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Okay so here’s a topic that’s been bugging me for a little while I want people from Ontario’s opinion on this (although all opinions are welcome). Depending on reaction I may decide to try and find others to help me approach the Ontario government to propose this idea.
First a little background on me. I was an insurance broker in Ontario from 1992-1999 when I joined the Navy and moved to B.C. In 2007 I left the Navy and became an insurance broker in B.C. until July, 2009 when I left B.C. and moved back to Ontario where I am currently an insurance broker again here in Toronto. I currently sell all lines of personal and commercial property and liability insurance here and I did the same in B.C. Recently I noticed several glaring deficiencies in Ontario’s delivery of auto insurance, deficiencies that do not exist in B.C. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the system in B.C., mandatory auto insurance coverages are sold by the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia (ICBC). You can only purchase the mandatory coverages ($200,000 liability, Uninsured Automobile, Unidentified Automobile, and Accident Benefits) from ICBC through Atuoplan brokers (which is pretty much any insurance broker in B.C.). Optional coverages (higher liability limits, collision coverage, comprehensive coverage, specified perils coverage, etc) can be purchased from ICBC or through a private insurance company. In Ontario all coverages are purchased through private insurance companies. Also in B.C. vehicle registration and plating is done at the insurance broker’s office, as opposed to Ontario where insurance is done at one place and vehicle registration/licensing is done at another location.
There are certain products offered in B.C. that are not offered in Ontario, and quite frankly they would never be offered in Ontario as no private insurer would see it worth their while to offer such products. In particular I’m referring to:
- Temporary Operating Permits – Insurance and vehicle license combined that lasts from 1-15 days (something I believe is desperately needed in Ontario);
- Storage policies – Physical damage coverage (and optional liability coverage arising from the ownership but not the use of the vehicle) for vehicles in short term or long term storage;
- Insurance for vehicles residents purchase in another province/state in order to drive the vehicle back to the province;
- Insurance and vehicle license combined for vehicles not currently registered in the province for the purpose of driving to an inspection site and for registration;
I know there’s one more I’m forgetting. Anyway all of the above products are available in B.C. but not (and never would) in Ontario. Since a government insurer is not concerned with the profitability of a product, just that it meets a need that consumers have, ICBC can offer such a product. Also B.C.’s system results in fewer uninsured drivers on the road. In Ontario it’s estimated by the Insurance Bureau of Canada that 15% of vehicles on the road in Ontario are uninsured. In B.C. that number is less than 1%.
Now most of you are probably mainly concerned with the question: Would a government run system mean rates would be reduced in Ontario? The best answer I can give is: maybe. If Ontario were to adopt the exact system B.C. has then that means age, gender and marital status could not be used as a factor in determining someone’s premium, just driving record, the vehicle and the use of the vehicle can be used (private insurers care more about risk selection than access). This would mean the premiums for younger drivers would decrease, and it would be a huge decrease as I am all too aware how much younger drivers in the province pay. However for the average driver it’s a bit of a coin toss. According to the Insurance Bureau of Canada Ontario pays the highest average rates, followed by B.C., followed by Alberta. However I would say crime rates in the two provinces is a much greater factor for B.C.’s second place than the system of delivery. What I believe it could mean for Ontario is more stable, as opposed to cheaper, rates. In Ontario it was currently announced that auto insurers were increasing rates by an average of 14%. In B.C. the largest rate increase I saw announced was 3%. ICBC uses profits in good years to offset losses in bad years. Private insurers do not do this. In B.C. ICBC actually sent rebates to good drivers during a period where they had a string of good results. Private insurers do not do this. Also keep in mind insurers in Ontario add a % to their rates (called a loading) for profit. However the reason for my push towards a public/private system is focused on enhanced product selection that meets the needs of consumers and accessibility, not necessarily rate reform.
So what does everyone have to say? Does this sound like a battle worth fighting or is this a dud?

   

I am sorry, your post was well written, but I have lost what you are proposing.

   

Are you saying you think ther ICBC system is a good system and you want to implement that in Ontario?? Are you kidding???

   

I gotta say I'm very surprised these 2 points: "- Temporary Operating Permits – Insurance and vehicle license combined that lasts from 1-15 days (something I believe is desperately needed in Ontario);
- Storage policies – Physical damage coverage (and optional liability coverage arising from the ownership but not the use of the vehicle) for vehicles in short term or long term storage"
I dunno when it changed but Ontario DID have those at one time.
It's going to be very difficult to convince Ontarians that a publicly run insurance plan would indeed lower premiums. The last time the provincial government promised lower insurance rates by allowing no-fault, the promise didn't match up with insurance company greed. As a matter of fact, when my back was broken by a drunk driver in 1992, MY insuranced company told me they were going to raise my rates
I did like the Manitoba system at one point. I dunno if it's still the same but they had a similar plan to BC I think. Insurance rates were lower for everyone. Where they got you was on licence renewal. I had one friend with several speeding tickets. His insurance didn't go up by very much at all, but when he went to renew his licence, they really socked it to him

After saying all that, I think a public option would be a good idea. Even if it didn't mean a guaranteed lowering of insurance rates, having some price stability would be a huge benefit. Government enforced insurance is one thing, but then being forced to deal with the sharks to get insurance is a little unfair where our premiums are essentially based on profit margins. Plus the whole idea of no-fault is bullshit anyway. I've had all but one of my cars hit while they were parked.
Guess who's insurance had to pay for my car repairs.

   

I have bought several vehicles in BC and brought them back to Alberta.

With privatised insurance, I was able to get on the phone on a Saturday and have the vehicle included in my insurance policy in under 5 minutes.

And, although I was unable to get new registration over the phone, Alberta government allows me to take the plates off of my original vehicle to place on a vehicle that I am purchasing. Although they expect you to report the change as soon as possible, I beleive that it is ussually defined as up to 2 weeks...thats enough time to purchase a car in Nova Scotia and drive it back to my home province.

   

these capabilities are available by keeping your insurance active while storing the vehicle, so isn't your real criticism only one of price?

   

I am surprised that Ontario does not offer this. In Alberta, such a permit can be attained by the vehicle registry office, with the insurance coverage offered free of charge by my policy holder which is a private company out of Ontario.

   

once again, this can be attained by opening a permanent policy then canceling it 15 days later. I can assure you that there will likely be penalties involved, however, the coverage and service is available.

So one again, aren't you just complaining about the associated price?

   

My viewpoint is that of a consumer, not somebody who has worked with auto insurance. I have licensed vehicles in SK, AB, BC and Kentucky. If you are shooting for governemnt insurance, ICBC is not the best model out there.

Check out SGI. Far and away the best system out of the four that I have experience with. ICBC being the worst. AB and Kentucky are both totally private.

   

Ok,this is rude and confrontation, so please accept my sincere apologies up front, but Qball based on your concerns and what I know....I am having a hard time believing that you are experience at owning insurance policies, which means I am definitely questioning whether you have worked in the insurance industry. This leaves me with a dilema because I cant think of any possible reason why you would lie about this, and would like to believe you. in fact I think it is totally reasonable to beleive that you have worked in the insurance industry.

Once again, please accept my apalogies for being rude.

   

ICBC is awful and that's all there is to it.
You're never gonna convince anyone that I can buy insurance on a Saturday or they can pick up the phone and a girl comes with a laptop and sets you up on a Sunday afternoon at a car dealer. Or I can walk in with an inspection report on a Satuday afternoon in Prince George and license and insure a right hand drive Japanese import, borrow the screwdriver to put the plates on and drive it home in fifteen minutes. Five of which I spent getting my photo and DL renewed.
Since they went to using regular agents, I really haven't had any complaints. I didn't complain about the rebates. I didn't complain they shovelled money into police overtime for more roadblocks, nor when they tried all those safety improvement tests on bridges and roads at ICBC expense. Nor when they mailed me a claim to get my car cleaned because the cops told them I sheltered two bleeding accident victims in my van while we waited for the ambulance. I didn't even ask for that.
I did mention to everyone when one of the first turbaned RCMP managed to crack a fraud ring run by EIs that had cost ICBC millions. Because the claims weren't spread over six insurers it would not have been noticed as quickly.
I don't even buy the extra insurance elsewhere, because the only times I checked it wasn't worth $40-$50 to spread my insurance over two companies.
Best of all if they do piss everyone off, at least you get to VOTE OUT the bastards who let them screw people.
Yeah. Ontario would have benefitted from a single insurer like BC Sask and Manitoba

   

You can get a temporary permit in Ontario from the MTO, however you need to have proof of insurance in order to do this. No insurer in Ontario offers insurance for a term less than 3 months.
You can reduce coverage on a currently insured auto to Comprehensive coverage only, however if you do not have another vehicle insured on the same policy with road coverage or aren't intending to put road coverages back on within 3 months the insurer usually wants off risk. ICBC's storage policies can be from a minimum of 2 weeks and an annual policy and can be renewed indefinitely. No insurer in Ontario offers such a product.



That is why I wouldn't focus on the premium levels. Focusing on lowering premiums is foolish, as there are too many factors involved to have any one policy make that kind of effect without taking away coverage.

   

But, all of these missing coverages can be aquired by paying the premiums for a full coverage policy.

In my opinion, If you choose to make this a fight worth fighting, I believe that you will have to address the issue of premiums and why we need to operate on the assumption that they are too high.

Otherwise many people will miss the intent of your efforts.

   

No insurer in Ontario will cover a vehicle that is NOT registered in Ontario.



In Ontario you can switch plates to another vehicle but must inform the MTO within 6 days of the change, however I believe the other vehicle must be registered in Ontario. I need to confirm this therefore I will get back to you on this one after I go through the Highway Traffic Act.

   

In Ontario you cannot start a new insurance policy with Comprehensive coverage only. There must be another vehicle insured on the policy with road coverages.

   

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