Globalization Helps the Third World
Toro @ Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:06 am
Globalization is GRRRRREAT!
2-page article.
http://www.aier.org/2003pubs/RR20.pdf
Extreme positions on both sides are non-viable. Communism has demonstrated that it is unworkable. Men and womena re not created equal. Some are born to achieve more than others -- they have will and dirve. In a communist system, these people are weighed down by the free-loaders riding on their coat-tails.
Capitalism is so voracious that, unchecked, it will eat itself.
Globalization is, in principle, a good thing, for the reasons that Bart and Toro pointed out. But that does not mean that there are not reasons for governments to deliberately fetter the free market in pursuit of legitimate social/environmental goals. The failure of some free-marketers to recognize this fact is the reason that globalization has become so unpopular.
One thing that should be factored into global poverty estimates are the 250 million or so people that the UN says earn no money in any given year. These people are tribal subsistance fishermen, farmers, and hunter-gatherers.
They simply do not participate in our economy and they are perfectly happy to be left alone the way they are.
As such, they should not be included in poverty estimates since many of these people within their own groups may well be considered 'rich'.
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
Extreme positions on both sides are non-viable. Communism has demonstrated that it is unworkable. Men and womena re not created equal. Some are born to achieve more than others -- they have will and dirve. In a communist system, these people are weighed down by the free-loaders riding on their coat-tails.
Capitalism is so voracious that, unchecked, it will eat itself.
Globalization is, in principle, a good thing, for the reasons that Bart and Toro pointed out. But that does not mean that there are not reasons for governments to deliberately fetter the free market in pursuit of legitimate social/environmental goals. The failure of some free-marketers to recognize this fact is the reason that globalization has become so unpopular.
Good bye Canada, baby. Yeeehaaawww. Foolish notion. Capitalism eats itself; show me the proof.
xerxes @ Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:57 am
The Great Depression. An classic example of how unckecked capitalism caused its temporary demise.
IceOwl IceOwl:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
dgthe3 dgthe3:
Globalization does nothing to help anyone but the rich. There is no situation where everyone can get richer. One must lose so somone else can gain.
This is only true in
zero sum economies. In a gold standard economy there is a finite supply of gold and when one person gets rich other people as a result must get poorer.
We don't have a gold standard economy, and haven't since the 1930s.
We have an inflation-based economy.
$1:
The old paradigms of rich and poor no longer apply.
If that were true, there would be no class division, and no need for a middle class, but it's still there, and removing it still leads to a massive divide between rich and poor.
IceOwl, I suspect your very left-wing leanings would change were you to spend twelve years going to school. then four more years in an entry level job, and then to finally earn decent money after sixteen years of sacrifice just to have some prick come along and call you "rich" as if you did nothing to earn it.
This happens to doctors every day.
At 26 you have the views I'd expect from someone your age, but when you get older and retirement is on the horizon you'll find that having even two million dollars in the bank does not at all make you rich. And you'd be pissed as hell at anyone who begrudged you the fruits of a life's labours.
The class warfare things is very fashionable, but I do hope that you'll get a decent job and be successful (really!) and then change your mind and support concepts that will help engender your success in future generations.
Right now much of what you post reflects the politics of envy.
In Canada there is no one stopping anyone from being successful in a legal endeavour.
You can succeed if it is important enough to you to make the sacrifices required for success in your chosen endeavour.
Even successful criminals have to work hard and sacrifice. Bank robbers don't sit on their ass at home waiting for a bag of money to be left at their door, now do they?
At 26 you would be well served to start planning your retirement and saving for your future and then you'd be able to retire early, maybe even in your eary fifties, and then pursue your Revolution full-time if you wanted.
xerxes xerxes:
The Great Depression. An classic example of how unckecked capitalism caused its temporary demise.
Agreed. The banks irresponsibly lent out money for specious investments and then the investments were bought on margin (like with 5% down) and when the money supply dried up the whole house of cards collapsed.
In the USA this economic collapse was exacerbated by a drought of unprecedented proportions in the Midwest (the Dust Bowl) and that ironically led to a mass migration of rural people to the cities.
I say "ironic" because when WW2 started coming along this happenstance gave the US a labour supply in the industrial regions that was all set to go.
I remember my economics prof. saying that the Depression and the Dust Bowl directly contributed to victory in WW2.
It's weird, but when he explained it all it made sense.
xerxes @ Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:32 pm
How true, it is really weird.
S&L Crisis when the S&L's got heavy in to real estate and lost their asses on defaulted loans.
Toro @ Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:51 pm
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
xerxes xerxes:
The Great Depression. An classic example of how unckecked capitalism caused its temporary demise.
Agreed. The banks irresponsibly lent out money for specious investments and then the investments were bought on margin (like with 5% down) and when the money supply dried up the whole house of cards collapsed.
In the USA this economic collapse was exacerbated by a drought of unprecedented proportions in the Midwest (the Dust Bowl) and that ironically led to a mass migration of rural people to the cities.
I say "ironic" because when WW2 started coming along this happenstance gave the US a labour supply in the industrial regions that was all set to go.
I remember my economics prof. saying that the Depression and the Dust Bowl directly contributed to victory in WW2.
It's weird, but when he explained it all it made sense.
Contributing to the Great Depression were also tremendous policy errors. Most often cited is the Smoot-Hawley tariff laws, protectionist measures designed to "protect jobs." But more important was that the Fed continued to raise interest rates well past the stock market crashed and kept monetary conditions tight for too long. There were many reasons why the Depression occurred but this was probably the biggest factor for the Depression.
xerxes @ Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:57 pm
The crash was also a masterpiece of bad timing. All those protectionist acts were coming into effect at the same time when the Fed was climbing into its magical make-believe world coupled with the repercussions of overproduction and declining consumer spending power.
Scape @ Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:19 pm
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
The board game Monopoly is an example of zero sum economics. There is a finite supply of money and once one person controls the wealth everyone else loses.
But imagine if in every turn-based cycle that an additional $500 was placed into play and people could pick up more money no matter how much was controlled by the leader.
Then there'd be a fair chance for the other players to become the leader themselves.
At the least they could stay in the game.
This is how the global economy functions now.
Check this mod of a classic board game
xerxes xerxes:
American American:
Bart, you're causing trouble again. Your non-socialist statements will no be popular.

They may or may not be popular, but I still appreciate them nonetheless. I may disagree with Bart on 98% of all things discussed but I still value his opinions because I porbably would never have encountered them otherwise. If I can echo Avro for a bit, I also believe that under capitalism there will always be poor people. It is capitalism's motivation mechanism and at the same time, it's curse.
Communism, like a lot of other things, is a good idea in principle. The goal of making sure all people aren't left behind by capitalism is a laudable one. It's just that the means of doing so are the antithesis of human nature.
Anyways, back to the topic...Globalization may have raised poverty levels slightly, but there are still people all over the world who are desperately ppor. What Globalization has accomplished is the concentration of wealth an number of western corporations at the expense of the working poor in the third world by taking the jobs usually done by skilled labourers in N. America and Europe and giving them to unskilled labourers at 1/10 of the pay.
Thank you. And likewise. I do not enjoy simply hearing the same thjings over and over and I'll note that some of my opinions on certain issues have, indeed, changed since I joined up eight months ago.
Scape Scape:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
The board game Monopoly is an example of zero sum economics. There is a finite supply of money and once one person controls the wealth everyone else loses.
But imagine if in every turn-based cycle that an additional $500 was placed into play and people could pick up more money no matter how much was controlled by the leader.
Then there'd be a fair chance for the other players to become the leader themselves.
At the least they could stay in the game.
This is how the global economy functions now.
Check this mod of a classic board game
Of course we'd have to make the game board larger with more properties.