Canada Kicks Ass
Wind Farm Challenged

REPLY

Previous  1  2  3  4  5 ... 8  Next



ShepherdsDog @ Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:25 pm

Put them between Winnipeg and Calgary, where they won't be blocking any scenery . Hell for that matter cover all of Sakatchewan all the way to PA. As for migratory paths, think of it as Avian Fear Factor.

   



Banff @ Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:30 pm

:arrow:

   



Blue_Nose @ Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:43 am

Banff Banff:
shhh I hope you can keep a secret so don't tell anyone but I'm price bloging ....anyway on a more serious note what you say may be true (maybe) but I think Mukluk is right and cost effectiveness does have something to do with it along with invading large areas of land . Wind farms are good for outlying smaller communities but the ratio to large populations would be a horrible eyesore and invasion of even more land which in my opinion unjustifys the cause unless it was irresistably cheap cheap cheap.
Hydroelectric generators require dams, which require the creation of resevoirs (lakes) that destroy waterfront property for anyone upstream of the dam for several kilometers. This is somehow a more justifiable "invasion" of land? People who build wind turbines can often get a deal with the power company to hook up to the normal power grid, and be paid for any excess energy they produce. It's not exactly an "invasion" of land when the owner builds it themselves.
Banff Banff:
This would make people take the renewable resource more seriously but because it is investor substantiated the rise in cost of fossil fuels and other expensive projects is the only way to reach that appeal to be taken seriously . I probably sound hopelessly pessimistic but who isn't ? ( Its a double edged sword and frog in throat type of scenario for any consumer < whether it be personal or industrial / business >)
I have no clue as to what a "frog in throat" scenario is, but what you're describing is not news to anyone. Any new technology is developed and implemented because it solves a problem. More often than not (I would posit , that problem is economically related, and increased costs in old technology inspire new ones. Increased prices for fossil fuels, coupled with rising public awareness in environmental concerns, will increase the demand for sustainable sources of energy.

The fact that you don't take wind energy generation "seriously" is unfounded. You obviously don't know much about it, and you haven't justified your disdain for it. It's a growing industry, and already proven to be an economically and environmentally sustainable one. It's you who shouldn't be taken seriously.

   



ridenrain @ Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:19 am

I'd definately push tidal power before wind but then, I am on the coast. The tide rises and falls and waves come in and out. Those can be relied on and have more power potential than the wind.

It's not a one or the other though. Littering all of the prairies with turbines won't bother me. Solar panels are always comming down in price and up in efficiency too.

   



Blue_Nose @ Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:35 am

ridenrain ridenrain:
I'd definately push tidal power before wind but then, I am on the coast. The tide rises and falls and waves come in and out. Those can be relied on and have more power potential than the wind.

It's not a one or the other though. Littering all of the prairies with turbines won't bother me. Solar panels are always comming down in price and up in efficiency too.
Thanks for bringing up tidal power by the way, I think most people don't realize how much potential it has, and how seriously it's been considered

The only issue with tidal, or wave, power is the fact that it's limited to the coastal regions... Huge transmission lines are incredibly wasteful, so most considerations of new energy sources look to avoid their use.

But the most ingenious solution to this was proposed to remedy this: Since the world is also looking for alternative sources of energy for transportation (ie, not just electricity), hydrogen fuel cells have been proposed, but they require large amounts of energy to produce that hydrogen. These tidal/wave generators could therefore be used as floating hydrogen generators, and the hydrogen could be transported inland much more efficiently. Similarly, they can be used as biofuel generators, or anything which is more efficiently distributed inland.

I'm curious as to why you'd rather see tidal power used, being a coastal resident. Tidal power is typically situated in a bay-type setting, where the tidal flow is concentrated (Bay of Fundy in NS, with the highest tides in the world, is the location of the one in use). These bays are also popular as waterfront property, and most residents with boats, or fishermen, don't like the idea of a large floating raft which blocks the channel. I know from personal experience with mussel farmers that people don't want obstructions placed in the water near their property. However, if they're designed to also act as a bridge, for example, the negative aspects are decreased. Like anything, this is only one issue to be considered when looking at the overall benefits/drawbacks.

   



ridenrain @ Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:43 am

Because I'm too poor to buy waterfront property?

I guess it depends on how you envision tidal power.

Sink a big ducted fan in a channel and it's out of sight. Image

Something like a gigantic inflated boom would be a huge blight but then fish farms are pretty ugly too and we do have a lot of un-inhabited coastline to hide them.

   



Blue_Nose @ Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:53 am

ridenrain ridenrain:
Because I'm too poor to buy waterfront property?

I guess it depends on how you envision tidal power.

Sink a big ducted fan in a channel and it's out of sight. Image

Something like a gigantic inflated boom would be a huge blight but then fish farms are pretty ugly too and we do have a lot of un-inhabited coastline to hide them.
Ah... most of the ones I've seen are at least partially above water, and often span between two land points:
ImageImage
(These are from the Blue Energy website, a Canadian company.)
But you're right; they can be hiden away from the populated areas, just like wind turbines can.

   



ridenrain @ Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:59 am

Even if we had big floating fences, the power and "green" benefit would surpass most bitching. We could combine it with the floating bridge to the Island.

   



Blue_Nose @ Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:32 am

What are the currents like in those straits? I'm not asking for numbers or anything, but does the water actually flow through, or just go up and down?

Depending on the volume of seafaring traffic, and the flow rate, I'd say, with all those smaller islands in between, it's definately feasible... plus the bridge is something that has been considered on its own, right?

   



DerbyX @ Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:37 am

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
The only issue with tidal, or wave, power is the fact that it's limited to the coastal regions... Huge transmission lines are incredibly wasteful, so most considerations of new energy sources look to avoid their use.


Aren't there issues to do with power generation being too small to provide for large areas? In addition to being confined to costal areas they are also further confined to areas with sufficient tidal force since the efficiany depends largey on the amplitute of the wave?

There is also the maintenace factor which is considerebly higher then for other methods such as wind. Lastly, because of the dispersal patterns of life in water there is a far greater impact on aquatic life.

Any form of clean renewable energy is worth investigating though and there are probably lots of good locations for them. The Bay of Fundy is always cited as an example because the tidal force there with have the greatest efficiency. I bet Nova Scotia could probably power all her needs with a bunch of tidal generators supplemented by wind generators. Imagine having the first province/region powered entirely be clean renewable energy.

   



ziggy @ Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:41 am

Banff Banff:
themasta themasta:
It's interesting to note that in areas with large wind farms, the number of migratory birds has fallen....In addition, has anyone stopped to think of the consequences of removing all that energy from the air? What will happen to the weather patterns in these areas?
ROTFL R=UP


Nothing,trust me.As for the bird thing,they build them now so there's no place for a nest to be built. As for coal stock,s,buy Fording or Elk Valley Coal Corpration.Their the biggest coal outfit in Canada now.

   



ridenrain @ Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:48 am

Can we get one with sharp blades to dice up seals too?

I'm not sure about the currents between the islands. Most of those waters are pretty calm so I doubt there is much large tidal action.
Sure keeping them running in water would be harder than in air but the the water gives so much more power potential.

   



themasta @ Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:58 am

*sigh* Apparently Banff is the only one with a sense of humour...

   



BartSimpson @ Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:03 am

Wind farms are such a blight when compared to clean, safe nuclear energy.

Image

   



Blue_Nose @ Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:04 am

DerbyX DerbyX:
Aren't there issues to do with power generation being too small to provide for large areas? In addition to being confined to costal areas they are also further confined to areas with sufficient tidal force since the efficiany depends largey on the amplitute of the wave?
The wave generators aren't something I'm familiar with, and sound a little more sketchy, based on my basic understanding of their application. As you said, it depends on the size of the waves, which is largely affected by weather conditions, etc. I imagine the punishment of waves would be much more severe on the machinery than those which rely on tidal currents.
DerbyX DerbyX:
There is also the maintenace factor which is considerebly higher then for other methods such as wind. Lastly, because of the dispersal patterns of life in water there is a far greater impact on aquatic life.

Any form of clean renewable energy is worth investigating though and there are probably lots of good locations for them. The Bay of Fundy is always cited as an example because the tidal force there with have the greatest efficiency. I bet Nova Scotia could probably power all her needs with a bunch of tidal generators supplemented by wind generators. Imagine having the first province/region powered entirely be clean renewable energy.
The tidal generator in place (as I said, the only one in North America, and the second largest of three in the whole world) currently generates enough energy for 4000 homes (source). Adding more would undoubtedly have significant environmental effects, so measures to protect marine life, comparable to fish ladders used in conjunction with hydro generators, would need to be implemented.
Image

   



REPLY

Previous  1  2  3  4  5 ... 8  Next