Canada Kicks Ass
PC-ness is a More Dangerous Form of Totalitarianism

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Public_Domain @ Sat Jan 02, 2016 5:27 pm

POLITICAL CORRECTNESS IS A MORE DANGEROUS FORM OF TOTALITARIANISM

So this guy is a little hard to parse, so I've included text. Consider reading it before commenting, this isn't the usual circlejerk'd hated notion of political correctness, at least not entirely.


$1:
Of course I have nothing against the fact that your boss treats you in a nice way and so on. The problem is if this not only covers up the actual relationship of power, but makes it even more impenetrable. You know, if you have a boss who is up there, the old-fashioned boss shouting at you, exerting full brutal authority. In a way it’s much easier to rebel than to have a friendly boss who embraces you or how was the last night with your girlfriend, blah, blah, all that buddy stuff. Well then it almost appears impolite to protest. But I will give you an example, an old story that I often use to make it clear what do I mean by this. Imagine you or me, I’m a small boy. It’s Sunday afternoon. My father wants me to visit our grandmother. Let’s say my father is a traditional authority. What would he be doing? He would probably tell me something like, "I don’t care how you feel; it’s your duty to visit your grandmother. Be polite to her and so on." Nothing bad about this I claim because I can still rebel and so on. It’s a clear order.

But what would the so-called post-modern non-authoritarian father do? I know because I experienced it. He would have said something like this, "You know how much your grandmother loves you, but nonetheless I’m not forcing you to visit her. You should only visit her if you freely decide to do it." Now every child knows that beneath the appearance of free choice there is a much stronger pressure in this second message. Because basically your father is not only telling you, you must visit your grandmother, but you must love to visit it. You know he tells you how you must feel about it. It’s a much stronger order. And I think that this is for me almost a paradigm of modern permissive authority. This is why the formula of totalitarianism is not — I don’t care what you think; just do it. This is traditional authoritarianism. The totalitarian formula is I know better than you what you really want and I may appear to be forcing you to do it, but I’m really just making you do what without fully knowing what you want and so on. So in this sense yes, I am horrified by this. Also another aspect this new culture of experts where an injunction is presented just as a neutral statement.

For example, one example that I like and let’s not have a misunderstanding here. I don’t smoke and I’m for punishing tobacco companies and so on and so on. But I’m deeply suspicious about our phobia about smoking. I don’t buy it that this can be really justified just based on scientific knowledge how cigarettes hurt us and so on and so on. Because my first problem is that most of the people who oppose smoking then usually are for legalization of grass and so on and so on. But my basic problem is this one. Look, now they found a more or less solution — e-cigarettes, electronic cigarettes. And I discovered that now big American airline companies decided to prohibit them. And it’s interesting to read the reason why. The reason is not so much that it’s not yet sure are they safe or not. Basically they are. The idea is that if you smoke during the flight e-cigarette you publicly display your addiction and that is not a good pedagogical example for others and so on and so on.

I mean I find this a clear example of how a certain ethics, which is not just neutral ethics of health, but basically I think it’s ethics of don’t fall into it; don’t have a too passionate engagement. Remain at the proper distance; control yourself and so on. And now I will shock you to end. I think even racism can be ambiguous here. You know once I made an interview where I was asked how do we find reactionary racism. You know what was my answer. With progressive racism. Then, ah, ah, what do you mean? Of course I didn’t mean racism. What I meant is the following things. Of course racist jokes and so on can be extremely oppressive, humiliating, and so on.

But the solution I think is to create an atmosphere or to practice these jokes in such a way that they really function as that little bit of obscene contact which establishes true proximity between us. And I’m talking from my own past political experience. Ex-Yugoslavia. I remember when I was young when I met from other — when I met with other people from ex-Yugoslavia republics — Serbs, Croat, Bosnians and so on. We were all the time telling dirty jokes about each other. But not so much against the other. We were in a wonderful way competing who will be able to tell a nastier joke about ourselves. These were obscene racist jokes, but their effect was a wonderful sense of shared, obscene solidarity.

And I have another proof here. Do you know that when civil war exploded in Yugoslavia, early '90s and already before in the '80s, ethnic tensions. The first victims were these jokes; they immediately disappeared. Because people felt well that, for example, let’s say I visit another country. I hate this politically correct respect, oh, what is your food, what are your cultural forms. No, I tell them tell me a dirty joke about yourself and we will be friends and so on. It works. So you see this ambiguity — that’s my problem with political correctness. No it’s just a form of self-discipline, which doesn’t really allow you to overcome racism. It’s just oppressed controlled racism. And the same goes here. I will tell you a wonderful story, a simple one. It happened to me a year ago around the corner here in the bookstore. I was signing a book of mine. Two black guys came, African-Americans, I don’t like the term. My black friends also not, because for obvious reasons it can be even more racist.

But the point is and they asked me to sign a book and seeing them there I couldn’t resist the worst racist remark. When I was returning the books to them I told them you know, I don’t know which one is for whom, you know, you blacks like yellow guys, you look all the same. They embraced me and they told me you can call me nigga. You know when they tell you this it means we are really close. They instantly got this. Another stupid problem I had. At some talk there was a mute and deaf guy and he asked if a translator can be there. And I couldn’t resist it. In the middle of the talk in front of 200-300 people, I said what are you doing there guys. My idea was that if you watch the gestures of the translator it looked to me as if some obscene messages or what. The guy laughed so much we became friends. And some old stupid lady reported me for making fun of crippled people. It was so didn’t she see that’s how I became friends with the guy. But I’m — wait a minute. Now I’m not an idiot. I’m well aware this doesn’t mean we should just walk around and humiliate each other. It’s a great art how to do it. I’m just saying that’s my hypothesis. Without such a tiny exchange of friendly obscenities you don’t have a real contact with another.

It remains this cold respect and so on, you know. We need this. We need this to establish a real contact. This is what is lacking for me in political correctness. And then you end up in madness like it’s not a joke. I checked with my Australian friend. You know what happened in Perth, the west coast Australian city. It’s not a joke I repeated. The opera house there prohibited staging of Carmen. Opera Carmen, you know why? Because the first act takes place in front of a tobacco factory. I’m not kidding. I’m not kidding. I’m just saying that there is something so fake about political correctness. It’s — I know it’s better than open racism, of course. But I wonder if it works because, you know, I never, for example, bought all these permanent replacement, you know. Niggers are Negros. Negros are black. Okay, black are African-Americans. Maybe — it’s up to them to decide. The only thing I know is that when I was in Missoula, Montana, I got engaged in a very friendly conversation with some Native Americans. They hate the term and they gave me a wonderful reason. They told me Native American and you are a cultural American so what, we are part of nature. They told me we much preferred to be called Indians.

At least our name is a monument to white men’s stupidity who thought they are in India when they come here. And they had such a wonderful insight into how all this New Age bullshit, you know, we white people technologically exploit nature while natives relate to nature in a dialogic way like before they dig into earth, they ask the mountain for permission if they are mining blah, blah. They don’t mean that — research shows that Native Americans, Indians, killed much more buffalos and burned much more forests than white people. You know why this was the correct point. Like the message was the most racist thing is to patronizingly elevate us in that, you know, primitive, organic, living together with Mother Nature. No, their fundamental right is to be evil also. If we can be evil, why shouldn’t they be evil and so on. So again even with racism, one has to be very precise not to fight racism in a way which ultimately reproduces, if not directly racism itself, at least the conditions for racism.

P.S. Guy is a commie, sorry.

   



Thanos @ Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:17 pm

This guy owns. Need more like him on the university campuses to keep their dipshit Generation Pussy fellow travellers in line.

$1:
Without such a tiny exchange of friendly obscenities you don’t have a real contact with another


Johnny Knoxville should be gawd. :mrgreen:

Image

   



Public_Domain @ Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:34 pm

Sizek is an interesting fellow, one of the few "Youtube philosophers" I've ever watched more than two lectures from. Just, uh, wish I could understand his speeches easier.

As far as jokes, this is something I've said before but I didn't really connect to political correctness. That there's a difference between what Kramer said and what CK Luois said when they used "nigger" in their act.

Just follow the golden rule: Don't be a jerk. You'll be surprised how much people will let you say without question.

   



Thanos @ Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:44 pm

I won't use the N-word because it's got too much pure mean-ness in it. Whatever it is you guys think of me that's a line I will not cross. But others who used it (even like Kramer did when he blew up at those hecklers) shouldn't have their lives destroyed because of it. Not to channel that dumb "N****r Guy" South Park episode but c'mon, liberals. Lighten the fuck up already. Try harder to get through to those children on campus because no one should lose their job for saying that a politically incorrect Halloween costume isn't that big of a deal.

Whatever economic ideas that liberals have that might be good to implement are totally lost when liberals scare the other side too much with PC. This is part of why a jackass like Donald Trump is so popular, because he stands his ground and won't backtrack when he says something that pisses of the other side. If PC hadn't gotten so out of control over such tiny piddling issues like Halloween costumes or comedians using the N-word the likes of Trump wouldn't be able to exploit the anger and create a dangerous backlash.

   



Public_Domain @ Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:42 am

Well, devil's advocate here, how about for c***? a word so strong that while i've been able to say "the n word" multiple times before, i've been quietly warned before against using "the c word". But further, honestly why not savage and redskin? why the fuck not? chink, jap, dike, kike, you see the slippery hill that keeps this going? frankly i'm sure "meanness" is a large issue for "social justice warriors".

South Park compared political correctness to gentrification; making everything look nice but really just a mask forced on to make the appearance of modernity. Also, that episode you mentioned is pretty respected, and i enjoyed it. i like the part where they campaign to have the word "nigger" and "guy" never be within seven words of each other in a sentence, and it passes, because it's now a hurtful term that affects white people. south park is delicious, i'd be willing to call myself "south park pc".

Political correctness means so well. An end to racism, sexism, bigotry, bullying, potentially any hurtful inclination towards another. it's noble, obviously. kinda comes on a little strong, and has a real air of confusion over it. white people worried if they can laugh at this or that, especially in this or that company.

political correctness frankly doesn't make a terrible set of social guidelines, like "don't fuck in public". don't be a racist jerk. don't catcall women. these aren't bad things to encourage. don't be deliberately "mean".

but perhaps the quick decision to end offence altogether was naive. frankly i doubt peace can exist socially in any one place if peace doesn't exist on earth.

People shouldn't have their lives ruined for saying stupid shit. period. But we can only expect that treatment from the government, since the only free speech we have is with them. it's a very odd society really. corporate and private interests, as well as a few middle class hobbiests, control almost all forms of communication and forums. bars, halls, your place of employment, nothing but government has to give a single damn about your freedom of speech, so basically a public park, or city hall. still expect you to get vetted if you got a bunch of you though, and it's basically expected to be a warzone so the cops come pumped (well, anything too far left at least), skirmishes between the sides until the lefties are overwhelmingly crushed, every time. but the kkk does well, little police presence (maybe they're marching?), nice peaceful freedom of speech.

I think if we're going to continue as a society to accept bosses as the unaccountable heirarchs they are, we'll have to accept people losing their jobs over harsh forms of political incorrectness (or meanness). Sucks, but not really in the hands of social justice warriors if even the corporate psychologists can see the issues with keeping someone identifiable as a mean-spirited jerk from some outburst on your payroll.

but no one should be doxxed and public shaming is a surreal source of entertainment for many,especially us sofistikaded political types. i'd like it to be a rule here actually that the act be prohibited. no posting with real intentions the personal information, phone number, and home address of anyone. perhaps some exceptions but if it's a mean-spirited campaign of hate it should be discouraged. like the christian bake shop thing. nonsensical.

   



Jin-Gitaxias @ Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:06 am

Political correctness is NOT more dangerous than regular totalitarianism.

   



sandorski @ Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:43 pm

The vast majority of what gets called "PC" are just changes to improve Fairness and Politeness. However, especially recently, there have been "PC" actions that are clearly Totalitarian in nature.

   



DrCaleb @ Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:03 am

Jin-Gitaxias Jin-Gitaxias:
Political correctness is NOT more dangerous than regular totalitarianism.


Yes, it is. They both have the same goals, but PCness forces someone elses' opinion on you, and makes you enjoy participation in the process. Totalitarianism is no different, just less subtle.

   



BartSimpson @ Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:12 am

Jin-Gitaxias Jin-Gitaxias:
Political correctness is NOT more dangerous than regular totalitarianism.


Yes, it is. Totalitarianism at least has the honesty to come right out and oppress you in the open and not give a shit if you call it oppression.

PC gets offended if you call it oppression and then instead of mercifully killing you off like the dictator in North Korea would the PC crowd isn't satisfied until they drive you to commit suicide.

The fun thing about the PC brigade is how easily they're made into the weapon of their own destruction.

A 'friend' of mine had an overly PC office where PC codes were ruthlessly enforced and the result was several careers destroyed and one fatal cardiac arrest when an older employee was accused of something that was simply not possible. To wit: a black male who was the laziest employee in the world accused his lesbian supervisor of sexual harassment and she died during an extremely aggressive deposition.

The friend then started a campaign of anonymous emails that were CC'd to a large number of employees (large enough that the subject matter could not be covered up). The emails mentioned all sorts of improper behavior and conduct on the part of the PC enforcers and it turned out that some paper records conveniently appeared to bolster these claims.

For the past six months the primary PC enforcer has been on suspension and a couple more have been 'retired'.

Their own monster devoured them which is a fitting and just result.

   



DrCaleb @ Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:45 am

Thanos Thanos:
This guy owns. Need more like him on the university campuses to keep their dipshit Generation Pussy fellow travellers in line.


http://www.businessinsider.com/alan-der ... mor-2016-1

;)

   



DrCaleb @ Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:15 am

And another Editorial bit I ran across on this topic. A long read, but worth it!

Ujjal Dosanjh Ujjal Dosanjh :
Silencing White Men Endangers True Equality In Canada

Sadly, political correctness afflicts much of the world; in particular the Western world. At its inception in the counterculture of the sixties and beyond, it was a force for good. It moved us to examine our hatreds, prejudices, values and words.

It reminded the British and the French that their prosperity had been driven and depended partly on the plunder of their colonies. It brought home to the Americans that their reach in the world wasn't always benevolent; sometimes it was born out of their economic dominance of the world and exploitation of the resources and peoples of the world.

The U.S. blacks and the counterculture made the world pivot towards a fairer, more just and compassionate understanding of the inequality and unfairness in the world. The world began to understand gender equality, freedom for gays and lesbians to be themselves, the ugly reality of racism in the world and how North America had oppressed and marginalized the indigenous peoples and the rampant unfairness in international relations.

That extremely timely and necessary overhaul of our approach toward others made us change our language, expressions and how we addressed and viewed people who were different, and possibly weaker and poorer than us. Minorities became bolder. Equality became the buzzword underpinned by longing for social justice.

In Canada that hunger for social justice and equality manifested itself in Trudeau's just society, the egalitarian foundations of which found themselves enshrined in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The charter justly included a constitutional right of self-government for Canada's historically abused and exploited indigenous peoples.

Canada continues to make important strides toward more equality.

But there are storm clouds on the horizon that endanger the continuing pursuit of true equality.

What started as a legitimate change to bring about equality and transformation of how we viewed, treated and spoke about each other has now ossified into a rarely breached wall of silence, a silence reinforced by the onset of the West's indifference to its own good, bad or ugly -- but distinct -- societies, their values and norms. Call it white man's burden or guilt, a guilt for the sins of the past now manifesting itself in the white man's fear.

. . .

Amongst the Western leaders Angela Merkel has been an exception. She has welcomed close to a million refugees into Germany in 2016, more generous indeed than any other Western country. At the same time she told them to integrate into German society by learning the German language and values, calling multiculturalism a sham that creates parallel societies. We can debate her position but I would caution that the parallel societies she speaks of are quite discernible in many provinces in major urban centres in Canada, too.

But out of fear many of our leaders continue in their silent bliss.

This guilt cum fear was quite evident in Premier Kathleen Wynne's broad-brush swipe at those who had sought assurances of thorough security checks on the refugees to be let into Canada. Instead of arguing we must welcome refugees but after proper security checks, her words implied that these security concerns were a mask for racism.

Such remarks stultify and intimidate honest debate. Many voices are unnecessarily compelled into silence.

. . .

And we continue to sell Canadian citizenship to the highest bidders without debating whether doing so builds the kind of society we want.

On the other hand we continue to bring in temporary workers without a real stake in the country. They are abused and used to drive down wages for Canadians; no way to build a caring, inclusive and socially just society. But sadly we can't and don't debate the kind of society we are building out of fear for being called racists; anybody such as Andy Yan who dares to speak risks inviting our wrath.

Several years ago a report on the front page of the Vancouver Sun stated that close to a billion dollars of unaccounted and undeclared money was circulating in the construction industry in Surrey. Such massive fraud did not elicit even a peep from the usually loud public voices. It was well-known that almost all of the residential and a portion of the commercial construction was in the hands of Indo-Canadians. Complete silence reigned in the political sphere.

Fear had won again; building a better Canada lost out.

. . .

It seems some of us have so thoroughly shamed the white men into complete submission regarding our misplaced belief that Canada has no core identity or core values; so much so that even our Prime Minister won't defend what was so dear to his own father -- what he had fought so hard for.

My three children and six grand children born and raised in Canada know no other country as their own. They have a great stake in a healthy, humane, socially just and prosperous Canada.

If the white men of Canada can't overcome the fear of rebuke from the enforcers of fear, Canadians can't ever have an honest debate about the state of equality, race, culture and the place and space for religion and other languages in Canada.

These are important questions that need frank debates unless we want to live in our silos, isolated from others.

Fear, shame, silence or non-sequiturs do not build great nations.

They are built by frank, fearless and honest men and women!



http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/ujjal-dosa ... 11986.html

   



martin14 @ Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:28 am

DrCaleb DrCaleb:
If the white men of Canada can't overcome the fear of rebuke from the enforcers of fear,



Sorry, this is bullshit, and a complete cop out.

Losing your job for posting an opinion on Fascistbook or Twatter, being tipped off to the police, or other such crap need to be practises need to be criminalized, the people doxxing are the criminals.

Until then, most white men will be content to say very little, if anything at all.

But just watch what happens when they are needed.

   



JaredMilne @ Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:44 pm

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The fun thing about the PC brigade is how easily they're made into the weapon of their own destruction.

A 'friend' of mine had an overly PC office where PC codes were ruthlessly enforced and the result was several careers destroyed and one fatal cardiac arrest when an older employee was accused of something that was simply not possible. To wit: a black male who was the laziest employee in the world accused his lesbian supervisor of sexual harassment and she died during an extremely aggressive deposition.

The friend then started a campaign of anonymous emails that were CC'd to a large number of employees (large enough that the subject matter could not be covered up). The emails mentioned all sorts of improper behavior and conduct on the part of the PC enforcers and it turned out that some paper records conveniently appeared to bolster these claims.

For the past six months the primary PC enforcer has been on suspension and a couple more have been 'retired'.

Their own monster devoured them which is a fitting and just result.


Richard Gwyn-hardly a guy who'd be considered in the same vein as Bill O'Reilly or Ezra Levant-wrote about this back in 1994 in his book Nationalism Without Walls: The Unbearable Lightness Of Being Canadian. He wrote about the viciousness that emerged in some academic circles towards anyone who was perceived as not toeing the line of "correct" speech, and how they could even turn on people who were once seen as leaders in the movement for social justice.

What these people don't realize, as Gwyn alluded to at the time, was how they end up being their own worst enemies in turning potential supporters, or at least people who would remain indifferent, into enemies with the way they go out of their way to demonize people as bigoted, repressive, hateful, or whatever else. It's one thing to make your point with strength and force, but it's quite another to spew venom at anyone who dares to disagree with you.

   



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