a very long way to go before reconciliation is possible.


There will never been reconciliation. We can stop chasing that.

As we've seen with the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women Inquiry, it's been filled with problems as the First Nations people don't like some of the outcomes, the people running it, etc. They only want results that prove their existing opinions or biases, not the truth. Many want this inquiry to tell them that the white man has been kidnapping and murdering their people but we all know what the outcome is going to be and FN's won't accept it.

Reconciliation may be possible if First Nations people also took some of the blame for their own circumstances but that's unlikely and round and round the excuse machine turns.

   



housewife @ Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:57 pm

Coach85 and how many fn do you know that let’s you speak for them?

   



Coach85 @ Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 pm

housewife housewife:
Coach85 and how many fn do you know that let’s you speak for them?


Is there a magic number that makes one able to speak to this subject?

Nothing I've shared indicated I'm speaking for anyone. I've made reference to things that are widely publicized in the media with respect to MMAW and the subject of lack of accountability is widely known and covered.

That said, truth is something that applies to everyone. Even First Nations people.

Some First Nations people are racist, just as white/brown/black people are. They don't have a right to be racist towards anyone as some have suggested.

First Nations communities are ripe with alcohol and drug abuse. The blame for that doesn't lie at the feet of the rest of Canada.

First Nations women often go missing or are murdered by other First Nations people. Again, that blame isn't the fault of the rest of Canada. When that comes out of the report, FN's will denounce the report as they have done before when the same information was released.

In order to actually move on as a society of Canadians and First Nations people, we have to be open and willing to discuss all problems, their causes and their solutions without cries of racism at every turn.

   



herbie @ Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:46 pm

I understand. Reconciliation should mean they forgive us and we shouldn't have to acknowledge or apologize for anything and can keep worshiping monuments of those guilty of offenses against them.

   



JaredMilne @ Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:47 pm

Thanos Thanos:
Counterpoint - we need far less apologies, not more of them:

My apologies stopped when left-wing assholes started tearing down statues of our founders. I'm not interested in more mea culpas on the part of white Canadians until this SJW insanity stops. "Reconciliation", as it's defined as endless guilt not just for the current generation of non-Natives but also for every single future generation of Canadians yet to come, is now a dirty word to me. If that offends anyone then too fucking bad because NO MORE APOLOGIES, period. :evil:


Believe it or not, Bruce McAllister and I are actually on the same page here.

I oppose taking down the statues of people like John A. Macdonald for exactly the reason you outline above. It makes non-Natives feel like we have no right to take pride in or have a positive connection to our own national identities. I'm actually going to try and get an essay published later this year or early the next about that-making people ashamed of their identities and their own nationalities won't help your cause.

The thing is that I am raising these issues precisely because I love Canada and I want it to actually live up to the values we say it stands for. There are plenty of Indigenous people who actually don't mind the same thing-even the protesters who erected the tipi on Parliament Hill during last year's Canada Day look forward to it. The problem is that too many of us still don't realize how deep the problems run and expect the Natives to be the only ones who have to change...and as I pointed out, there are still too many people who'd love to see the Natives all dead.

Acknowledging and addressing the shitty parts of our history can help us take more pride in the good parts of it. I'm a perfect example-if you don't think I can be called Captain Canada, then you don't know me.

You mentioned in the thread on the John A. Macdonald statue being removed in Victoria that you could live with the Treaties being in place, if that doesn't mean we have to feel shame about who we are. That's part of what things like the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples were actually meant for-getting beyond the cycle we're stuck in now, and is the main thrust of what a lot of Native activists actually want. Acting on what they're proposing would probably go a long way towards putting an end to any need for mea culpas.

Just as the far-right nuts make all conservatives look bad by association, so too do a few of the far-left Native activists make the rest of them look bad. Even then, they aren't the ones that piss me off. The ones that really drive me nuts are the non-Native radical activists who really do want the rest of us to be ashamed of who we are, or who peddle shit like saying the victims of 9/11 deserved it (and Ward Churchill, for the record, is a fake Indian).

There's a lot of overlap with the Black Bloc assholes who spend so much time trashing the livelihoods of the working people they claim to be fighting for, but that's a rant for another day...

And if it helps at all, the Natives are by no means unanimous on removing statues.

One Sioux Cree guy living in Kingston says the statue should stay up.

The Native Council of PEI says that the statue of Macdonald in Charlottetown should stay in place.

The Mi'kmaq Confederacy Chiefs of PEI feel the same way.

Senator Murray Sinclair is more interested in honouring Indigenous historical figures in the same way as white figures like Macdonald, than in taking down existing statues. There's even precedent for this, such as with the statue of Crowfoot in the Alberta Legislature.

According to one Twitter post I came across, even Victoria itself is planning to bring the Macdonald statue back with some new plaques that show both the good and bad sides of his legacy. If this is true, then so much the better.

   



BRAH @ Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:08 pm

FFS we have nothing to apologise for except Celine Dion.

   



Tricks @ Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:42 pm

BRAH BRAH:
FFS we have nothing to apologise for except Celine Dion.

Justin Bieber?

   



housewife @ Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:51 pm

Nope but that wasn't what I was commenting on but this

Coach85 Coach85:

As we've seen with the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women Inquiry, it's been filled with problems as the First Nations people don't like some of the outcomes, the people running it, etc. They only want results that prove their existing opinions or biases, not the truth. Many want this inquiry to tell them that the white man has been kidnapping and murdering their people but we all know what the outcome is going to be and FN's won't accept it.

Reconciliation may be possible if First Nations people also took some of the blame for their own circumstances but that's unlikely and round and round the excuse machine turns.
.

If the "many" isn't you speaking for people then it was a very poor choice of words.


Coach85 Coach85:
housewife housewife:
Coach85 and how many fn do you know that let’s you speak for them?


Is there a magic number that makes one able to speak to this subject?

Nothing I've shared indicated I'm speaking for anyone. I've made reference to things that are widely publicized in the media with respect to MMAW and the subject of lack of accountability is widely known and covered.

That said, truth is something that applies to everyone. Even First Nations people.

Some First Nations people are racist, just as white/brown/black people are. They don't have a right to be racist towards anyone as some have suggested.

First Nations communities are ripe with alcohol and drug abuse. The blame for that doesn't lie at the feet of the rest of Canada.

First Nations women often go missing or are murdered by other First Nations people. Again, that blame isn't the fault of the rest of Canada. When that comes out of the report, FN's will denounce the report as they have done before when the same information was released.

In order to actually move on as a society of Canadians and First Nations people, we have to be open and willing to discuss all problems, their causes and their solutions without cries of racism at every turn.


Truth would be nice

First Nations from my experience is more likely to be racist against each other than an other race. It's getting better but it's still an issue.

Drugs and alcohol is a huge problem everywhere and I'm not going to play the blame game.

From the very few cases I have read about the families want answers. No mater what the answers are. They want police to take them seriously.

As to an open and willing discussion what do you think people are trying. A few scream in the paper and half the world assumes that they speak for all. Thing have been changing mostly cause we are now allowed to own things, manage our personal money, indian agents aren't allowed to change the will any more and the bigies since the 1960 we are allowed to vote, hire a lawyer and get a higher education. Heck we don't even need a special permit to leave the reserve any more.

   



housewife @ Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:51 pm

Tricks Tricks:
BRAH BRAH:
FFS we have nothing to apologise for except Celine Dion.

Justin Bieber?




Someone should apologise for both of them :lol:

   



llama66 @ Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:44 am

Brian Adams too.

   



CharlesAnthony @ Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:06 am

JaredMilne JaredMilne:
In short, the simple truth is that we as non-Native Canadians have a very long way to go before reconciliation is possible.
It does not have to be that way. It is possible for non-natives to find commonalities with natives.

The non-native population could simply say unequivocably: "Do not blame us. We did nothing. We were not alive then. Blame the people who did something to you and we will be on your side to collect damages from their descendants."

   



Tricks @ Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:14 am

llama66 llama66:
Brian Adams too.

Rude.

   



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