General-purpose NDP rap thread
Rev_Blair @ Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:44 pm
The NDP has floundered a bit since Jamey Heath left, Firecat. He was a hell of strategist/spinner, and his absence is being felt. I don't think the party, or Layton, is as adrift as people tend to think though.
Layton managed to get Bill C-30 (Clean Air Act) sent to committee. That's a major coup. So were the NDP amendments to the Accountability Act...the Conservatives had made such a mess of that, that without the amendments it was really nothing more than a partisan attack on the Liberals. The private member's bill to help veterans passed, although the Conservatives voted against it and it remains to be seen if it will be instituted.
There are several other examples. The policies are there, the questions, both in committee and during Question Period, are there. What's been missing is the press coverage. I think that's where Heath being gone has hurt the most. I doubt that replacing Layton will solve that problem though...it's been an issue since Tommy Douglas first tossed his hat into the ring and, if anything, Layton has gotten more coverage from the right-leaning press in this coverage than most.
There's also the issue of who you'd replace Layton with. I can think of several candidates, including my own MP, who would all be excellent. They are older than Layton though, and the next leader should likely represent a changing of the generations. While there are several younger people waiting in the wings, I can think of none who are experienced enough yet.
Where the NDP needs to do more work is on the prairies. The Conservatives have alienated a lot of farmers with their mishandling of the CWB and other farm issues. The farmers are looking for somebody else to vote for. The NDP needs to spend more time out here, specifically on the CWB.
Firecat @ Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:02 pm
Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:
The NDP has floundered a bit since Jamey Heath left, Firecat. He was a hell of strategist/spinner, and his absence is being felt. I don't think the party, or Layton, is as adrift as people tend to think though.
Layton managed to get Bill C-30 (Clean Air Act) sent to committee. That's a major coup. So were the NDP amendments to the Accountability Act...the Conservatives had made such a mess of that, that without the amendments it was really nothing more than a partisan attack on the Liberals. The private member's bill to help veterans passed, although the Conservatives voted against it and it remains to be seen if it will be instituted.
There are several other examples. The policies are there, the questions, both in committee and during Question Period, are there. What's been missing is the press coverage. I think that's where Heath being gone has hurt the most. I doubt that replacing Layton will solve that problem though...it's been an issue since Tommy Douglas first tossed his hat into the ring and, if anything, Layton has gotten more coverage from the right-leaning press in this coverage than most.
There's also the issue of who you'd replace Layton with. I can think of several candidates, including my own MP, who would all be excellent. They are older than Layton though, and the next leader should likely represent a changing of the generations. While there are several younger people waiting in the wings, I can think of none who are experienced enough yet.
Where the NDP needs to do more work is on the prairies. The Conservatives have alienated a lot of farmers with their mishandling of the CWB and other farm issues. The farmers are looking for somebody else to vote for. The NDP needs to spend more time out here, specifically on the CWB.
Layton managed to get Bill C-30 (Clean Air Act) sent to committee. That's a major coup. So were the NDP amendments to the Accountability Act...the Conservatives had made such a mess of that, that without the amendments it was really nothing more than a partisan attack on the Liberals. The private member's bill to help veterans passed, although the Conservatives voted against it and it remains to be seen if it will be instituted.
There are several other examples. The policies are there, the questions, both in committee and during Question Period, are there. What's been missing is the press coverage. I think that's where Heath being gone has hurt the most. I doubt that replacing Layton will solve that problem though...it's been an issue since Tommy Douglas first tossed his hat into the ring and, if anything, Layton has gotten more coverage from the right-leaning press in this coverage than most.
There's also the issue of who you'd replace Layton with. I can think of several candidates, including my own MP, who would all be excellent. They are older than Layton though, and the next leader should likely represent a changing of the generations. While there are several younger people waiting in the wings, I can think of none who are experienced enough yet.
Where the NDP needs to do more work is on the prairies. The Conservatives have alienated a lot of farmers with their mishandling of the CWB and other farm issues. The farmers are looking for somebody else to vote for. The NDP needs to spend more time out here, specifically on the CWB.
For all Jack Layton has managed to do, he hasn't attracted the coverage and just lacks the "royal jelly".
I think we're at a cusp where where a dynamic leader must emerge to set a real stamp on our country's course. This is an unusual circumstance in politics where each party can have equal footing in election momentum. I would like us to seize it and not miss this chance to be able to place before the electorate our political views for the future of our country, without being burdened with past scandals or issues of personality.
Streaker @ Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:43 pm
Hey Firecat, according to Iggy you're a Conservative mole... so piss off! 
Firecat @ Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:06 pm
Streaker Streaker:
Hey Firecat, according to Iggy you're a Conservative mole... so piss off!
So I read. Darn, my cover has been blown . If I am to be shot as a spy I want my last cigarette to be a joint. Is that okay?
Rev_Blair @ Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:51 pm
$1:
For all Jack Layton has managed to do, he hasn't attracted the coverage and just lacks the "royal jelly".
He's gotten more coverage than any leader since Broadbent. Considering how far right the press has moved in this country over the last decade or so, I'd say that's a pretty decent achievement.
$1:
I think we're at a cusp where where a dynamic leader must emerge to set a real stamp on our country's course. This is an unusual circumstance in politics where each party can have equal footing in election momentum. I would like us to seize it and not miss this chance to be able to place before the electorate our political views for the future of our country, without being burdened with past scandals or issues of personality.
Who do you have in mind? I can see Paul Dewar making a decent run in a few years, and there are some people presently without seats who might be okay, but again they need more experience. Several of the older crowd would be decent...Bill Blaikie and Judy Wasylycia-Leis come to mind...but I doubt they'd be better than Layton and it wouldn't pass the torch down the generations.
If you want more dynamicism, I'd say where the change needs to be made is in the back rooms. I don't know if you get the NDP press releases, but they lack the kind of edge that generates interest in the news rooms.
We missed the beginning of the CWB fight because, although the NDP has done a good job of making it an issue in Ottawa, the farmers live in Manitoba and Saskatchewan. That's a good example of where the NDP could get positive press without depending on the national outlets...a few stories in the rural papers is what makes the difference on issues like that.
The response to Dion winning the Liberal leadership was lacklustre at best, negative at worst.
There is little internet presence by the NDP on the internet too. That's an area where they could make some serious inroads. especially with young people.
The NDP has the policies right, which is really Layton's job. Where we're missing is getting the message out, and it's the job of party strategists and press liasons to do that.
Arctic_Menace @ Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:09 pm
$1:
He's gotten more coverage than any leader since Broadbent.
EEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!!!
I love that guy! He came to my highschool once, and was a totally chill guy!
$1:
I can see Paul Dewar making a decent run in a few years,
Paul Dewar used to be a teacher at my Junior High School(Hopewell). I think he'd be an alright leader of the NDP, but he doesn't seem to have the flare, tenacity and "sparkle in his eye" that Jack Layton has. However, I think he'd(Paul) piss off far less people the way Jack has...
If the NDP could really grab the youth vote and encourage them to vote, we might have a chance at an NDP minority government...
Rev_Blair @ Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:55 pm
$1:
I love that guy! He came to my highschool once, and was a totally chill guy!
Yeah, he's always been like that. I remember seeing him at some meeting when I was 12 or so...and incredibly pissed off that I'd been dragged along. He talked to a group of us...all sullen because we were forced to be there. He treated us like adults and explained a bit about how politics worked.
How many other political leaders would even talk to a group of kids with no cameras around for a photo-op? Not many.
$1:
Paul Dewar used to be a teacher at my Junior High School(Hopewell). I think he'd be an alright leader of the NDP, but he doesn't seem to have the flare, tenacity and "sparkle in his eye" that Jack Layton has. However, I think he'd(Paul) piss off far less people the way Jack has...
I only know Dewar through TV and through his reputation. I've seen of his speeches in the House though, and he seemed really good. Not many politicians bother putting much energy into speeches in the H of C these days.
$1:
If the NDP could really grab the youth vote and encourage them to vote, we might have a chance at an NDP minority government...
That would help a lot.
I don't think anybody has found the magic formula to getting kids interested in politics though.
Arctic_Menace @ Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:04 pm
$1:
I don't think anybody has found the magic formula to getting kids interested in politics though.
Ed and Jack have made advances, though. However, they still have a far way to go...
Arctic_Menace @ Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:04 pm
$1:
I only know Dewar through TV and through his reputation. I've seen of his speeches in the House though, and he seemed really good. Not many politicians bother putting much energy into speeches in the H of C these days.
That's because he knew how to make classes interesting. Everyone loved him... It's no surprise he'd know how to make a really good speech...
Firecat @ Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:05 pm
Paul Dewar has that youth appeal.
Streaker @ Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:06 pm
Firecat Firecat:
Streaker Streaker:
Hey Firecat, according to Iggy you're a Conservative mole... so piss off!
So I read. Darn, my cover has been blown . If I am to be shot as a spy I want my last cigarette to be a joint. Is that okay?
No firing squads here. But go ahead and enjoy the joint anyways....
Arctic_Menace @ Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:09 pm
$1:
No firing squads here. But go ahead and enjoy the joint anyways....
Don't forget to pass that shit.
Streaker @ Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:27 pm
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
$1:
No firing squads here. But go ahead and enjoy the joint anyways....
Don't forget to pass that shit.
Even though it turns out that you're another Conservative mole, Arky, we'll be sure to pass you the joint - no bogarting here!
Arctic_Menace @ Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:31 pm
Shit!!! I've been found out! Abort mission Liberal-Downfall!!!
Arctic_Menace @ Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:32 pm
Somehow, I know Iggy is going to ignore the fact that I am here expressing very Liberal views, and just focus on calling me a cock-sucker...