Canada too patriotic for senstive Americans
Canadaka @ Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:15 pm
$1:
Canadians should be careful not to appear "boastful" to Americans, who are insecure because of the war in Iraq and admit they are annoyed by northerners showing off the red maple leaf on their luggage when they travel, a recent federal report warns.
In focus groups held this fall in four U.S. cities where the federal government is opening consulates, Americans acknowledged they don't know much about Canadians and have low awareness that the country had not supported the U.S. in the war in Iraq.
"Some participants expressed a certain amount of annoyance at what is perceived as a systematic attempt by Canadians to make the statement that they are not Americans by sporting the maple leaf," said the recently released report.
"This underscores the American sensitivity at feeling rejected by the rest of the world . . . ."
A front-page story in the New York Times this week, which declared that Canada's stance on social issues is opening rifts with the U.S., is unwittingly confirmed with the earlier findings of the report.
Canadian comedian Rick Mercer said at a recent Toronto show that being attached to America is like "being in a pen with a wounded bull," joking that between gay marriage and pot smoking, "it's a wonder there is not a giant deck of cards out there with all our faces on it."
The report says even Americans who blame the Bush administration to some extent for the country's poor relations with the world do not seem to understand why friendly countries and neighbours such as Canada would want to distance themselves from Americans.
For instance, an American from San Diego is quoted saying: "What bugs me about Canadians, if I may, is that they wear that damn patch on their bags, the Canadian flag patch. That way, they differentiate themselves from us."
Another one from Raleigh, North Carolina, notes that Canadians are "very patriotic," freely acknowledging they are from Canada while abroad. "Americans will tend to not even want to tell people because they think they'll get bad vibes from them," added the participant.
The report is based on eight focus groups conducted in September by Millward Brown Goldfarb in San Diego, Raleigh, Denver and Houston where Canadian consulates are in the process of opening.
Pierre Bechard, a spokesman for Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada, said Millward Brown Goldfarb was paid $49,543 for the October report and focus groups.
He said the findings will act as a baseline for the consulates to work to understand how much Americans understand about Canada and how they feel about their relationship with their northern neighbours.
From the findings, federal employees opening the consulates will have their work cut out for them. Most participants said they were "shocked" by a fact sheet about Canada that they were presented during the focus groups.
"A few express some concern over the U.S.'s implied dependence on Canada for energy . . . However, Canada should be careful not to appear "boastful," which could backfire, as Americans do not like to be reminded of any kind of dependence on another country," the report warned.
It says while there is definitely some resentment at Canada's refusal to join the Americans in the war with Iraq, it is currently tempered by "a feeling of uncertainty as to whether the war should have been waged at all.
"Also, unlike France, which is viewed as having forcefully opposed the States, Canada is viewed more as having stayed on sidelines. This suggests that, as long as there are no more harsh and strong criticisms of the U.S. by Canadian officials (there was one mention of the incident where U.S. President George W. Bush was called a "moron" by an aide to Prime Minister Jean Chretien), the American public will not bear a strong grudge against Canada," said the report.
It says most participants felt the current Chretien government has been somewhat hostile but they surmise "that it does not reflect the opinion of the majority of Canadians -- especially Western Canada, which they see as closer to the U.S. in terms of values."
© Copyright 2003 Calgary Herald
In focus groups held this fall in four U.S. cities where the federal government is opening consulates, Americans acknowledged they don't know much about Canadians and have low awareness that the country had not supported the U.S. in the war in Iraq.
"Some participants expressed a certain amount of annoyance at what is perceived as a systematic attempt by Canadians to make the statement that they are not Americans by sporting the maple leaf," said the recently released report.
"This underscores the American sensitivity at feeling rejected by the rest of the world . . . ."
A front-page story in the New York Times this week, which declared that Canada's stance on social issues is opening rifts with the U.S., is unwittingly confirmed with the earlier findings of the report.
Canadian comedian Rick Mercer said at a recent Toronto show that being attached to America is like "being in a pen with a wounded bull," joking that between gay marriage and pot smoking, "it's a wonder there is not a giant deck of cards out there with all our faces on it."
The report says even Americans who blame the Bush administration to some extent for the country's poor relations with the world do not seem to understand why friendly countries and neighbours such as Canada would want to distance themselves from Americans.
For instance, an American from San Diego is quoted saying: "What bugs me about Canadians, if I may, is that they wear that damn patch on their bags, the Canadian flag patch. That way, they differentiate themselves from us."
Another one from Raleigh, North Carolina, notes that Canadians are "very patriotic," freely acknowledging they are from Canada while abroad. "Americans will tend to not even want to tell people because they think they'll get bad vibes from them," added the participant.
The report is based on eight focus groups conducted in September by Millward Brown Goldfarb in San Diego, Raleigh, Denver and Houston where Canadian consulates are in the process of opening.
Pierre Bechard, a spokesman for Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada, said Millward Brown Goldfarb was paid $49,543 for the October report and focus groups.
He said the findings will act as a baseline for the consulates to work to understand how much Americans understand about Canada and how they feel about their relationship with their northern neighbours.
From the findings, federal employees opening the consulates will have their work cut out for them. Most participants said they were "shocked" by a fact sheet about Canada that they were presented during the focus groups.
"A few express some concern over the U.S.'s implied dependence on Canada for energy . . . However, Canada should be careful not to appear "boastful," which could backfire, as Americans do not like to be reminded of any kind of dependence on another country," the report warned.
It says while there is definitely some resentment at Canada's refusal to join the Americans in the war with Iraq, it is currently tempered by "a feeling of uncertainty as to whether the war should have been waged at all.
"Also, unlike France, which is viewed as having forcefully opposed the States, Canada is viewed more as having stayed on sidelines. This suggests that, as long as there are no more harsh and strong criticisms of the U.S. by Canadian officials (there was one mention of the incident where U.S. President George W. Bush was called a "moron" by an aide to Prime Minister Jean Chretien), the American public will not bear a strong grudge against Canada," said the report.
It says most participants felt the current Chretien government has been somewhat hostile but they surmise "that it does not reflect the opinion of the majority of Canadians -- especially Western Canada, which they see as closer to the U.S. in terms of values."
© Copyright 2003 Calgary Herald
Rev_Blair @ Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:38 am
How dare we live in our own country. How dare we state outright that we are proud of our country.
Robair @ Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:43 am
That little article came out awhile ago. I remember reading it and getting a good chuckle. It's funny 'cause it's true!
mike2277 @ Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:03 am
I guess they just can't get their heads around the concept that there are non-Americans in this world who don't want to be American.
Evan @ Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:43 am
I think they are just jealous that we can wear our flag on our backpacks anywhere in the world and still be treated with respect.
I think its another example of how we are expected to bend over backwards to make sure the Americans dont think badly of us. They are allowed to say what they want. I think we should be able to do and say what we want as well. I for one dont give two shits if we offend them by telling the truth.
Hopper @ Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:53 am
Evan Evan:
I think its another example of how we are expected to bend over backwards to make sure the Americans dont think badly of us.
Isn't that just "bend over" Evan?
AbeLincoln @ Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:27 am
Give me a break!! We know you all have a great country, we make our jokes about you the same as you make them about us. I don't think we get as offended by them as you do. We are all sensitive in our own rights about each other and it's all BS. I an American went to France last summer with a group of other Americans and we didn't try to hide who we were, it seems wrong to distance yourself from what you are if you are proud of where you come from be it Canada or the United States!! The article sounds ridiculous to me, who know how many people they interviewed who said they thought it was cool that the canadians wore their maple leafs on their bags. That's why I hate the media (ours and just about everyone elses) they can skew things to make it their own.
drunken_prop @ Fri Feb 20, 2004 12:29 pm
I think it is just that you Americasns have developed such view for themselves that it hard to accept you as "normal" people". Its not a bash against individuals its the whole population that has developed this view for themselves.
TRguy @ Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:24 pm
I remember reading this piece last fall when it was first published. First I laughed and then I thought -what a shame, they spent all this money to fugure out why Americans were canceling their Canadian vacations and they completely missed the point.
The error was that they tried to view the American opinion from a Canadian perspective and they just wasted their money. What they didn't catch on to was what folks were really peeved about. The average American who has always viewed Canada as the friendly neighbor to the north, had gotten a series of shocks that jolted that traditional belief. It started when one of our neighbors tried coming for a New Years eve visit with a car load of explosives in 1999 and continued with a string of eye openers. By the time a group of hockey kids got harrassed, campers got attacked, and folks returned to their cars to find cut tires-well there was a certain amount of trepidation south of the border and vacationers were taking another look at the Grand Canyon instead.
It didn't help that the Toronto Star lead the chorus against America before the dust had even settled at the WTC and while even Le Monde was still proclaiming "we are all Americans". There is a serious problem brewing but it has nothing to do with Canadian patriotic expression.
There is a natural conflict that occurs when two very different nations share a border. Trudeau understood this when he said (paraphrasing a bit) "living next to the US is like a mouse sharing a bed with an elephant. No matter how kind the elephant, one is affected by every twitch and grunt".
Does it make any sense to rant or blame the elephant for being an elephant? It is also worth asking whether the mouse has not found a way to profit nicely from the arrangement since Canada enjoys a healthy #370 billion annual trade surplus.
mike2277 @ Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:57 pm
TRguy TRguy:
Does it make any sense to rant or blame the elephant for being an elephant? It is also worth asking whether the mouse has not found a way to profit nicely from the arrangement since Canada enjoys a healthy #370 billion annual trade surplus.
But one can't blame the mouse for getting nervous when the elephant is feeling amorous.
nonrev @ Fri Feb 20, 2004 3:28 pm
Early in the winter, that article became the subject of a LONG thread in an "RV" site I hang in. There are several thousand members, mostly Americans, many living in big rigs down south. Asl well, there are lots of Canadians down there for the winter.
Over several PAGES of that thread - not ONE person, of either country, could figure out what this report was about. In fact, many RV Resorts down south fly BOTH flags at their entrances. And no-one could recall being treated shabbily, any more than the usual odd grump-ass that we all run into.
Just a bunch of cow-flop, I think.
Rev_Blair @ Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:33 pm
I dunno, nonrev...I work with a guy who collects cowboy memorabilia. He's always bought a lot of stuff out of the states because that's where the cowboy stuff is. He's had two companies refuse to sell to him because he's Canadian...they will not ship here anymore. They used to.
I realise that it isn't most Americans and that the cowboy junk industry is more prone to redneckness than most, but we also turn on the TV or radio and here Bill O'Reilly or Rush "Junkie" Limbaugh spewing outright lies about us on a regular basis. We read extremely anti-Canadian things in US magazines. We get referred to as Soviet Canuckistan and referred to as the Canadian Taliban. The US ambassador tells us how we should run our country and threatens to shut down the border if we don't agree. There is a fair-sized anti-Canada movement is the US and it goes pretty high up in the power structure.
Robair @ Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:24 pm
I was dating a little southern baptist for awhile (THAT was an experience) and one day their preacher used Canada as an example of what happens when a society gets too lax. "Blah blah gay marriage...blah blah legal drugs...blah a nation so weak it could never defend itselt (against who?) bla blah etc." I forget the other "points" he made. Anyway, she was full of questions about Canada after that and I quickly dispelled some of the BS she had heard. Anyway, she now thinks her preacher is an idiot.
BUT, there was an entire congregation listening that were not romanticly involved with a Canadian... One dumass can really spread shit if he's got a pedastal to preach from. Whether it's radio, TV or even church!
othello @ Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:31 pm
I think it is somewhat ironic that there is a thread on this when, in fact, we (Canadians) have a tradition of disdain for "over-the-top" US patriotism.
Mukluk @ Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:19 pm
othello othello:
I think it is somewhat ironic that there is a thread on this when, in fact, we (Canadians) have a tradition of disdain for "over-the-top" US patriotism.
I hear ya 100%.
At the same time, I think it's funny that the article suggests that we suddenly started wearing our flags on our backpacks lol.
Wasn't there a thread about this article already? I feel like I am in groundhog day.
m