Women in Islam!
hwacker @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:04 pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6288156.stm
http://publiuspundit.com/2007/04/have_y ... an_sto.php
http://www.middleastwomen.org/html/bull ... tin-35.htm
Yeah you guys are great. Give me a call when you’re in the 16th century.
novachick @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:10 pm
Ali786 Ali786:
Here is a beautiful article that I thought everyone should have a look at:
It contains most misconceptions that people have about Woman in Islam, so read before you reply.
$1:
Misconceptions about women in Islam (Submission)
An Editiorial by:
Dr. Fatimah Majidi, Nader Abbas Maudodi and Chris Abdul-Rahman
There are widespread erroneous misconception about the status of women in Islam (Submission.) This misconception was augmented by some newsmedia that made little effort to correct their understanding before broadcasting their views on this matter. Adding to this misconception are the regrettable practices in most so called "Islamic" countries or societies where myths, traditions and innovations have won over the true Islamic (Quranic) teachings and where women are traditionally subdued and oppressed. In this presentation we will try to clarify the position of the true Islam (Submission) on the status of women. We will list the misconceptions then comment on every issue accordingly.
(1)Muslim women have to wear the veil: This is a very common misconception, as Quran does not command the veil (Hijab). Wearing the veil is a tradition and is only supported by the man-made books of Hadiths and Sunna. These books do not represent the words of God in the Quran and on many occasions contradict them. Please see: Women Dress code in Islam.
(2) Islam encourages wife beating: On the contrary, Quran uses the best psychological approach to discourage this widespread abuse that is widespread in both Islamic and non-Islamic societies. Please see: Domestic violence, Wife abuse and beating, a Quranic Perspective.
(3) The woman inherits only half what a man can inherit: This is a common misconception even among the traditional Muslims themselves. Quran gives the parents total freedom to give their children as much as they see fit even if this means giving the females double what the males would get. Quran, however, commands that if a will is NOT left, then the estate is distributed in such a manner that the son gets double what the daughter gets. Generally, the son is responsible for a family, while the daughter is taken care of by a husband or her family. However, the Quran recommends in 2:180 that a will shall be left to conform with the specific circumstances of the deceased. For example, if the son is rich and the daughter is poor, one may leave a will giving the daughter everything, or twice as much as the son.
(4)The woman's testimony. is equal only to half of the man's testimony: This is a gross mis-representation. The woman testimony is equal to the man's testimony except in one case only, the financial transactions. This is according to 2:282;
[ 2:282] O you who believe, when you transact a loan for any period, you shall write it down. An impartial scribe shall do the writing. ........ Two men shall serve as witnesses; if not two men, then a man and two women whose testimony is acceptable to all. Thus, if one woman becomes biased, the other will remind her. It is the obligation of the witnesses to testify when called upon to do so. ......
Financial transactions are the ONLY situations where two women may substitute for one man as witness. This is to guard against the real possibility that one witness may marry the other witness, and thus cause her to be biased. It is a recognized fact that women are more emotionally vulnerable than men. If the woman as a witness was worth half that of a man, the verse would have stated so clearly. But obviously that is not the case. Women's testimony in all other matters are equal to that of a man or even supersedes his testimony as in the case of a wife testifying against her accusation of adultery, 24:6-10. See also, 65:2, 5:106 and 4:6
(5)Muslim woman cannot have jobs outside their homes: This also is not true. The social structure in the East where Islam (Submission) prevails encourages the woman to make her house her first priority but there is no prohibition whatsoever on women having to work and earn their living. The Muslim (submitter) woman has been given the privilege to earn money, the right to own property, to enter into legal contracts and to manage all of her assets in any way she pleases. She can hold a job or run her own business and no one has any claim on her earnings including her husband. Historically, Muhammed's first wife was a merchant who hired Muhammed to work for her. Muslim women went along with their husbands, fathers and brothers during battles to take care of the wounded and help in the back lines of the troops..
(6)Polygamy is strongly recommended: This is one of the most common misconceptions about Islam (Submission.) Quran strongly discourages polygamy. Polygamy was a way of life until the Quran was revealed 1400 years ago. It was advocated and practiced by the followers of the previous scriptures. Quran came to put the first scriptural limit on polygamy and discourages it as much as possible. Please see; Polygamy, the right way In all the scriptures, the men were allowed to have more than one wife and not vise verse, since the idea of polygamy then was to populate the earth. As we know a woman can be pregnant only once a year even if she is married to four men but one man can have four children in the process at the same time if he is married to four wives. Polygamy was never meant to be abused for sexual pleasure or prove superiority. The emotional make up of a man makes him acceptable to polygamy and the opposite is true for women who prefer a monogamous relationship.
(7)Men status is higher than that of the women : Again this is not true. Many writers who wrote about women's rights refer to the statement in 4:34 as a sign of the man is above the women in status but it is a misunderstood statement. In 4:34, the expression "..al-rijalu qawwdmuna 'ala al-nisa'i.... " means "The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners." This expression simply means that God is appointing the husband as "captain of the ship." Marriage is like a ship, and the captain runs it after due consultation with his officers. It does not assign inequality but rather assigns duties to avoid conflicts and disputes.
Quran provides every possible proof that women and men are equal in th sight of God and treats both genders in the same way and rewards them in the same way. Please see; Are women and men equal in Islam? , Women in the religion of Submission (Islam) and Blame it on Eve. !.
(8) Muslim Women cannot have education: This is not true. Qur'an encourages the pursuit of knowledge by all Muslims (Submitters) regardless of their sex. It repeatedly commands all believers to read, to recite, to think, to contemplate, as well as to learn from the signs of God surrounding us in nature. In fact, the very first revelation to Prophet Muhammad was "READ" and the second revelation talked about God who teaches the people by the "PEN". In either case no gender is advocated, the order is for everyone. Islam (Submission) does not put any limit on the kind or field of education a woman may choose. Islamic history still has the mark of few women scholars
(9)Women cannot share in the political life in their communities: This also is not true. Women in Islam (Submission) have the right to vote, express their views on any public matter, run for an office and even be the head of a state.See 60:12, 27:22-44 Please see; Women and Politics in Islam and The record set straight: Women in Islam have rights.
(10)Women cannot pray, fast, do Hajj or Ummrah during menstruation: This misconception is even common among women who follow the traditional Islam that derives many of its laws from man-made books. This is totally against the teachings of the Quran. Please see; Religious Duties and Menstruation . A question/ answer report.
(11)Women are stoned to death for Adultery : This is totally false as there is NO death penalty for adultery in Islam (Submission). The penalty of adultery is equal for both men and women, and involves symbolic lashing. Social pressure, i.e., public witnessing of the penalty, is the basic punishment see 24:1-2
(12)Muslim women cannot marry Jewish or Christian men: This common misconception is advocated and promoted by men but have no basis in the Quran. Quran gives both men and women the right to marry from the people of the book, i.e. Muslims (Submitters), Jews or Christians. God also reminds us that the marriage to a believer is much better than the marriage to an idolworshiper. See 5:5 and 2:221. See also; Marriage in the Quran, and A Marriage question and answer from the Quran.
(13)Muslim women do not have the right to divorce their husbands: This is not true. Divorce laws in the Quran apply to both men and women equally. Women have the right to divorce their husbands as long as they follow the laws set in the Quran. Please see; Divorce according to the Quran.
(14)Compensation for the murder of a woman is half the going rate for men: This is totally false as both men and women are equally treated and compensated according to the Quran. Such laws are found in the fabricated books of Hadiths and Sunna and they are not the laws of God in the Quran.See 2:178.
(15)For a woman to prove rape, four adult males of "impeccable" character must witness the incident: This a gross misunderstanding of this law. Like any civil law in the civilized world, Quran urges a proof beyond doubt for such a horrendous crime. Quran accepts a proof of a crime if the proof is beyond doubt, e.g. see 12:75. Therefore although the verses of adultery which is used in cases of rape are applied, a proof beyond doubt, e.g. DNA of the offender should be an acceptable proof instead of four witnesses in these cases. Insisting on four witnesses when the other proof is beyond doubt is NOT Quranic.
(16)The legal age for girls to marry tends to be very young: This is not an Islamic law but local tribal or cultural tradition. In reality Islam (Submission) expects marriage to be established on mutual understanding, acceptance and approval. Such requirements cannot be achieved in the very young girls (or boys). Maturity, mentally, emotionally and physically is the rule in Islam (Submission) before marriage. The story of prophet Muhammed marrying his wife Aysha when she was only six is a gross lie that can be found in the Hadiths books that are full of many other similar lies that do not represent Islam (Submission.) Please see; Prophet Muhammed's marriage to Aysha.
(17)Female circumcision, also called female genital mutilation: Quran does not mention nor advocates female circumcision and all the rituals that go with it. This is NOT an Islamic practice by all means. This practice predates Muhammad and is also common among some Christian communities.
(18) Muslim women are not allowed to drive: Again this is not Islamic law but rather a local tradition in some of these so called "Islamic" countries. Quran has no restriction on the women moving freely in the society, whether this includes riding a horse, driving a car or flying an aeroplane. Local laws that require the women to be accompanied by a male relative whenever they travel are traditional laws that have NO basis in the Quran.
(19) Typically, fathers win custody of boys over the age of six and girls after the onset of puberty: This is only a local law that is not supported by the Quran. Cases of custody are to be decided on a case by case basis with the interest of the children being the priority in any judgment. God puts a great emphasis on protecting the right of the weak and unprotected kids, please see; 6:151-152, 17:31, 17:34, 2:233, 6:140, 60:12, 4:127, 4:2, 4:10, 33:5, 93:9, 2:215, .....
(20) Women must be segregated form men in public, work and places of worship: This is a common misconception even among some Muslims but has NO basis in the Quran. On the contrary, God meant for the women and men to be together with NO segregation whether in public, work or worship places. Hajj (pilgrimage) is a vivid example of how women and men are not segregated and worship in the same place, then go ahead with their lives and practice commerce after Hajj with no limits..
(21) "honor killings" of women: Murders by husbands or male relatives of women suspected of disobedience, usually a sexual indiscretion or marriage against the family's wishes. These are tribal laws, not Islamic laws. There is no such thing as HONOR killing in Islam (Submission.) All killings are condemned in the Quran. in the strongest language possible. Please see; 5:32, 6:151 and 17:33. Punishment for these killers will follow the same general rules in the Quran and would not get a lighter sentence for his claims even if they were true. After all, these killers violated the sacred laws of God in the Quran. The punishment in the Quran is based always on an attempt to save lives not to waste lives. Please see Capital Punishment in Islam.
(22) "Morality Police" keeps control on the behaviour of women: Islam (Submission) does not assign police for morality as such character is not created by force but rather by understanding of God's laws in the Quran. The practice of the so called "Morality Police" is a total innovation of some of these so called "Islamic" countries but has nothing to do with Islam (Submission.)
(23) Women cannot travel freely except in the company of a male relative, "mahram": This is a man made fabrication that has no support in the Quran. According to the Quran, women have no limitations on their moves, travels or activities. Men who hire themsleves guards on the women's moves do this out of their own wishes not beause of any religious law in the Quran.
An Editiorial by:
Dr. Fatimah Majidi, Nader Abbas Maudodi and Chris Abdul-Rahman
There are widespread erroneous misconception about the status of women in Islam (Submission.) This misconception was augmented by some newsmedia that made little effort to correct their understanding before broadcasting their views on this matter. Adding to this misconception are the regrettable practices in most so called "Islamic" countries or societies where myths, traditions and innovations have won over the true Islamic (Quranic) teachings and where women are traditionally subdued and oppressed. In this presentation we will try to clarify the position of the true Islam (Submission) on the status of women. We will list the misconceptions then comment on every issue accordingly.
(1)Muslim women have to wear the veil: This is a very common misconception, as Quran does not command the veil (Hijab). Wearing the veil is a tradition and is only supported by the man-made books of Hadiths and Sunna. These books do not represent the words of God in the Quran and on many occasions contradict them. Please see: Women Dress code in Islam.
(2) Islam encourages wife beating: On the contrary, Quran uses the best psychological approach to discourage this widespread abuse that is widespread in both Islamic and non-Islamic societies. Please see: Domestic violence, Wife abuse and beating, a Quranic Perspective.
(3) The woman inherits only half what a man can inherit: This is a common misconception even among the traditional Muslims themselves. Quran gives the parents total freedom to give their children as much as they see fit even if this means giving the females double what the males would get. Quran, however, commands that if a will is NOT left, then the estate is distributed in such a manner that the son gets double what the daughter gets. Generally, the son is responsible for a family, while the daughter is taken care of by a husband or her family. However, the Quran recommends in 2:180 that a will shall be left to conform with the specific circumstances of the deceased. For example, if the son is rich and the daughter is poor, one may leave a will giving the daughter everything, or twice as much as the son.
(4)The woman's testimony. is equal only to half of the man's testimony: This is a gross mis-representation. The woman testimony is equal to the man's testimony except in one case only, the financial transactions. This is according to 2:282;
[ 2:282] O you who believe, when you transact a loan for any period, you shall write it down. An impartial scribe shall do the writing. ........ Two men shall serve as witnesses; if not two men, then a man and two women whose testimony is acceptable to all. Thus, if one woman becomes biased, the other will remind her. It is the obligation of the witnesses to testify when called upon to do so. ......
Financial transactions are the ONLY situations where two women may substitute for one man as witness. This is to guard against the real possibility that one witness may marry the other witness, and thus cause her to be biased. It is a recognized fact that women are more emotionally vulnerable than men. If the woman as a witness was worth half that of a man, the verse would have stated so clearly. But obviously that is not the case. Women's testimony in all other matters are equal to that of a man or even supersedes his testimony as in the case of a wife testifying against her accusation of adultery, 24:6-10. See also, 65:2, 5:106 and 4:6
(5)Muslim woman cannot have jobs outside their homes: This also is not true. The social structure in the East where Islam (Submission) prevails encourages the woman to make her house her first priority but there is no prohibition whatsoever on women having to work and earn their living. The Muslim (submitter) woman has been given the privilege to earn money, the right to own property, to enter into legal contracts and to manage all of her assets in any way she pleases. She can hold a job or run her own business and no one has any claim on her earnings including her husband. Historically, Muhammed's first wife was a merchant who hired Muhammed to work for her. Muslim women went along with their husbands, fathers and brothers during battles to take care of the wounded and help in the back lines of the troops..
(6)Polygamy is strongly recommended: This is one of the most common misconceptions about Islam (Submission.) Quran strongly discourages polygamy. Polygamy was a way of life until the Quran was revealed 1400 years ago. It was advocated and practiced by the followers of the previous scriptures. Quran came to put the first scriptural limit on polygamy and discourages it as much as possible. Please see; Polygamy, the right way In all the scriptures, the men were allowed to have more than one wife and not vise verse, since the idea of polygamy then was to populate the earth. As we know a woman can be pregnant only once a year even if she is married to four men but one man can have four children in the process at the same time if he is married to four wives. Polygamy was never meant to be abused for sexual pleasure or prove superiority. The emotional make up of a man makes him acceptable to polygamy and the opposite is true for women who prefer a monogamous relationship.
(7)Men status is higher than that of the women : Again this is not true. Many writers who wrote about women's rights refer to the statement in 4:34 as a sign of the man is above the women in status but it is a misunderstood statement. In 4:34, the expression "..al-rijalu qawwdmuna 'ala al-nisa'i.... " means "The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners." This expression simply means that God is appointing the husband as "captain of the ship." Marriage is like a ship, and the captain runs it after due consultation with his officers. It does not assign inequality but rather assigns duties to avoid conflicts and disputes.
Quran provides every possible proof that women and men are equal in th sight of God and treats both genders in the same way and rewards them in the same way. Please see; Are women and men equal in Islam? , Women in the religion of Submission (Islam) and Blame it on Eve. !.
(8) Muslim Women cannot have education: This is not true. Qur'an encourages the pursuit of knowledge by all Muslims (Submitters) regardless of their sex. It repeatedly commands all believers to read, to recite, to think, to contemplate, as well as to learn from the signs of God surrounding us in nature. In fact, the very first revelation to Prophet Muhammad was "READ" and the second revelation talked about God who teaches the people by the "PEN". In either case no gender is advocated, the order is for everyone. Islam (Submission) does not put any limit on the kind or field of education a woman may choose. Islamic history still has the mark of few women scholars
(9)Women cannot share in the political life in their communities: This also is not true. Women in Islam (Submission) have the right to vote, express their views on any public matter, run for an office and even be the head of a state.See 60:12, 27:22-44 Please see; Women and Politics in Islam and The record set straight: Women in Islam have rights.
(10)Women cannot pray, fast, do Hajj or Ummrah during menstruation: This misconception is even common among women who follow the traditional Islam that derives many of its laws from man-made books. This is totally against the teachings of the Quran. Please see; Religious Duties and Menstruation . A question/ answer report.
(11)Women are stoned to death for Adultery : This is totally false as there is NO death penalty for adultery in Islam (Submission). The penalty of adultery is equal for both men and women, and involves symbolic lashing. Social pressure, i.e., public witnessing of the penalty, is the basic punishment see 24:1-2
(12)Muslim women cannot marry Jewish or Christian men: This common misconception is advocated and promoted by men but have no basis in the Quran. Quran gives both men and women the right to marry from the people of the book, i.e. Muslims (Submitters), Jews or Christians. God also reminds us that the marriage to a believer is much better than the marriage to an idolworshiper. See 5:5 and 2:221. See also; Marriage in the Quran, and A Marriage question and answer from the Quran.
(13)Muslim women do not have the right to divorce their husbands: This is not true. Divorce laws in the Quran apply to both men and women equally. Women have the right to divorce their husbands as long as they follow the laws set in the Quran. Please see; Divorce according to the Quran.
(14)Compensation for the murder of a woman is half the going rate for men: This is totally false as both men and women are equally treated and compensated according to the Quran. Such laws are found in the fabricated books of Hadiths and Sunna and they are not the laws of God in the Quran.See 2:178.
(15)For a woman to prove rape, four adult males of "impeccable" character must witness the incident: This a gross misunderstanding of this law. Like any civil law in the civilized world, Quran urges a proof beyond doubt for such a horrendous crime. Quran accepts a proof of a crime if the proof is beyond doubt, e.g. see 12:75. Therefore although the verses of adultery which is used in cases of rape are applied, a proof beyond doubt, e.g. DNA of the offender should be an acceptable proof instead of four witnesses in these cases. Insisting on four witnesses when the other proof is beyond doubt is NOT Quranic.
(16)The legal age for girls to marry tends to be very young: This is not an Islamic law but local tribal or cultural tradition. In reality Islam (Submission) expects marriage to be established on mutual understanding, acceptance and approval. Such requirements cannot be achieved in the very young girls (or boys). Maturity, mentally, emotionally and physically is the rule in Islam (Submission) before marriage. The story of prophet Muhammed marrying his wife Aysha when she was only six is a gross lie that can be found in the Hadiths books that are full of many other similar lies that do not represent Islam (Submission.) Please see; Prophet Muhammed's marriage to Aysha.
(17)Female circumcision, also called female genital mutilation: Quran does not mention nor advocates female circumcision and all the rituals that go with it. This is NOT an Islamic practice by all means. This practice predates Muhammad and is also common among some Christian communities.
(18) Muslim women are not allowed to drive: Again this is not Islamic law but rather a local tradition in some of these so called "Islamic" countries. Quran has no restriction on the women moving freely in the society, whether this includes riding a horse, driving a car or flying an aeroplane. Local laws that require the women to be accompanied by a male relative whenever they travel are traditional laws that have NO basis in the Quran.
(19) Typically, fathers win custody of boys over the age of six and girls after the onset of puberty: This is only a local law that is not supported by the Quran. Cases of custody are to be decided on a case by case basis with the interest of the children being the priority in any judgment. God puts a great emphasis on protecting the right of the weak and unprotected kids, please see; 6:151-152, 17:31, 17:34, 2:233, 6:140, 60:12, 4:127, 4:2, 4:10, 33:5, 93:9, 2:215, .....
(20) Women must be segregated form men in public, work and places of worship: This is a common misconception even among some Muslims but has NO basis in the Quran. On the contrary, God meant for the women and men to be together with NO segregation whether in public, work or worship places. Hajj (pilgrimage) is a vivid example of how women and men are not segregated and worship in the same place, then go ahead with their lives and practice commerce after Hajj with no limits..
(21) "honor killings" of women: Murders by husbands or male relatives of women suspected of disobedience, usually a sexual indiscretion or marriage against the family's wishes. These are tribal laws, not Islamic laws. There is no such thing as HONOR killing in Islam (Submission.) All killings are condemned in the Quran. in the strongest language possible. Please see; 5:32, 6:151 and 17:33. Punishment for these killers will follow the same general rules in the Quran and would not get a lighter sentence for his claims even if they were true. After all, these killers violated the sacred laws of God in the Quran. The punishment in the Quran is based always on an attempt to save lives not to waste lives. Please see Capital Punishment in Islam.
(22) "Morality Police" keeps control on the behaviour of women: Islam (Submission) does not assign police for morality as such character is not created by force but rather by understanding of God's laws in the Quran. The practice of the so called "Morality Police" is a total innovation of some of these so called "Islamic" countries but has nothing to do with Islam (Submission.)
(23) Women cannot travel freely except in the company of a male relative, "mahram": This is a man made fabrication that has no support in the Quran. According to the Quran, women have no limitations on their moves, travels or activities. Men who hire themsleves guards on the women's moves do this out of their own wishes not beause of any religious law in the Quran.
It contains most misconceptions that people have about Woman in Islam, so read before you reply.
OK fine I'll ask in this thread then. Where did you get this editorial, what are the credentials of the authors?
hwacker @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:12 pm
Ali786 Ali786:
hwacker hwacker:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6288156.stm
http://publiuspundit.com/2007/04/have_y ... an_sto.php
http://www.middleastwomen.org/html/bull ... tin-35.htm
Yeah you guys are great. Give me a call when you’re in the 16th century.
http://publiuspundit.com/2007/04/have_y ... an_sto.php
http://www.middleastwomen.org/html/bull ... tin-35.htm
Yeah you guys are great. Give me a call when you’re in the 16th century.
Well according to the Islamic Calender, we are currently living in 1428 AH so I sure will give you a call by the 16th century but I hardly doubt we will both be alive.
1428
shit you guys wish.
hwacker @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:15 pm
Ali786 Ali786:
hwacker hwacker:
Ali786 Ali786:
hwacker hwacker:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6288156.stm
http://publiuspundit.com/2007/04/have_y ... an_sto.php
http://www.middleastwomen.org/html/bull ... tin-35.htm
Yeah you guys are great. Give me a call when you’re in the 16th century.
http://publiuspundit.com/2007/04/have_y ... an_sto.php
http://www.middleastwomen.org/html/bull ... tin-35.htm
Yeah you guys are great. Give me a call when you’re in the 16th century.
Well according to the Islamic Calender, we are currently living in 1428 AH so I sure will give you a call by the 16th century but I hardly doubt we will both be alive.
1428
shit you guys wish.No seriously, if you didn't know, there are other calenders that are much more accurate then the Roman Calender.
Lucky for you we use ours all over the world.
Scrappy @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:41 pm
Well a lovely Muslim women in NS almost died and all she asked was to go home to Saudi Arabia for the funeral of her mother. Well her most honorable husband lied and told her he booked a flight. As she was getting ready to leave for the airport her threw her down a flight of stairs dragged her back up and threw her down again. The 18 year old son was holding her dying and bleeding body for 45 minutes before this most honourable Muslim male let him call 911. The neighbours told the police in the two years she lived in that area she was never seen. Yes prisoner in her own home, never to leave the confines for two years until he beat her half to death. His reason: She looked at another man. How many Muslim Women in Canada live like this because of the Lily of the world? As for the fluff piece above I'll leave the most tolerant of posters like Lily to pander to the newbie who is trolling as a Muslim. Forum members Lily demand's proper and in context references, when she can't type a paragraph. Jesus take the wheel, please afford her all the respect she's due.
Careful, she's a report to mod most tolerant and wonderous poster. When she's not haunting the forum with nonsensical tripe and useless post.
To quote Meatloaf, the band not the food, I'm tired of words and I'm to hoarse to shout. The Koran speaks for it'self. Can I debunk the above for christ sakes using the Muslim Satanic Verses in a few minutes but I'll leave the newbie (from babble, slather and lather or would that be rattitude) to amuse you the most tolerant and dumb on this forum. Rock on useful idiots.
Blue_Nose @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:53 pm
Short on substance and long on bullshit as usual, Scrappy. Put your money where your mouth is and cite the "Muslim Satanic Verses" from the Koran that refute the article.
hwacker @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:39 pm
When muslims like ali keep denying the fact their religion (cult) is used for promoting hatred and lies there is no sense debating with brainwashed zombies.
This religion is so backwards it’s like a time machine.
As for the article, well it's all fine in print too bad it's not practiced anywhere, go to saudi arabia or pakistan and see for yourself.
WBenson @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:46 pm
hwacker hwacker:
When muslims like ali keep denying the fact their religion (cult) is used for promoting hatred and lies there is no sense debating with brainwashed zombies.
This religion is so backwards it’s like a time machine.
As for the article, well it's all fine in print too bad it's not practiced anywhere, go to saudi arabia or pakistan and see for yourself.
This religion is so backwards it’s like a time machine.
As for the article, well it's all fine in print too bad it's not practiced anywhere, go to saudi arabia or pakistan and see for yourself.
How it is practiced is a cultural issue, not a religious issue. Most predominantly muslim countries would have the same issues whether they were Christian, Muslim, or even *gasp* Atheist.
BartSimpson @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:14 am
On beating women...
Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."
On the intellectual capabilities of women...
Tabari I:280 "Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."
On polygamy...
Qur'an 4:3 "If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with orphans, marry women of your choice who seem good to you, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to do justice (to so many), then only one, or (a slave) that you possess, that will be more suitable. And give the women their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, eat it with enjoyment, take it with right good cheer and absorb it (in your wealth)."
On equality in the estate...
Qur'an 4:11 "Allah directs you in regard of your Children's (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females.... These are settled portions ordained by Allah."
On the salvation of women...
Bukhari:V1B22N28 "The Prophet said: ‘I was shown the Hell Fire and the majority of its dwellers were women who are disbelievers or ungrateful.' When asked what they were ungrateful for, the Prophet answered, ‘All the favors done for them by their husbands.'"
Ishaq:185 "In hell I saw women hanging by their breasts. They had fathered bastards."
Muslim:B1N142 "‘O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.' A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah's Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: ‘You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. You lack common sense, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.' Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, ‘Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof.'"
On the trustworthiness of women....
Ishaq:584 "Tell the men with you who have wives: never trust a woman."
Ishaq:469 "The Apostle said, ‘Every wailing woman lies except those who wept for Sa'd.'"
Ishaq:496 "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, ‘Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
Bukhari:V4B55N547 "The Prophet said, ‘But for the Israelis, meat would not decay, and if it were not for Eve, wives would never betray their husbands.'"
Bukhari:V3B48N826 "The Prophet said, ‘Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?' The women said, ‘Yes.' He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind.'"
Qur'an 24:6 "And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth." *So a man may swear four times that he is telling the truth and his word must supercede the word of the woman who speaks contrary to him.
Why women must wear veils and why this is not optional...
Qur'an 33:59 "Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better."
Bukhari:V4B52N143
V5B59N523 "When we reached Khaybar, Muhammad said that Allah had enabled him to conquer them. It was then that the beauty of Safiyah was described to him. Her husband had been killed, so Allah's Apostle selected her for himself. He took her along with him till we reached a place called Sad where her menses were over and he took her for his wife, consummating his marriage to her, and forcing her to wear the veil.'"
Qur'an 24:31 "Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty except what (must) appear; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display them except to their husbands..."
What to do with a nasty girl...
Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."
Treating women like chattel...
Bukhari:V5B59N524 "The Muslims said among themselves, ‘Will Safiyah be one of the Prophet's wives or just a lady captive and one of his possessions?'"
Ishaq:593 "From the captives of Hunayn, Allah's Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another."
The license to rape...
Qur'an 24:34 "Force not your slave-girls to whoredom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of this life. [And here's the freedom-to-pimp card:] But if anyone forces them, then after such compulsion, Allah is oft-forgiving."
Tabari VIII:62
Ishaq:496 "Ali [Muhammad's adopted son, son-in-law, and future Caliph] said, ‘Prophet, women are plentiful. You can get a replacement, easily changing one for another.'"
This would be what Scrappy is talking about.
Any other questions, Lily?