America The Arrogant Empire?
BigDubUSA @ Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:12 pm
Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:
What about auto-racing? Gonna claim that all for yourselves too? This is a stupid argument. Canada rules in hockey, most professional hockey players are Canadian...the rest is money and marketing. Baseball? How many players are there not born in the USA? A good chunk...again, money and marketing. Auto-racing? Truly a world-wide sport. The USA's biggest contribution of late was letting Tony George destroy CART...he did that through money and marketing.
So yeah, let's talk about sports. Let's talk about what messes sports up. Let's talk about 12 year olds shooting steroids. Let's talk about hockey dads who beat their sons if those sons don't do well. Let's talk about 15 year olds losing partial use of their throwing arms because they pushed too hard in an attempt to get to the big leagues. Let's talk about all the people who didn't get to participate because theyir parents couldn't afford the equipment. Let's talk about the natural atheletes who never got a chance to excel because they couldn't afford personal trainers.
It's a wonderful metaphor for what has happened to the American dream. Doing well became winning at all costs which quickly morphed into getting rich and doing well not being important except as a means to an end.
The American dream used to be about succeeding. That success was not necessarly judged by financial gains. Money is now the sole measurement of success in the US. That attitude is seeping out to the rest of the world. The rest of the world doesn't like it though.
Just to get back to auto racing...when Michael Schumacher, Paul Tracy, Jaques Villeneuve, Michael Andretti, Damon Hill, Dario Franchitti, etc...started measuring their success solely in terms of how much they were being paid we (Canada and Europe) kicked the crap out of them. We knew they were rich, that didn't bother us, but it was not a measure of their success.
Meanwhile I haven't watched a NASCAR race in a decade or an IRL race ever where there wasn't some washed up has-been or somebody's untalented child or brother who was doing terribly but people were cheering for because he had a huge contract. Meanwhile some talented guy without the name is stuck working as a mechanic.
That's what has become of the American dream and it's happened in my lifetime. All that matters now is money, and the way to get money is who you know, not what you. If you want a different metaphor for how the American dream has been co-opted by the greed hogs, all you have to do is look at your imbecilic president and the bastards who prop him up...
So yeah, let's talk about sports. Let's talk about what messes sports up. Let's talk about 12 year olds shooting steroids. Let's talk about hockey dads who beat their sons if those sons don't do well. Let's talk about 15 year olds losing partial use of their throwing arms because they pushed too hard in an attempt to get to the big leagues. Let's talk about all the people who didn't get to participate because theyir parents couldn't afford the equipment. Let's talk about the natural atheletes who never got a chance to excel because they couldn't afford personal trainers.
It's a wonderful metaphor for what has happened to the American dream. Doing well became winning at all costs which quickly morphed into getting rich and doing well not being important except as a means to an end.
The American dream used to be about succeeding. That success was not necessarly judged by financial gains. Money is now the sole measurement of success in the US. That attitude is seeping out to the rest of the world. The rest of the world doesn't like it though.
Just to get back to auto racing...when Michael Schumacher, Paul Tracy, Jaques Villeneuve, Michael Andretti, Damon Hill, Dario Franchitti, etc...started measuring their success solely in terms of how much they were being paid we (Canada and Europe) kicked the crap out of them. We knew they were rich, that didn't bother us, but it was not a measure of their success.
Meanwhile I haven't watched a NASCAR race in a decade or an IRL race ever where there wasn't some washed up has-been or somebody's untalented child or brother who was doing terribly but people were cheering for because he had a huge contract. Meanwhile some talented guy without the name is stuck working as a mechanic.
That's what has become of the American dream and it's happened in my lifetime. All that matters now is money, and the way to get money is who you know, not what you. If you want a different metaphor for how the American dream has been co-opted by the greed hogs, all you have to do is look at your imbecilic president and the bastards who prop him up...
Settle down big Rev!! Count to ten...1, 2, 3,... It's quite obvious that Sports in general is a "money maker", with all kinds of ethnicity. Nobody was arguing that. Nobody was arguing that hockey sucked. And YES, Canada rules hockey! Feel better? I don't know what to tell you about your auto racing "schpill", except that maybe you didn't qualify and you're mad?? Try golf...It's very theraputic!
AmericanPatriot @ Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:15 pm
All we were trying to say is that the U.S never wanted all of your hockey teams...It was the point that the canadian economy never faced up too the fact that there markets couldnt support the product!
America wants you to take Hockey back we dont care or want it!
Rev_Blair @ Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:18 am
No, what you are saying over and over again is that anything you can't buy and rule while turning a tidy profit isn't worth it. What I am saying is that you are personifying what has gone so deeply wrong with your country.
What used to be life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness has been turned into greed, arrogance, and the pursuit of money no matter who you have to step on to get it. Your idols have become the very rich, not because of what they've done but just because they are rich.
wildfire @ Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:33 am
Not all Americans believe that. I still believe in hard work and honor, that goes with the pursuit of happiness. I don't idolize the rich, I don't want to be rich really, all I want is the American dream...a comfortable life, something I worked hard for and can be proud of. However, I am pursuing this dream in Canada so maybe I really shouldn't be posting at all in this topic lol
I don't see the U.S. as an empire....we started out as misfits who stood up for what we believed in and we fought for it and got it. It's that same spirit that made the U.S. a "super-power". I could be worng about it all though, the U.S. may fall one day, but I honestly don't see that happening atleast in my life time or even my kids or grand kids. I don't think the American people would allow that to happen. Just my opinion.
Rev_Blair @ Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:04 am
A lot of Americans still believe in the real American dream, Wildfire. Those running things don't though, neither do people like American Patriot and BigDub who measure everything by monetary worth. Notice how even though I outright said that sports was a metaphor for what has gone wrong, they both chose to cling to the literal? There is no cash value on metaphors.
As for whether the US has become an empire...look around the world. The actions the US has taken over the last fe decades are the actions of an empire
BigDubUSA @ Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:11 pm
Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:
A lot of Americans still believe in the real American dream, Wildfire. Those running things don't though, neither do people like American Patriot and BigDub who measure everything by monetary worth. Notice how even though I outright said that sports was a metaphor for what has gone wrong, they both chose to cling to the literal? There is no cash value on metaphors.
As for whether the US has become an empire...look around the world. The actions the US has taken over the last fe decades are the actions of an empire
As for whether the US has become an empire...look around the world. The actions the US has taken over the last fe decades are the actions of an empire
Rev, If you used any comprehension while reading the posts in here, you would have realized that I am far from measuring everything by monetary worth! I've exposed my income and education. Every post reply after has been a personal attack of how poor and uneducated I am, yet still challenging the average Canadian using this site. We were pointing out a fact about Canadian/U.S. hockey teams. You turned it into a methaphor, and put your own spin on it. Quit being so blind to the mere fatcs. Professional athletes in the U.S. are VERY OVERPAYED! So are actors/actress's. So what are you going to do about it?
Donny_Brasco @ Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:03 pm
BigDubUSA @ Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:10 pm
(lol) I'll give you props for that one Donny...
Rev_Blair @ Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:45 pm
I comprehend plenty, Big Dub. You came to a Canadian site and started trashing Canadians. You did so without knowing any facts or understanding Canadian issues. You have subsequently shown yourself to be ignorant of world issues, US foreign policy, trade issues, monetary and economic issues, and even US domestic policy.
Your arguments boil down to the US having a big military and a large economy and therefore having the right to do as they want. This isn't grade six though. In the real world adults recognise that bullying is wrong and that there are more important things than size of a wallet or gun.
Your mindset is representative of your current leaders and what is wrong with your country. Thankfully other Americans have shown up to demonstrate that you do not represent all of your fellow citizens. You have attacked them too.
I completely lost all respect for you after your churlish and stupid comments regarding HIV/AIDS in Africa though. What you basically did was suggest that genocide by disease was okay because it didn't affect you personally. That pretty much makes you about the lowest form of life ever to evolve. Lower than pond scum.
No go and learn some facts...real ones, not the hateful crap that spews from Billy O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh. I'm an atheist, but I'd also suggest that you read the New Testament and learn a little bit about compassion. Then come back here and attempt to discuss things like an adult.
Vancouvers-David @ Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:10 pm
Big Dub. I have to agree with rev, if you choose to come to a Canadien site that praises our heritage, diversity and nationality and start talking about why your nation is better than canada (only using facts such as who has the bigger military, better economy and "who saved your ass in ww2). What you fail to do is recognize your own countries mistakes as well. Sure canada has faltering health care, Agriculture industry in a slump, bad relations with current american government and a threat to our Sovereignty of the Arctic. While America has high obbeisity, high crime rate, bad gun control, bloody occupation of foreign countries, growing economic and military rivalry between EU and china and threat of terrorism always around and declining world power. I think your country has bigger issues so you should just think of ways to fix your country and leave our country for canadiens
karra @ Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:44 pm
$1:
While America has high obbeisity, high crime rate, bad gun control, bloody occupation of foreign countries, growing economic and military rivalry between EU and china and threat of terrorism always around and declining world power.
You're kiddding right?
I like your sense of humour - you're a funny guy. . . . $1:
I think your country has bigger issues so you should just think of ways to fix your country and leave our country for canadiens
Gawd help us if they do. I say, Gawd help us if they do. . . . .
Robair @ Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:06 pm
Vancouvers-David Vancouvers-David:
While America has high obbeisity, high crime rate, bad gun control, bloody occupation of foreign countries, growing economic and military rivalry between EU and china and threat of terrorism always around and declining world power.
Canada has the higher rate of childhood obesity! (even if our grownups are slightly thinner) Canada also has a higher crime rate. But this includes all crimes. America has a WAY higher rate of violent crimes...
Other than that, I know what you're getting at. I don't think little nub came here to attack Canada, so much as he came here to defend President Shrub and his band of trigger happy idiots. Defending your country is one thing, but defending pre-emptive wars, unilateral action and general thugish behavior by your countries leaders is another.
Twila @ Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:10 am
In the two and a half decades since 1980 the growth in the rate of obesity has accelerated markedly and is increasingly becoming a public health concern. Canada and Europe are somewhat behind the United States, with the rest of the world mixed. Some nations like Egypt and Mexico have also suffered from greatly increasing rates of obesity.
From:
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Obesity
Ralph @ Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:36 am
Nice to see the other guys point of view stated in a thoughtful articulated manner.
Can’t say I agreed with everything in the article BUT it did make me think of it from another angle
GreatBriton @ Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:33 am
Vancouvers-David Vancouvers-David:
Big Dub. I have to agree with rev, if you choose to come to a Canadien site that praises our heritage, diversity and nationality and start talking about why your nation is better than canada (only using facts such as who has the bigger military, better economy and "who saved your ass in ww2). What you fail to do is recognize your own countries mistakes as well. Sure canada has faltering health care, Agriculture industry in a slump, bad relations with current american government and a threat to our Sovereignty of the Arctic. While America has high obbeisity, high crime rate, bad gun control, bloody occupation of foreign countries, growing economic and military rivalry between EU and china and threat of terrorism always around and declining world power. I think your country has bigger issues so you should just think of ways to fix your country and leave our country for canadiens
Military rivalry between China and the EU?
The EU has almost NO military power, and is not ever likely to have. There is no EU military at the moment, although it does have TWO MILLION troops (more than China), except those troops fight for each individual member state, such as Britain or France. There is talk of an EU Rapid Reaction Force, which will come no-where close to being a large military. It will consist only of about 20,000 troops, and mostly used for peackeeping operations. And if Britain, which is the only EU country with any real military power, decides not to join the Rapid Reaction Force, then the Europeans may as well forget it completely.
The United States spends two-and-a-half times as much money on defence as all of the EU member states COMBINED. Some countries (such as Germany) are also REDUCING their military budgets. Britain is the most powerful EU country, and is the only EU country with any proper military power. Germany spends only 1.26% of its GDP on defence, whereas Britain spends 2.8% of its GDP on defence. Also, most EU countries, especially France and Germany, are very peaceful countries, and usually only use their troops on peacekeeping missions rather than fighting in any actual wars.
The EU is never gonna become a superpower, militarily or economically.