Calling all Biodiesel users...
MidianKnight @ Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:37 pm
HELL-o from below, once again, mates! Got a question for y'all:
Is anyone out there--in Calgary and environs especially--running "biodiesel" in their diesel-engined (duh!) vehicle(s)? I would like to know how it's worked out for you if so, as I am thinking of either purchasing a diesel vehicle or swapping a diesel engine into one of my cars in the next ~6months. I'd especially like to know how it's worked out in cold weather--IE fuel gelling and what preventative measures for same work best. Also, how easy is it to secure a consistent supply of used fryer oil/grease, or if there are any other consistent sources out there...thanx, mates.
If this isounds workable to me, then I will deeply regret the possibility of having to sell my '84 Toyota Supra (P-spec'), --fun, fast, well-balanced "driver's" car--but not freeing (at least partially) myself from slavery to Big Oil. (Exxon/Mobil profits in 2005 thanx to Bush and Iraq: US $36 Billion. Yes, that's a "B".)
grainfedprairieboy @ Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:00 pm
I'm a biodieseler and I suggest you forget it and just fill up at the Flying J not because you're a fucktard but for the following reasons:
1. You don't know what you're doing: If you are even considering swapping a diesel engine with a former gas unit you haven't got the mechanical aptitude to actually do it or else you wouldn't be considering it in the first place. Further, this lack of mechanical inclination will also cause problems when it comes time to build your still and if you think that the ready-made-off-the-self-internet-ones are the way to go then a fool and his money shall soon be parted with and you'll have a $2000.00-5000.00 collection of small steel and plastic tanks. A proper homemade still should only cost about 300.00 but again, you've got to have the farm boy smarts or don't bother.
2. Hassle: We get around the gelling problem by running dual tanks. In the first tank is your pure BD and in the second is your mix of anywhere from 25% up. I use a B50 (half/half) in winter. Also, the second tank needs to be rigged with heater coils off the rad. If you have not even experienced the difficulty of starting a diesel on straight fuel that has been plugged in with both a block heater and a vapour pump you can't even imagine trying to get the rigs going in -25 or worse on BD.
3. Cost: SVO stands for straight vegetable oil and some of the new diesels are designed to run on it. Simply put you can pour cooking oil in straight and go so that is the future. Thing is this, vegetable oils are sold based on the price of fuel and generally sell for .40-.90 cents per litre more then the pump price of diesel.
4. Availability: I have a small fleet of trucks which drive all day everyday and I consume anywhere from 200-400 litres of fuel/day. Yellow grease is the product you find behind restaurants in the bins but you'd be lucky to get a tanks worth every 2-3 months from any one restaurant and unless you know the manager who is willing to look the other way as you steal (yes you are stealing) from Alberta Processors Ltd. who is usually the one contracted to supply the bin and haul for a fee then you are SOL. You could buy your yellow grease in bulk from same company but they almost always sell it for exactly the same cost as Flying J sells diesel. (I keep mentioning Flying J as they always sell diesel for about .20-.25 / litre less then the going rate. You used to be able to buy US yellow grease for about .35 Canadian four years ago but a lot of plants have been built in the USA so I reckon the price is in line. If you have a large lot you can buy an old 20,000 litre gas tank that they rip out of gas stations for quite a reasonable price and truck it up in bulk.
5. Waste. You've got to do something with the glycerine. Unless you make soap for everybody you know x 10 you've got to pay big money to dispose of in Swan Hills because it is a hazardous product otherwise.
So if you don't care about your fuel costing 20-40% more per litre, your vehicle being harder to start, your boyfriend bitching about not being able to start vehicle after only a couple of hours at the Backlot, the approximate 4 hours of work required per tank of fuel, and the much higher costs of mechanical repairs associated with a diesel engine then biodieseling is for you.
MidianKnight @ Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:52 pm
grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:
I'm a biodieseler and I suggest you forget it and just fill up at the Flying J not because you're a fucktard but for the following reasons:
1. You don't know what you're doing: If you are even considering swapping a diesel engine with a former gas unit you haven't got the mechanical aptitude to actually do it or else you wouldn't be considering it in the first place. Further, this lack of mechanical inclination will also cause problems when it comes time to build your still and if you think that the ready-made-off-the-self-internet-ones are the way to go then a fool and his money shall soon be parted with and you'll have a $2000.00-5000.00 collection of small steel and plastic tanks. A proper homemade still should only cost about 300.00 but again, you've got to have the farm boy smarts or don't bother.
2. Hassle: We get around the gelling problem by running dual tanks. In the first tank is your pure BD and in the second is your mix of anywhere from 25% up. I use a B50 (half/half) in winter. Also, the second tank needs to be rigged with heater coils off the rad. If you have not even experienced the difficulty of starting a diesel on straight fuel that has been plugged in with both a block heater and a vapour pump you can't even imagine trying to get the rigs going in -25 or worse on BD.
3. Cost: SVO stands for straight vegetable oil and some of the new diesels are designed to run on it. Simply put you can pour cooking oil in straight and go so that is the future. Thing is this, vegetable oils are sold based on the price of fuel and generally sell for .40-.90 cents per litre more then the pump price of diesel.
4. Availability: I have a small fleet of trucks which drive all day everyday and I consume anywhere from 200-400 litres of fuel/day. Yellow grease is the product you find behind restaurants in the bins but you'd be lucky to get a tanks worth every 2-3 months from any one restaurant and unless you know the manager who is willing to look the other way as you steal (yes you are stealing) from Alberta Processors Ltd. who is usually the one contracted to supply the bin and haul for a fee then you are SOL. You could buy your yellow grease in bulk from same company but they almost always sell it for exactly the same cost as Flying J sells diesel. (I keep mentioning Flying J as they always sell diesel for about .20-.25 / litre less then the going rate. You used to be able to buy US yellow grease for about .35 Canadian four years ago but a lot of plants have been built in the USA so I reckon the price is in line. If you have a large lot you can buy an old 20,000 litre gas tank that they rip out of gas stations for quite a reasonable price and truck it up in bulk.
5. Waste. You've got to do something with the glycerine. Unless you make soap for everybody you know x 10 you've got to pay big money to dispose of in Swan Hills because it is a hazardous product otherwise.
So if you don't care about your fuel costing 20-40% more per litre, your vehicle being harder to start, your boyfriend bitching about not being able to start vehicle after only a couple of hours at the Backlot, the approximate 4 hours of work required per tank of fuel, and the much higher costs of mechanical repairs associated with a diesel engine then biodieseling is for you.
1. You don't know what you're doing: If you are even considering swapping a diesel engine with a former gas unit you haven't got the mechanical aptitude to actually do it or else you wouldn't be considering it in the first place. Further, this lack of mechanical inclination will also cause problems when it comes time to build your still and if you think that the ready-made-off-the-self-internet-ones are the way to go then a fool and his money shall soon be parted with and you'll have a $2000.00-5000.00 collection of small steel and plastic tanks. A proper homemade still should only cost about 300.00 but again, you've got to have the farm boy smarts or don't bother.
2. Hassle: We get around the gelling problem by running dual tanks. In the first tank is your pure BD and in the second is your mix of anywhere from 25% up. I use a B50 (half/half) in winter. Also, the second tank needs to be rigged with heater coils off the rad. If you have not even experienced the difficulty of starting a diesel on straight fuel that has been plugged in with both a block heater and a vapour pump you can't even imagine trying to get the rigs going in -25 or worse on BD.
3. Cost: SVO stands for straight vegetable oil and some of the new diesels are designed to run on it. Simply put you can pour cooking oil in straight and go so that is the future. Thing is this, vegetable oils are sold based on the price of fuel and generally sell for .40-.90 cents per litre more then the pump price of diesel.
4. Availability: I have a small fleet of trucks which drive all day everyday and I consume anywhere from 200-400 litres of fuel/day. Yellow grease is the product you find behind restaurants in the bins but you'd be lucky to get a tanks worth every 2-3 months from any one restaurant and unless you know the manager who is willing to look the other way as you steal (yes you are stealing) from Alberta Processors Ltd. who is usually the one contracted to supply the bin and haul for a fee then you are SOL. You could buy your yellow grease in bulk from same company but they almost always sell it for exactly the same cost as Flying J sells diesel. (I keep mentioning Flying J as they always sell diesel for about .20-.25 / litre less then the going rate. You used to be able to buy US yellow grease for about .35 Canadian four years ago but a lot of plants have been built in the USA so I reckon the price is in line. If you have a large lot you can buy an old 20,000 litre gas tank that they rip out of gas stations for quite a reasonable price and truck it up in bulk.
5. Waste. You've got to do something with the glycerine. Unless you make soap for everybody you know x 10 you've got to pay big money to dispose of in Swan Hills because it is a hazardous product otherwise.
So if you don't care about your fuel costing 20-40% more per litre, your vehicle being harder to start, your boyfriend bitching about not being able to start vehicle after only a couple of hours at the Backlot, the approximate 4 hours of work required per tank of fuel, and the much higher costs of mechanical repairs associated with a diesel engine then biodieseling is for you.
Twisting wrenches and making "crackly bacon" noises with a MIG is not exactly foreign to my experience, mate...while I freely admit I'm not any kind of "mechanic," I do well enough, at least within the limitations imposed by my tools and facilities--pretty basic, and near non-existent, respectively.
I'm not even close to the only one considering weird swaps...or more than just considering; there's a guy in, I think, Cranbrook BC who's swapped a GM/Detroit Diesel 6.5 litre (non-turbo) into a late 70s Corvette, to name just 1 of many others I've seen. Also I keep hearing about PowerStroke Turbos in Ford LTD/Crown Victorias, but the electronic issues b/w the engine and car--never meant to go together--would admittedly be way beyond me (mechanical no prob', electric/electronic no way!). Check out <<the diesel page.com>> for a great many more cool 6.2/6.5 swaps as well as interesting hop-ups of that engine--one guy in Holland got his to turn 5500+ rpm in a competition pulling tractor...if you're into the "hot-rod" angle, that is. Oh yeah, the 6.2/6.5 uses the same mounts as a small-block Chevy petrol V8, and is dimensionally similar to the big block "Rat Motor"...sounds like interesting potential there...Even if I was the only one, someone always has to be the first.
Re: Alberta Processors--sounds like another good ole' government-assisted corporate monopoly handed to them on a silver platter--does no-one see anything inherently wrong with this?
I intend to run an auxillary tank regardless for the extra range at least--fuel heating using "fuel hose within coolant hose" tee'd off the vehicle's heater hoses to a copper coil in the tank (q.v.: Joshua Tickell: From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank ). But I wonder if a driver-controllable electric heating element in the tank(s) is do-able? I don't much like the idea of how vulnerable those coolant hoses passing under the vehicle might be.
Thanx for the other tips, also.
One other thing, mate: what does anyone's sexual preference have to do with this? Especially when your attempted dig is:
A) completely baseless and plain wrong?
B) a hopelessly worn-out cliche even by Alberta standards?
C) can be taken as a sign of "certain isuues" on your part? Overcompensation? Depressingly pandemical around here...
I only call you on this, not because you're a fucktard, but because that's just incredibly ignorant and tired. But again, sincerely, thanx for the heads-up.
Yours, His Imperial Majesty, the Emperor of Fucktards
P.S.: now that you've promoted me to Emperor, do I get to refer to myself as "We"?
Zipperfish @ Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:58 pm
MidianKnight MidianKnight:
I only call you on this, not because you're a fucktard, but because that's just incredibly ignorant and tired. But again, sincerely, thanx for the heads-up.
Yours, His Imperial Majesty, the Emperor of Fucktards
P.S.: now that you've promoted me to Emperor, do I get to refer to myself as "We"?
Yours, His Imperial Majesty, the Emperor of Fucktards
P.S.: now that you've promoted me to Emperor, do I get to refer to myself as "We"?
EmperorLiam @ Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:09 pm
"farm boy smarts"
Thats an oxymoron.
There is a virtual monopoly in Alberta by West Coast Reduction, but I'm sure you can just 'steal' it from Eny restaurant you want.
NWCanuck @ Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:53 pm
" Hassle: We get around the gelling problem by running dual tanks. In the first tank is your pure BD and in the second is your mix of anywhere from 25% up. I use a B50 (half/half) in winter. Also, the second tank needs to be rigged with heater coils off the rad. If you have not even experienced the difficulty of starting a diesel on straight fuel that has been plugged in with both a block heater and a vapour pump you can't even imagine trying to get the rigs going in -25 or worse on BD. "
- swap out the coolant based heating system for an electrical one!
Flat patches you can adhere to the outside of the tank will keep it toasty warm and are available at places like Gregg distributors for pretty cheap- be careful which one you use - they suck power like mad and some are overpriced! Building the circuit to run it would be easier than plumbing your tank with coolant lines and would allow you to run it off of your alternator while driving and off of an external plug in with your block heater for easier starting. Just don't forget the switch and inverter- you don't need your battery drained while parked and alternators can react badly to 120V AC .
If that doen't work I guess you could just have a spigot and run straight diesel during the wintertime. Hey do any of the anti gelling products used for petroluem diesel work in BD? I've always been curious.
I ran an old (1971) mercedes benz diesel car for years and know of what you speak. Plugging in your oil pan heater with your block heater and your battery heater so you can preheat and start at -40 is a pain! At least with the heating pads you don't have to break out the tiger torch.
All of this said, the only way you could really beat the costs of buying vegetable oil is to take one more step back and pick up some Canola and crush it youself. Don't ask me how that would work.....
As for the glycerine, I would say that you are doomed to starting a soap company. Time to embargo foreign cleaning products 
!
sasquatch2 @ Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:40 pm
EmperorLiam
$1:
"farm boy smarts"
Thats an oxymoron.
Thats an oxymoron.
One of the things I could never understand was how some urbanite with a dirty T-shirt and empty pockets could possible consider himself superior to a farmer......
Especially when you confront him with your shotgun, stealing diesel from your tractor----(he thinks it's gas).......