Baby becomes a gunshot victim
CamCKA @ Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:31 am
Wow, I go away for a couple of days and find out that my posts has caused a feud between Lily and HonoraryHoser. Everybody put your guns down!
I'm going to refer back to a couple of responses from the early stages of this argument:
$1:
You still need a REASON.
Nope. I own three firearms, two are handguns. I don't hunt. They're not antiques or replicas, so I'm not a collector either. I live in a decent neighborhood, so they're not for self-defense. I have no REASON to own them other than I saw them, wanted them, had the money, and bought them. I also own 5 guitars. Don't really have a reason for it...I can only play one at a time, but I own five. I own two vehicles, and one is 4 wheel drive, lifted on 35" tires, and gets about 8 MPG. I can only drive one at a time, and I don't really have a REASON for that either. I also own probably over 1000 CDs. I can only listen to one at a time. Don't really have a REASON for that either. I own more than one set of clothes. No REASON for more than one. Alright, maybe two, so I can wear one while I wash the other. I also own cutlery, which I don't really need and therefore don't have a REASON for. Running water and electricity too...I can live without them, therefore I don't really have a REASON for those either.
Nope. I own three firearms, two are handguns. I don't hunt. They're not antiques or replicas, so I'm not a collector either. I live in a decent neighborhood, so they're not for self-defense. I have no REASON to own them other than I saw them, wanted them, had the money, and bought them. I also own 5 guitars. Don't really have a reason for it...I can only play one at a time, but I own five. I own two vehicles, and one is 4 wheel drive, lifted on 35" tires, and gets about 8 MPG. I can only drive one at a time, and I don't really have a REASON for that either. I also own probably over 1000 CDs. I can only listen to one at a time. Don't really have a REASON for that either. I own more than one set of clothes. No REASON for more than one. Alright, maybe two, so I can wear one while I wash the other. I also own cutlery, which I don't really need and therefore don't have a REASON for. Running water and electricity too...I can live without them, therefore I don't really have a REASON for those either.
Acutally, you DO need a reason to buy something. Given that purchasing something is a decision, there is by definition a reason for whichever choice you make (i.e. to buy or not to buy). The reason doesn't have to be USEFUL, it just has to be important to you. You have reasons for ownign all of the things that you listed. The reasons range from practical (transportation, hygiene, cultural habits etc.) to personal style (5 guitars, lots of clothes, etc.). So, what IS your reason for owning the guns. If it isn't as you state, as a collector, or for protection, etc., then it's the same reason you own 5 guitars and I own 3 cellphones, 2 personal organizers and am currently lusting after a Sony PSP. A sense of personal fulfillment through the acquisition of objects that we feel identify us as belonging to some group or type of personality. This is, of course a totally normal part of the numan condition.
It's just that I, personally, can't imagine owning a machine of death for a reason other than one which is practical, such as reducing the odds of my own or my family's death. And since I am of the opinion that owning a gun actually increases the odds of injury to me or my loved ones, I choose not to.
$1:
The point is a certain percentage of the population isn't exposed to, and therefore fears handguns, and it is human nature to want to get rid of the unknown, that which we fear. If children are educated about the uses and dangers of firearms, you remove the chance of accidents, remove the fear, and popular opinion of firearms will change from unneccesary killing machines to useful tools, as it was in the past.
Acutally, I grew up knowing guns quite well. I have been hunting many times with my father and other family members, and I have several family members who own hunting rifles. I was taught how to respect guns, how to care for them, how to use them, and how to store them. I do not fear them because they are unknown to me. I respect the fact that they are tools whose sole purpose is to kill living beings, which can be a useful act, but for which I have no use. Given that I have no particular desire to kill anything, guns are, in effect, a totally useless instrument for me which would bring only additional danger to my household.
If someone could show me that the net result of keeping a handgun at home was to reduce the odds of injury of death to myself or my family members, then I would get one, and train myself to use it well. Until then, it remains a potentially dangerous item which has no place in my household.
-CamCKA
Chopper @ Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:11 am
lily lily:
The question was... how many accidental shootings occur compared to how many homes are protected from intruders? Is having a gun in the home in fact a deterrent, or does it actually cause more harm?
I've searched the web high and low to try to find some kind of obscure study (which I'm sure our government would have paid for) to answer this question. I found one link: http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/qa.html
It also offers some interesting data. Such as:
"Stats Canada tells us that of the 1320 deaths by firearms in Canada, 80% are suicides (1056), 15% are homicides (198) including self defence homicides, and 5% are accidents (66)."
How do you interpret this data? A portion of 198 firearms related deaths were self-defence homicides. In my humble opinion, I would venture to guess that more than half were self-defence related. So I guess I can say that approximately 100 violent crimes were prevented by firearm ownership.
Does that answer your question Lily?
Nugga_Nu @ Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:37 am
canucker canucker:
Baby becomes gunshot victim
One reason why I don't believe in guns. People get angry and don't think about the consequences.
One reason why I don't believe in guns. People get angry and don't think about the consequences.Good job we have that gun registry so stuff like this doesn't happen. /sarcasm off
Chopper @ Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:50 am
lily lily:
Not really. You've taken decent numbers and interpreted them based on a guess.
There is just no "give" in you is there Lily
Without hard data, all I have to offer is guesses and opinion.lily lily:
Out of 198 homicides, I would guess that less than half of them were self-defence. What are the odds that the initial "victim" also had a gun at the ready?
I think a similar study in the U.S. would help to shed more light on this though. The numbers should be about 10X higher, based on population. Any higher and we could conclude that guns make a person less safe. Any lower and we can conclude that they act as a deterrent.
Or did I get that backwards?
I think a similar study in the U.S. would help to shed more light on this though. The numbers should be about 10X higher, based on population. Any higher and we could conclude that guns make a person less safe. Any lower and we can conclude that they act as a deterrent.
Or did I get that backwards?
There is an abundance of data available in the States, however, it seems whatever site you go to, their results are skewed to suit their standpoint on the issue. Bottom line...I tried, and failed.
Chevyanne @ Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:56 pm
Wow, this sure stirred the pot with alot of people. I never read the story about the baby (I guess it was removed over time).But I think I'll add my two cents if I can.
First, I own guns, yes, I kill little, furry, cute animals,(they taste great!)I grew up in a family where it was normal to see guns, as we grew older we learned how to use them. For me and many others, it's just a fact of life.
Second, to say you have a gun for self defense, like a loaded hand gun in your night stand, kinda makes me laugh. Say some one breaks in, if you're like alot of people you won't hear them until they are there in your room.So now you have just woke up, saw some guys shadow standing over you, do you really think your going to get your gun, wipe the gunk from your eyes, focus your sight, and then what? shoot him? um, okay. If you're that scared to be in your own house maybe you should consider a different style and location of living.
If you have a loaded gun in your house you're just asking for trouble. 'Cause if it's loaded chances are you have it where you, and anyone else, can get to it. And if it is locked away than there really isn't any reason to have it loaded.
Also, I know a few people who have guns, just because. Whether, they were given down from family, or just because it was there for the taking.
Anyways that was just my two bits, now if you want to get on the topic of gun control, that could get heated with me. ![[boxing]](./images/smilies/box2.gif "boxing")