Canada Kicks Ass
Stanley trial is going to end badly no matter the finding

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Mowich @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:41 am

DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
I wasn't intending to be obtuse, I was trying to point out that an apology doesn't cut it, despite the "legality" of the actions. Slavery was legal. The Holocaust was legal. Apartheid was legal.

I think most Canadians agree which is why this government is moving towards reconciliation.


Holding those long dead responsible for their deeds isn't going to change anything. Neither is holding me responsible. What more besides an apology, equality, reconciliation, and moving towards honouring it's treaty obligations can Canada offer?

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

"Might"? You can't even bring yourself to acknowledge that there is a problem of racism against indigenous peoples in Canada.


Yes, 'might'. I don't doubt that there are people in Canada experiencing racism. But I look around me, and in my direct team of a dozen or so people, 3 are European (or 'Canadian' if you like. I don't see myself as 'White' even though only something like 33/64ths of me is). Two of the 12 Directors in the building are European. We get a weekly newsletter from the company I work for , showing the dozen or so people hired that week. One or two might be European.

Some people in Canada experience racism, but I don't see it as systemic nor institutional. And, not from me. I don't really deal with many First Nations in my line of work, so I don't see what they experience today. However, working at the Provincial Tax department, I do see how they act towards us. Hateful, resentful, belligerent - those are good adverbs. We are in the way of them selling Cigarettes and gasoline on reserve, and they hate us for it. But taxes must be paid, even if they are exempt.

I did grow up with some First Nations. The local Band had no high school, so they were bused to ours. I saw some people who did discriminate against them, but I also saw they had exactly the same opportunities as the rest of us.

In fact, last night a old friend from that reserve posted something on Facebook on this subject. She couldn't believe how some Ineshenabe were being fooled into thinking Colton Boushie was murdered by a white farmer, and how could they not see Boushie and his friends were the criminals, not the victims. 'Followers, not leaders' she called the FNs that were joining the protests for 'Justice for Boushie'.

So yes, Canada 'might' have a problem with racism against First Nations. But it's not all First Nations people, and it's not all Canadians.

Zipperfish Zipperfish:
$1:
It's also telling that you want to hold me responsible for things that happened before I was born, but don't want to hold the family accountable for how they raised the child. When I was growing up, it was more than rude to drive up to someone's house with a rifle and try to steal their stuff. Kids learn things like that from somewhere, either from example or by inaction. That leads to his family bearing some responsibility for him.


Kids do learn things. The kind of things learned on a reserve--where most of the elders were taken from their families to residential schools, is probably a lot different. The elders didn't learn from there parents. They were taken from them and taught by nuns to get the Indian out of them, often beaten and abused. Then sent back. So that's clearly going to create a big schism and you shouldn't expect that their upbringing would be similar to yours.


I understand the family instincts were driven out of these people by a cruel and horrific system. I don't expect them to be like me, or think like me. But I also understand if they want the justice they seek from Canada, then they also have to apply that same Justice.

Kiora Wuttunee, Boushee's girlfriend, was subpoenaed to testify at the trial. She did not show, and had a warrant issued for her arrest. Her father is a former Chief.

Cassidy Cross-Whitstone lied in his statement. His father is also a former Chief.

Basically everyone in that car has a father who was a former chief of that first nation, and every one of those Chiefs has been removed from office for corruption, or was at the same time as the Gerald Stanley trial was proceeding, were themselves on trial for corruption.

I don't want to sound like I'm blaming the victim here, but the fact is that everyone in that vehicle, with the exception of mystery person "Belinda Jackson", has a past with some sort of run in with the law. Except, Gerald Stanley. It doesn't make a death any less tragic, but it does put some perspective on it.

Residential School may very well have played a part in the poor upbringing of people on the Red Pheasant First Nation, but learning by example would be the prime fact it seems. And using Residential schools as the reason for poor behavior only will be valid for so long. If the former Chief wants 'Justice' for his son, perhaps he should conduct himself in the way he wants his world to be. As Ghandi said, "Be the change you wish to see in the World".


R=UP

   



Zipperfish @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:47 am

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Anyone who has to suffer racism is a victim. Victimhood isn't determined by race. Millions of whites were butchered wholesale for the simple fact that they worshipped the same god as their butchers on a different day. If you want to equate treaty violations in BC with what happened in Stanley's yard, and trivialize what people went through just because they have lighter skin, then you're just a big a racist as those you are condemning. Speaking of being disingenuous or hypocritical.


This is like a seven steps thing. First there was denial. "There's no racism. This is Canada!" "Umm actually the posts at either side of yours are pretty racist." "Oh well I don't read them."

Now on to anger, it seems. How dare I trivialize the suffering of white people with my insistence that Canada has a race problem with indigenous peoples. I'm the real racist here.

   



martin14 @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:51 am

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Speaking of being disingenuous or hypocritical.



Zippy the hypocrite.

That's his best practise.

   



ShepherdsDog @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:52 am

Yes, yes you are. You can't see it and are unable to admit it. Racists come in all colours, not just pink. You've seen a bit of the world, you should realize this.

$1:
Zippy the hypocrite.

That's his best practise.


He has valid points, but like everyone else in the world, he's biased.

   



Zipperfish @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:57 am

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Yes, yes you are. You can't see it and are unable to admit it. Racists come in all colours, not just pink. You've seen a bit of the world, you should realize this.


C'mon, you are going to have to do a little better than "No I'm not, you are."

Against white people? Against Indians? It's hard not to be racist when you are passionate about racism against indigenous people I Canada. You're stuck in that language, that sociological milieu. It becomes the default prism through which you view things.

   



CharlesAnthony @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:09 pm

Zipperfish Zipperfish:
It becomes the default prism through which you view things.
That is the game plan: control public discussion so that everybody-regardless-of-opinion is forced to discuss social problems in terms of race.
A generation ago, social problems were dicussed in terms of class warfare for the same reason.

Discussing social problems by pointing to culpable individuals and their living heirs will not be allowed.

   



ShepherdsDog @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:13 pm

Zipperfish Zipperfish:
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Yes, yes you are. You can't see it and are unable to admit it. Racists come in all colours, not just pink. You've seen a bit of the world, you should realize this.


C'mon, you are going to have to do a little better than "No I'm not, you are."

Against white people? Against Indians? It's hard not to be racist when you are passionate about racism against indigenous people I Canada. You're stuck in that language, that sociological milieu. It becomes the default prism through which you view things.


Were you addressing your mirror when you typed that. Racism should not be tolerated whether it's a white screaming he hates natives or a native screaming they hate whites. Both are equally reprehensible and should be condemned equally. Yet, hypocrites are saying suck it up butter cup if it's the Indian saying it to the white.

   



herbie @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:20 pm

Then go back to using class terms instead of pointing back and forth playing who's the racist.
The claims of racial bias in the system are only enhanced by those in the majority never failing to point out the race of the accusers.

   



Zipperfish @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:34 pm

CharlesAnthony CharlesAnthony:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
It becomes the default prism through which you view things.
That is the game plan: control public discussion so that everybody-regardless-of-opinion is forced to discuss social problems in terms of race.
A generation ago, social problems were dicussed in terms of class warfare for the same reason.

Discussing social problems by pointing to culpable individuals and their living heirs will not be allowed.


This is true. In pre-Revolutionary France it was a given that the peasants were not fit for aristocracy. I mean just look at the jails--they were filled with peasants, nary an aristocrat to be found. One needed only to walk down the streets of the poor quarters to see the depravity and criminality of the lower classes. What more evidence was needed to show that it was good to keep the peasants down?

   



Zipperfish @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:35 pm

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Were you addressing your mirror when you typed that.


Yes.

   



PluggyRug @ Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:36 pm

Zipperfish Zipperfish:
CharlesAnthony CharlesAnthony:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
It becomes the default prism through which you view things.
That is the game plan: control public discussion so that everybody-regardless-of-opinion is forced to discuss social problems in terms of race.
A generation ago, social problems were dicussed in terms of class warfare for the same reason.

Discussing social problems by pointing to culpable individuals and their living heirs will not be allowed.


This is true. In pre-Revolutionary France it was a given that the peasants were not fit for aristocracy. I mean just look at the jails--they were filled with peasants, nary an aristocrat to be found. One needed only to walk down the streets of the poor quarters to see the depravity and criminality of the lower classes. What more evidence was needed to show that it was good to keep the peasants down?


For balance one should also look at post revolutionary France.

   



BRAH @ Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:24 am

Zipperfish Zipperfish:
BRAH BRAH:
The folks in BC who are against the Kinder Morgan pipeline are hypocrites who drive vehicles that run on fuel made from a rainbow of Skittles.


I've seen V8s parked at pipeline protests.

Was this at the Kinder Morgan protest in North Burnaby where protesters couldn't find parking for their vehicles? :lol:

   



Freakinoldguy @ Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:22 pm

herbie herbie:
Then go back to using class terms instead of pointing back and forth playing who's the racist.



If Boushie's and Stanley's race hadn't been mentioned and were deemed irrelevant by the media, the catalyst for our Gov't to go off the rails and hand the keys to the kingdom over to a special interest group would never have happened and this discussion would be moot.

Also, given that rich people commit crimes regularly the media doesn't even have to mention the "socio economic" background of these people because, that information could be construed as inflammatory and be used as an excuse for the commission of a crime.

So long story short. Name the crime, name the perp, name the sentence and leave the rest up to peoples imagination.

Like that's going to happen. XD

   



Coach85 @ Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:08 pm

Zipperfish Zipperfish:
Coach85 Coach85:
That's a two-way street.

Anti-white racism is wide-spread within our First Nations communities.


Yes, let's talk about the real victims here. White people.


Juvenile response.

Racism exists in First Nations communities. You're part of the problem. You see the relationship between First Nations and Canada as a 1-way street.

   



Mowich @ Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:37 pm

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:
herbie herbie:
Then go back to using class terms instead of pointing back and forth playing who's the racist.



If Boushie's and Stanley's race hadn't been mentioned and were deemed irrelevant by the media, the catalyst for our Gov't to go off the rails and hand the keys to the kingdom over to a special interest group would never have happened and this discussion would be moot.

Also, given that rich people commit crimes regularly the media doesn't even have to mention the "socio economic" background of these people because, that information could be construed as inflammatory and be used as an excuse for the commission of a crime.

So long story short. Name the crime, name the perp, name the sentence and leave the rest up to peoples imagination.

Like that's going to happen. XD


R=UP

   



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