A Loss of Civility
American @ Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:25 am
$1:
People who think George Bush is the stupid party ought to visit a mirror
Nov. 17, 2004
President George Bush is officially to visit Canada on November 30th. This is really swift. After the frostiness of the last four years between Canada and the U.S. on a number of issues, but particularly on Canada's unwillingness to join the war to depose Saddam Hussein, a visit scheduled so quickly must be a sign that both our countries see some need to warm up the relationship.
We do see some things differently than the Americans, and thank heavens that we do. There wouldn't be much point to being Americans or Canadians if we didn't. And there should be no hesitation, no deference, no finessing, no turning down the volume when we have a point to make to them. Canada can tell the Americans they're wrong anytime it wants to, loudly, clearly, forcefully, and without qualification. And they can do exactly the same with us. Countries, like adults, have the privilege, which is often the responsibility, to make differences known vividly and without compunction.
Unfortunately, and I think it's more on our side of the border than theirs, there are a few prominent types who prefer a more kindergarten approach to U.S./Canada relations. Pat Buchanan, for example, the U.S. commentator sneered at Canada as Canuckistan. No big deal. Buchanan is not elected to anything.
A lot of private Canadians have said a lot worse about U.S. and a whole lot about George Bush. But there's one Canadian who is not a private citizen, she's an MP who's almost worked up a whole vaudeville act built on strands of anti-Americanism and condescending or straight up insults either to the Americans themselves, "Damn Americans, I hate those bastards, coalition of the idiots," or to their president and head of state.
She doesn't hold Mr. Bush in any esteem whatsoever and seems to think it's part of her function as an MP to seek out increasingly ridiculous venues, it used to be the Mike Bullard show, to air her meagre tiny distempers. Now on the eve of the President's visit, Miss Parrish has obliged "22 Minutes" by doing a little number on a George Bush doll.
Pure enlightenment. Miss Parrish occasionally makes the claim that she's extending the debate, that she's standing up to the Americans and all sorts of noble stuff about the right to free speech. I don't know. "Idiots, damn Americans, I hate those bastards," that "22 Minutes" jig, these are words and actions that belong to the classroom show-off, the needy clown, attention getting by means of insult and crude display. They're nothing but "Look at me insulting George Bush and sticking it to the Yanks." It's juvenile, it's smug, and it's vulgar. It will amuse only very limited minds, and it will offend a great number of Americans, even those who do not support George Bush but who don't like to see their head of state derided by second rate comments and third rate stunts by one of our members of Parliament.
I don't want to see her muzzled. Far from it. Let her continue to air her angry heart's content. The deeper embarrassment here is to herself, however long the realization is in coming. And one last note: A lot of people who think George Bush is the stupid party ought to visit a mirror. For "The National," I'm Rex Murphy.
Nov. 17, 2004
President George Bush is officially to visit Canada on November 30th. This is really swift. After the frostiness of the last four years between Canada and the U.S. on a number of issues, but particularly on Canada's unwillingness to join the war to depose Saddam Hussein, a visit scheduled so quickly must be a sign that both our countries see some need to warm up the relationship.
We do see some things differently than the Americans, and thank heavens that we do. There wouldn't be much point to being Americans or Canadians if we didn't. And there should be no hesitation, no deference, no finessing, no turning down the volume when we have a point to make to them. Canada can tell the Americans they're wrong anytime it wants to, loudly, clearly, forcefully, and without qualification. And they can do exactly the same with us. Countries, like adults, have the privilege, which is often the responsibility, to make differences known vividly and without compunction.
Unfortunately, and I think it's more on our side of the border than theirs, there are a few prominent types who prefer a more kindergarten approach to U.S./Canada relations. Pat Buchanan, for example, the U.S. commentator sneered at Canada as Canuckistan. No big deal. Buchanan is not elected to anything.
A lot of private Canadians have said a lot worse about U.S. and a whole lot about George Bush. But there's one Canadian who is not a private citizen, she's an MP who's almost worked up a whole vaudeville act built on strands of anti-Americanism and condescending or straight up insults either to the Americans themselves, "Damn Americans, I hate those bastards, coalition of the idiots," or to their president and head of state.
She doesn't hold Mr. Bush in any esteem whatsoever and seems to think it's part of her function as an MP to seek out increasingly ridiculous venues, it used to be the Mike Bullard show, to air her meagre tiny distempers. Now on the eve of the President's visit, Miss Parrish has obliged "22 Minutes" by doing a little number on a George Bush doll.
Pure enlightenment. Miss Parrish occasionally makes the claim that she's extending the debate, that she's standing up to the Americans and all sorts of noble stuff about the right to free speech. I don't know. "Idiots, damn Americans, I hate those bastards," that "22 Minutes" jig, these are words and actions that belong to the classroom show-off, the needy clown, attention getting by means of insult and crude display. They're nothing but "Look at me insulting George Bush and sticking it to the Yanks." It's juvenile, it's smug, and it's vulgar. It will amuse only very limited minds, and it will offend a great number of Americans, even those who do not support George Bush but who don't like to see their head of state derided by second rate comments and third rate stunts by one of our members of Parliament.
I don't want to see her muzzled. Far from it. Let her continue to air her angry heart's content. The deeper embarrassment here is to herself, however long the realization is in coming. And one last note: A lot of people who think George Bush is the stupid party ought to visit a mirror. For "The National," I'm Rex Murphy.
Good article about something that is very unproductive, and makes it difficult to have good dialogue.
ShepherdsDog @ Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:35 am
Parrish has announced that she will not run for election again, knowing full well that she would lose. She's now moving onto to other things. I hear that Oz is still looking for someone to fill the position of the Wicked Witch of the East. She almost seems over qualified for the job.
Richard @ Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:14 am
I think they should use here to counter that dumbass blonde Coulter or whatever her name is.
Oh by the by that is way old new and was beaten to death already.
American @ Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:21 am
This topic was not posted to discuss Bush's visit to Canada in 2004, but to discuss the ongoing rift between Americans and Canadians. The article points out some issues associated with this rift.
American @ Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:10 pm
Of course not, but it's not good for our leaders to lose their cool and make these kinds of mistakes. This was some pretty strong language for a person at that level.
Streaker @ Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:11 pm
Parrish went too far, that's for sure, but she's a mere backbencher.
American @ Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:14 pm
I glad you appreciate my point. Regardless of the possibility that our leadership may be doing things that frustrate your leadership (and vice versa), we can't have them openly denouncing or insulting the otherside.
DrCaleb @ Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:20 pm
American American:
This topic was not posted to discuss Bush's visit to Canada in 2004, but to discuss the ongoing rift between Americans and Canadians. The article points out some issues associated with this rift.
The rift is generated by the media. If you go back and find her comments in context, you'll discover that she was talking about 4 Americans specifically. Ones she worked with on a NATO committee. The media assumed that 'Americans' therefore meant all citizens of the US. As do many posters here, when they see that word.
My coment is only meant to point out what role the media has played in the rift between us, not to condone her comments.
American @ Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:23 pm
I appreciate that. Did she ever come out to clarify this error, or the media?
American @ Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:31 pm
That's not what most Americans saw. Yes, it needed correction.
DrCaleb @ Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:35 pm
American American:
I appreciate that. Did she ever come out to clarify this error, or the media?
She did, in early interviews, and on her website. (I can't find the quotes any longer) but here is a link: http://www.carolynparrish.parl.gc.ca/10 ... embly.html
As Lily said, but they time the Media beat the subject to death, no one wanted to hear her side. Just like her comments about BMD. She said "We are on the side of the Smart, not the Coalition of the Idiots . . .". CBC had the unedited press conference up for a few hours, but then the media decided that 'Idiots' referred to Americans again, and reporting went something like "Parrish calls Americans 'Idiots' "
I've even heard people say she called Bush a 'moron', when in fact is was the Prime Ministers' aide.
American @ Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:40 pm
Is there a certain speech that you are thinking of?
Streaker @ Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:44 pm
lily lily:
You saw the sound bite your media chose to show you. And you wonder why we get angry when it's continually brought up?
Far worse (IMO) was your president's failure to mention Canada in his long list of those who helped the US in the aftermath of 9/11. Considering he has a staff of writers who vet his every speech, forgive me for believing the omission was deliberate.
Far worse (IMO) was your president's failure to mention Canada in his long list of those who helped the US in the aftermath of 9/11. Considering he has a staff of writers who vet his every speech, forgive me for believing the omission was deliberate.
Without a doubt that was a deliberate omission.
And it was a poorly kept secret that Chrétien was referred to as "Dino" by people in the White House, something which got far less media attention than this whole Parrish thing.
DrCaleb @ Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:54 pm
American American:
Is there a certain speech that you are thinking of?
I believe she means this one:
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/20/g ... ranscript/
"America has no truer friend than Great Britain. I'm so honored the British prime minister has crossed an ocean to show his unity with America.
Thank you for coming, friend. "
Bouboumaster @ Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:33 pm
voici un exemple de manque de civilité, par un américain:
$1:
From: PENATRATOR
To: Bouboumaster
Posted: 2005-10-14, 13:29:26
Subject: Re: Hey Dick head
Fuck you you frog peice of dog shit
To: Bouboumaster
Posted: 2005-10-14, 13:29:26
Subject: Re: Hey Dick head
Fuck you you frog peice of dog shit
de toute beauté, n'est-ce pas? Je l'ai reçu dans mes messages privés.