Pump the brakes: safety experts say more review needed
bootlegga @ Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:22 pm
Pump the brakes: safety experts say more review needed before Alberta ups highway speed
$1:
Road safety experts are cautioning Alberta to slow down a proposal to raise speed limits on highways outside its cities.
A private member's bill could make Alberta the latest province to tinker with its speed limits. The bill, put forward by Spruce Grove-Stony Plain MLA Searle Turton last week, would increase speed limits on all non-urban divided highways from 110 km/h to 120.
British Columbia raised its highway limits by the same margin in 2014. Gordon Lovegrove, associate professor of engineering at the University of British Columbia Okanagan, found fatal collisions increased by 118 per cent over the next three years, which prompted the government to revert back in some areas.
His advice for Alberta?
"Do [this] with a lot of forethought and planning," he said.
Increasing speed means there's that much more energy to contend with should a crash happen.
"We become a pinball inside a car in a crash," he said. "The driver has less reaction time at a higher speed, you've got less distance because you've gone further at that higher speed before you react."
"What are you willing to give up for the benefit, for the gain of, what, are you going to arrive five minutes faster?" he said.
Turton, for his part, says Alberta's stretches of flat, straight highways are built for the higher limit. But if concerns arise, the bill grants the transportation minister power to lower it again where needed.
Don Voaklander, director of the injury prevention centre at the University of Alberta, said the impacts of the bill would reach beyond just individuals.
He estimates the higher speed equates to a 10 per cent rise in fuel consumption, and called putting forward the bill during a climate crisis "a bit tone deaf."
He said the increase might be okay on some east-west highways, but on Highway 2, it could be problematic.
"There's a mix of slow and fast vehicles and it's very densely populated at certain times of the day," Voaklander said.
"Traffic collisions themselves, raising the speed limit by that much, will raise the number of casualty collisions by about 18 per cent, but the number of fatality collisions is about 36 per cent."
Voaklander said there are a lot of people who drive 120 km/h anyway on the highway. If the speed limit gets raised, people could just go that much faster, he said.
And that could increase the speed differential between vehicles, making highways more dangerous, both experts said. Slower vehicles, such as RVs and transport trucks, might stay below the limit, while speeders will feel emboldened to continue driving above it.
A private member's bill could make Alberta the latest province to tinker with its speed limits. The bill, put forward by Spruce Grove-Stony Plain MLA Searle Turton last week, would increase speed limits on all non-urban divided highways from 110 km/h to 120.
British Columbia raised its highway limits by the same margin in 2014. Gordon Lovegrove, associate professor of engineering at the University of British Columbia Okanagan, found fatal collisions increased by 118 per cent over the next three years, which prompted the government to revert back in some areas.
His advice for Alberta?
"Do [this] with a lot of forethought and planning," he said.
Increasing speed means there's that much more energy to contend with should a crash happen.
"We become a pinball inside a car in a crash," he said. "The driver has less reaction time at a higher speed, you've got less distance because you've gone further at that higher speed before you react."
"What are you willing to give up for the benefit, for the gain of, what, are you going to arrive five minutes faster?" he said.
Turton, for his part, says Alberta's stretches of flat, straight highways are built for the higher limit. But if concerns arise, the bill grants the transportation minister power to lower it again where needed.
Don Voaklander, director of the injury prevention centre at the University of Alberta, said the impacts of the bill would reach beyond just individuals.
He estimates the higher speed equates to a 10 per cent rise in fuel consumption, and called putting forward the bill during a climate crisis "a bit tone deaf."
He said the increase might be okay on some east-west highways, but on Highway 2, it could be problematic.
"There's a mix of slow and fast vehicles and it's very densely populated at certain times of the day," Voaklander said.
"Traffic collisions themselves, raising the speed limit by that much, will raise the number of casualty collisions by about 18 per cent, but the number of fatality collisions is about 36 per cent."
Voaklander said there are a lot of people who drive 120 km/h anyway on the highway. If the speed limit gets raised, people could just go that much faster, he said.
And that could increase the speed differential between vehicles, making highways more dangerous, both experts said. Slower vehicles, such as RVs and transport trucks, might stay below the limit, while speeders will feel emboldened to continue driving above it.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton ... -1.5949691
That MLA isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer - almost 1/4 of deaths on Alberta roads is due to speeding.
DrCaleb @ Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:16 pm
Just because you can speed, doesn't mean you should. Roads aren't designed for 120, and that will cause accidents.
bootlegga @ Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:27 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Just because you can speed, doesn't mean you should. Roads aren't designed for 120, and that will cause accidents.
Especially not Yellowhead or QEII (proposed highways in Bill 213), which have turnouts and turning lanes on them.
The only place this would be safe is on freeways (like the US Interstate system). The only two true freeways in Alberta are the ring roads in Edmonton and Calgary.
https://www.diffen.com/difference/Freeway_vs_Highway
If the UCP wants to do this, they need to invest a $10 or $20 billion to make those twinned highways true freeways.
raydan @ Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:31 pm
First world problems. What are the benefits for the province (if any) of raising the speed limits?
xerxes @ Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:34 pm
None really. If anything it’s the province acceding to reality that people drive that fast anyway.
They did that here in BC recently and upped the speed limits to 110 on some highways. Then they rescinded those changes a year later when there was a noticeable increase in crashes.
raydan @ Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:17 pm
So, let's legalize all drugs since people use drugs anyways... what about legalizing alcohol and cannabis use for minors.
We can probably think of a lot of things to legalize... because.
DrCaleb @ Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:47 pm
bootlegga bootlegga:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Just because you can speed, doesn't mean you should. Roads aren't designed for 120, and that will cause accidents.
Especially not Yellowhead or QEII (proposed highways in Bill 213), which have turnouts and turning lanes on them.
The only place this would be safe is on freeways (like the US Interstate system). The only two true freeways in Alberta are the ring roads in Edmonton and Calgary.
https://www.diffen.com/difference/Freeway_vs_Highway
If the UCP wants to do this, they need to invest a $10 or $20 billion to make those twinned highways true freeways.
All roads are designed for a certain speed. There are allowances for bumps, for banking in turns, in distance between corners and intersections. Lane width and distance between vehicles. All these things determine what speed the road can accept and still remain safe. That is why there are so many high speed single vehicle accidents, because people exceeded those limits.
That bill was stupid because you can't change the safe maximum speed of many highways and freeways after they are built. Ever take the southwest leg of the Henday with that wonderful section of concrete road? Now try it pulling a trailer!
Now try it doing 150. 
Thanos @ Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:22 pm
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Just because you can speed, doesn't mean you should. Roads aren't designed for 120, and that will cause accidents.
Yeah, but they're the UCP so by default they're going to do whatever they can to make the stupidest, most selfish, and most redneck among us happy. The inevitable increase in carnage won't mean shit to them in the slightest if a change like this helps them solidify The Base. A long time ago one of Klein's rural MLA's tried to make it easier for people to drive drunk. That sort of mentality obviously never died out if their new angle of attack is to turn our already deadly highways into some kind of redneck Autobahn.
Alberta is rapidly becoming a place to leave as soon as possible, especially for anyone who still believes in the law or in that consideration for others actually matters. These right-wing assholes are turning us into a place to be embarrassed of living in or coming from. And, just like American right-wingers and MAGA-types, they don't care in the slightest if innocent people's lives are the cost of their reckless ideology.
bootlegga @ Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:30 am
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
bootlegga bootlegga:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Just because you can speed, doesn't mean you should. Roads aren't designed for 120, and that will cause accidents.
Especially not Yellowhead or QEII (proposed highways in Bill 213), which have turnouts and turning lanes on them.
The only place this would be safe is on freeways (like the US Interstate system). The only two true freeways in Alberta are the ring roads in Edmonton and Calgary.
https://www.diffen.com/difference/Freeway_vs_Highway
If the UCP wants to do this, they need to invest a $10 or $20 billion to make those twinned highways true freeways.
All roads are designed for a certain speed. There are allowances for bumps, for banking in turns, in distance between corners and intersections. Lane width and distance between vehicles. All these things determine what speed the road can accept and still remain safe. That is why there are so many high speed single vehicle accidents, because people exceeded those limits.
That bill was stupid because you can't change the safe maximum speed of many highways and freeways after they are built. Ever take the southwest leg of the Henday with that wonderful section of concrete road? Now try it pulling a trailer!
Now try it doing 150. Oh you can definitely change the safety of a road after they are built - by spending a hundred million or two to add an interchange, add rumble strips along the shoulders, widen the shoulders, add cable barriers to prevent cross-over collisions, grade the ditches so they are gradual instead of steep drop-offs, etc.
As this video shows, there's a reason why speeds are set the way they are:
It also shows that with smart investment in road construction, crashes can be survivable. Under Premier Stelmach (a former Transportation Minister), the government was willing to spend money on these kinds of steps.
The problem is the current government has little interest in spending the money necessary to make our highways safer, especially in light of this asinine bill.
I've driven that stretch of the Henday dozens, if not hundreds of times, and they have improved safety on it by adding the 135 street interchange and removing the 127 street right in/right outs that used to exist.
As for the concrete on the road itself, it was a test to see if using concrete on our highways (like many US Interstates) was a good idea. Based on user experience and interviews from government officials, it wasn't.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton ... -1.5889766
DrCaleb @ Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:19 am
bootlegga bootlegga:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
bootlegga bootlegga:
Especially not Yellowhead or QEII (proposed highways in Bill 213), which have turnouts and turning lanes on them.
The only place this would be safe is on freeways (like the US Interstate system). The only two true freeways in Alberta are the ring roads in Edmonton and Calgary.
https://www.diffen.com/difference/Freeway_vs_Highway
If the UCP wants to do this, they need to invest a $10 or $20 billion to make those twinned highways true freeways.
All roads are designed for a certain speed. There are allowances for bumps, for banking in turns, in distance between corners and intersections. Lane width and distance between vehicles. All these things determine what speed the road can accept and still remain safe. That is why there are so many high speed single vehicle accidents, because people exceeded those limits.
That bill was stupid because you can't change the safe maximum speed of many highways and freeways after they are built. Ever take the southwest leg of the Henday with that wonderful section of concrete road? Now try it pulling a trailer!
Now try it doing 150. Oh you can definitely change the safety of a road after they are built - by spending a hundred million or two to add an interchange, add rumble strips along the shoulders, widen the shoulders, add cable barriers to prevent cross-over collisions, grade the ditches so they are gradual instead of steep drop-offs, etc.
As this video shows, there's a reason why speeds are set the way they are:
Preaching to the choir there Boots. In my experience with the people designing the Castrol Raceway to become an FIA approved road course, I saw the decisions needed in order to prevent accidents. Banking on certain curves, and all potential areas for mistakes to lead to collisions end up sending the vehicle into open field, or gravel traps. It's very rare to have vehicle to vehicle 'accidents'. But it's racing, not driving. Although many of the same principals apply, as that video showed.
And yea, with enough money you can do anything. But that bill didn't include money to eliminate the possibility of speed related hazards. Just the desire to legalize what people already do on the highways, with the totally lax enforcement out there.
bootlegga bootlegga:
It also shows that with smart investment in road construction, crashes can be survivable. Under Premier Stelmach (a former Transportation Minister), the government was willing to spend money on these kinds of steps.
The problem is the current government has little interest in spending the money necessary to make our highways safer, especially in light of this asinine bill.
I've driven that stretch of the Henday dozens, if not hundreds of times, and they have improved safety on it by adding the 135 street interchange and removing the 127 street right in/right outs that used to exist.
As for the concrete on the road itself, it was a test to see if using concrete on our highways (like many US Interstates) was a good idea. Based on user experience and interviews from government officials, it wasn't.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton ... -1.5889766
The problem is the current government has little interest in spending the money necessary to make our highways safer, especially in light of this asinine bill.
I've driven that stretch of the Henday dozens, if not hundreds of times, and they have improved safety on it by adding the 135 street interchange and removing the 127 street right in/right outs that used to exist.
As for the concrete on the road itself, it was a test to see if using concrete on our highways (like many US Interstates) was a good idea. Based on user experience and interviews from government officials, it wasn't.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton ... -1.5889766
That article is one I was thinking of.
I only tow a 20 foot trailer, sometimes. I will go so far as driving all the way down highway 60, through Devon and Leduc rather than take that leg of the Henday with my cars in tow.But even just driving my truck over it is impossible with a cup of tea in the cupholder.
herbie @ Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:23 am
Raise the speed all you want. You can rely on the Old Poop in the left lane pacing the truck on the right lane going 80 kph.
And the arsehole trucker moving to the right lane and gunning it up to 130 kph to make sure you're not gonna pass no matter what.
And the snivelling chickenshits who think it's too dangerous to go down a hill or around a curve at the posted limit.
fifeboy @ Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:08 pm
raydan raydan:
First world problems. What are the benefits for the province (if any) of raising the speed limits?
Uses......more......fuel!!!!!!!
Tricks @ Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:47 am
Ruining my ability to go faster eh you fuckers?