Why some still think climate change isn’t real
DrCaleb @ Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:22 am
FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Paywall.
Try this, fewer Economists, but similar ideas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-carbon_economy
FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
People will see what they want to see, hence why we have environmentalists acting like a doomsday cult because the UN has predicted an apocalyptic event for 2030.
Exactly! You are seeing what you want to see. This problem has been on the radar for more than 100 years.
https://www.livescience.com/63334-coal- ... y-ago.html
But as Big Oil has taken the playcard from Big Tobacco and ramped up the denial and FUD, the people who see the headlight of the oncoming train have had to get louder and louder to get people's attention.
FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
Additionally, oil consumption has only increased worldwide. It has already reached 100 million barrels per day (bpd), and that figure could rise to 125 million bpd by mid-century.
Which is why something needs to be done, now. Burning that much fuel will have no good outcomes.
FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
Economies like China may be leading the way in development of renewables, but it appears that it's to supplement fossil fuels rather than replace them. Perhaps we will have to give nuclear another look and hopefully ITER can make nuclear fusion viable, which would be a game-changer.
ITER is a long way away. Bill Gates has been funding a company called 'TerraPower' to build a new kind of nuclear reactor that could be build much sooner.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_wave_reactor
FieryVulpine @ Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:42 am
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Which is why something needs to be done, now. Burning that much fuel will have no good outcomes.
The problem is that large polluters like China and India care less about CO2 emissions than the West and will negate any progress made on that front. I will need to find the source, but I saw a tweet that showed a rail line from Inner Mongolia to Xinjiang that will carry 220 million tonnes of coal annually.
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
ITER is a long way away. Bill Gates has been funding a company called 'TerraPower' to build a new kind of nuclear reactor that could be build much sooner.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_wave_reactor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_wave_reactor
Neat!
DrCaleb @ Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:49 am
FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Which is why something needs to be done, now. Burning that much fuel will have no good outcomes.
The problem is that large polluters like China and India care less about CO2 emissions than the West and will negate any progress made on that front. I will need to find the source, but I saw a tweet that showed a rail line from Inner Mongolia to Xinjiang that will carry 220 million tonnes of coal annually.
Coal can have many uses, besides power. China is also commissioning nuclear reactors at an unprecedented rate.
And, if you consider emissions since the Industrial revolution, China lags far far behind the West.
FieryVulpine @ Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:04 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Coal can have many uses, besides power. China is also commissioning nuclear reactors at an unprecedented rate.
And, if you consider emissions since the Industrial revolution, China lags far far behind the West.
And, if you consider emissions since the Industrial revolution, China lags far far behind the West.
Point taken, but I will have to rephrase my position. I believe that a zero-emission civilization is possible (given the scarcity of fossil fuel will likely force it anyway), but I'm skeptical that the transition will occur in the desired timeframe, especially on a global scale. Too much political and economic inertia to make it happen by 2030. I reckon that it will likely take twice that long--2040 at the earliest.
N_Fiddledog @ Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:11 pm
FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
The problem is that large polluters like China and India care less about CO2 emissions than the West and will negate any progress made on that front.
Doc can say what he wants about Chinese promises of more nuclear plants or other possible nitpicks around the edges, currently what you say is absolutely correct.
N_Fiddledog @ Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:18 pm
FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
Point taken, but I will have to rephrase my position. I believe that a zero-emission civilization is possible (given the scarcity of fossil fuel will likely force it anyway), but I'm skeptical that the transition will occur in the desired timeframe, especially on a global scale. Too much political and economic inertia to make it happen by 2030. I reckon that it will likely take twice that long--2040 at the earliest.
One can hope. I'm not sure nuclear is the answer though and I know it's not wind or solar so some sort of technological advancement or advancements is required.
My personal opinion is the free market is the best bet to provide that or those. For now, if one is actually concerned about CO2 what seems to be most effective at bringing carbon dioxide levels down on a national scale is natural gas.
Thanos @ Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:22 pm
Nuclear is great for the power grid. Wind and solar are valuable additions to it as well. Both are pointless for personal or commercial transportation, at least as long as electric cars remain prohibitively expensive for the majority of the population
Natural gas is as hated by the psychos as much as they hate coal, oil, or nuclear. There's no point in placing your bets on it. It will last longer than coal for heating and power generation purposes but it's still on the list of things to be abolished by the trendy & passionate folks.
DrCaleb @ Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:43 pm
FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Coal can have many uses, besides power. China is also commissioning nuclear reactors at an unprecedented rate.
And, if you consider emissions since the Industrial revolution, China lags far far behind the West.
And, if you consider emissions since the Industrial revolution, China lags far far behind the West.
Point taken, but I will have to rephrase my position. I believe that a zero-emission civilization is possible (given the scarcity of fossil fuel will likely force it anyway), but I'm skeptical that the transition will occur in the desired timeframe, especially on a global scale. Too much political and economic inertia to make it happen by 2030. I reckon that it will likely take twice that long--2040 at the earliest.
I am hopeful that we can transition in time. Having the young generation take a hard stand is why I'm optimistic. And they see through the denier bullshit.
Same thing with my fathers' generation for WWII. They saw a problem, they fixed it, because it needed fixing.
N_Fiddledog @ Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:51 pm
Thanos Thanos:
Natural gas is as hated by the psychos as much as they hate coal, oil, or nuclear.
True, but if the name-callers of "denier" actually wanted CO2 levels to go down in the East (China and surrounding) they would support the free market's effort to see the east gets Natural Gas from the west. They would lift government restrictions.
FieryVulpine @ Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:04 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Having the young generation take a hard stand is why I'm optimistic. And they see through the denier bullshit.
If only I had your optimism. The next generation come off as clueless rabble-rousers who believe a solution will magically appear because they demand one. One of the biggest hurdles for EVs are batteries; do they know what materials go into the manufacture of these batteries, or how to build one that store a bigger charge? Chances are that they will simply give you a slack-jawed stare. That is not to say all is lost. A dutch teen and a team of seventy invented a device that cleans up plastic from our oceans. Yet he receives only a fraction of the attention Greta Thunberg does because he doesn't tell us that we're all going to die ad infinitum.
DrCaleb @ Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:17 pm
FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Having the young generation take a hard stand is why I'm optimistic. And they see through the denier bullshit.
If only I had your optimism.
It's my superpower.
FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
The next generation come off as clueless rabble-rousers who believe a solution will magically appear because they demand one.
You'd be surprised. Perhaps that is the way the media portrays them, but the ones I know are genuinely in touch with reality, and are prepared to change the world.
FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
One of the biggest hurdles for EVs are batteries; do they know what materials go into the manufacture of these batteries, or how to build one that store a bigger charge? Chances are that they will simply give you a slack-jawed stare. That is not to say all is lost. A dutch teen and a team of seventy invented a device that cleans up plastic from our oceans. Yet he receives only a fraction of the attention Greta Thunberg does because he doesn't tell us that we're all going to die ad infinitum.
To be fair, a lot of sea creatures are already dying because of our shortsightedness.
And Lithium Oxide is a pretty nasty substance, but there are lots of people making it renewable, and even changing the metal to something with a higher power density to compete with gasoline.
https://phys.org/news/2019-03-highest-e ... eries.html
FieryVulpine @ Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:34 pm
There was something I just remembered after you mentioned geothermal heating, Doc. Interestingly, I did a project back in college that involved research on the topic. Had I the money, I would prefer that to heat my home (don't remember if it's suitable for heating water) and use xeriscaping so that I wouldn't have to waste water on the lawn. But alas... 
I also wish that cross-country high-speed was feasible. There's something I find romantic about it. 
DrCaleb @ Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:03 am
FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:
There was something I just remembered after you mentioned geothermal heating, Doc. Interestingly, I did a project back in college that involved research on the topic. Had I the money, I would prefer that to heat my home (don't remember if it's suitable for heating water) and use xeriscaping so that I wouldn't have to waste water on the lawn. But alas...
I also wish that cross-country high-speed was feasible. There's something I find romantic about it.
I also wish that cross-country high-speed was feasible. There's something I find romantic about it.
I just renovated my home before listing it for sale, or I would have put in geothermal heating/cooling. And alas, the county won't let me turn my lawn into a meadow. I would love to tear it all out and give it back to the wild plants and animals. And spend 4 hours a weekend on something else.
raydan @ Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:42 am
Looking at old photos and I found this interesting...
The first 4H clubs in Québec started in 1942 and one of the first missions they had was to sensitize kids to the protection and the conservation of natural resources.
They did not talk about climate change at the beginning, that only started in the 60s... so I guess that 4H used these kids to further their agenda.