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Well, I'm happy that you are able send your girls to a school to learn French, as that is your choice. And If I assume that you also speak French, then they will benefit even more by being able to converse with you in the home.

Isn't it too bad though, that I can't move to Quebec and send my kids to an English school, as would be my choice? Or worse, I can't move there and put up an English sign if I choose without risking going to jail? Worse still, is that English people born there can't put up English signs without risking going to jail.

Tell me again how Canada is a bilingual country when its second most populous province is declared unilingual?

By the way, your little girls wouldn't be going to french immersion in Regina unless the governement wanted everyone to believe that its a bilingual country.

But I guess it's great if you're french.

   

There's nothing wrong with learning ANY language Marlin. Mine are taking German and Spanish at the same time. Even if they never leave the area where they live now...so what?

   

Actually, there's quite a few English speaking schools in Quebec.

   

I know there are, but they've been grandfathered. You can only send your children there if one of the parents was born in Quebec and went to Engilsh school in Quebec. Anyone else moving in, English or otherwise, has to send their kids to French school.

Meanwhile, you can move anywhere you want in the country and send your kids to French school.

Let's face it - Trudeau promised the whole country to Quebec and they got it.

   

Just a quick question Wingnut Is spanish considered a second language in the states? Are you reguired to take it in school? where I went to school In Alberta we had a chioce of french and german. Being german I chose german naturally just thoought I would ask

   

[quote]Meanwhile, you can move anywhere you want in the country and send your kids to French school.

Not exactly correct. There are schools in Regina that are francophone, meaning if the parents do not speak french, the children do not attend.

   

[quote]Just a quick question Wingnut Is spanish considered a second language in the states?

I would hope so. Go and visit Los Angeles to answer your question. Even some malls I went to would announce something in English and then in Spanish.

   

Believe it or not, NO foreign language is required anymore. Math, past high school algebra, is not even required past the tenth grade. It's a shame...but it's exactly what I've been squawking about in this entire thread.

   

In response to Wing's vicious personal attack (he's learned a lot from Rush over the years) I'd like to invite everybody to go to www.icangripe.com and read some of the things he's said defending his government's and his favourite politicians' attempts to bring Christian-based morals into schools and government in general.

Wing is one of those that likes to claim that his country was founded on Christian values and those values shoul be upheld (again, check the Gripe link). Let's look at some of the things his founding fathers had to say on that subject though:

"The United States is in no sense foudned upon the Christian doctrine." -- George Washington

"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It niether picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
--Thomas Jefferson

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My mind is my own church." -- Thomas Paine

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is nor my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma." --Abraham Lincoln

Everything you say and do is based on your ideology, Wing. It's one that has put money ahead of people on a regular basis since I've known you. You do the same with education as you do with health-care, social programs, illegal invasions of sovereign states, and the environment. Go ahead and call me a liar though...you've posted these things publicly.

   

Not at all, but French shouldn't be a federal requirement outside of Quebec is what I'm saying.



In some parts like California, the Southwestern states and probably south Florida as well it seems to be, for example my uncle's kids in public grade school in Vegas actually have half their classes in Spanish, this in the mostly white suburb of Henderson!

Although I'm unsure on whether requiring Spanish in U.S. public schools is a good idea or not at least in the American case it's decided on a state per state basic, in a way that reflects the local demographic and it's not a requirement for a government position there.

   

"...attempts to bring Christian-based morals into schools and government in general. "

Yeah do. Go ahead and look, because I've not said it. I said that if George Bush is a Christian, and he lives the rest of his life based upon those convictions, and that if we elect him, we are being quite stupid if we expect him to abandon those principles just because he might offend someone. I've said that. I still say that. Again, with your half-truths, innuendo, and your agenda, you make things look like they really aren't. I'm used to you though. Others on this site might not be.

This country WAS most definitely founded upon Judeo-Christian principles, despite those quotes you've pulled which are likely similarly half-truths and excerpted well to make your point. You cannot deny the opening words of the Declaration of Independence which states clearly that "...we have been endowed by our creator that all men are created equal." I promise you, the "creator" is not some stud down at the bar who is running around impregnating all of the women in Philadelphia. The first people to arrive upon these shores were here because they didn't approve of the Church of England and were persecuted in England for those beliefs. They came here to worship freely. The Constitution, a document so bastardized by those on the left that it almost defies description and comparison to its original intent, does NOT say that there will be freedom from religion, it states that there will be freedom OF religion...that Congress cannot declare an official state religion. But it's everywhere in our government and has been since day 1. Each senate session opens with a prayer, usually non-denominational. Each session of the House of Representatives is done similarly. When a witness is sworn in through our judicial system, he/she swears to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God. It's on our money "In God We Trust." Having said all of that, I have NEVER ONCE endorsed school prayer. I think it is a nonsensical thing to get upset about by anyone. Prayer is a private matter and can be done at any time...who says it has to be organized and sanctioned? You KNOW that too Blair. You'd rather lie though.

None of this has anything to do with my problems with the public education system. They continue to turn out idiots with meaningless diplomas and people like you think that's just fine. Nothing else I say could indict you the way those words do all by themselves. It cannot be anything else but ideology Blair. You have no kids, so any other concern is none of your damned business is it? Of course it isn't. It has nothing to do with Bush, Reagan, Cheney, Clinton, Carter, Mulroney, Kyoto or anything else on your alleged mind...it has to do with kids getting a chance...a chance you seem all too willing to deny them. If you had any shame at all, you'd hide your disgusting face in it.

   

I lived in Texas Rosco until 1987...in Fort Worth for 5 years and in Houston for 5 years after that. My kids were not forced to take Spanish. It might be different now, but as of July 1987 it wasn't a requirement. The middle schools in Houston didn't even offer it, which was surprising. I have an office in California...when I get a chance I'll ask the guy who runs it. He has a kid in middle school south of San Francisco. Could be that things have changed.

I don't have any problem with teaching kids part of the day in Spanish so they don't fall behind much. But I do think they should have English forced upon them if they intend to stay in the US. One of the things that bothers a lot of people here is the fact that kids of illegal aliens are required to be accepted by local schools and instructed in Spanish. Think about the word "illegal" and then make some sense of that law for me.

   

Oh, I want those kids to have a chance, Wingnut. I want them to have a chance to learn about their right to free speech, I want them to have a chance to learn about the Declaration of Independence, I want them to recognise the quotes of your founding fathers so when you deny those quotes they can also recognise that people like you do not have their best interests at heart. I want them to know enough that they talk back when confronted by those who would take away what they have, then kick them in the teeth just for kicks. I want them to know to pick up a dictionary and look up "capitalism" and "democracy" so they can see that the definitions are not the same. I want them to know that they are entitled not to be arrested, beaten, or killed because they happen to disagree with some millionaires in Washington. I don't just want Americans or the upper class or the dictator of Uznekistan to know those things though...I want everybody to know those things...rich, poor, all races, all religions, all ages.

Your version of education, going strictly by positions you've taken in the time I've known you...things you've posted and policies you've supported... doesn't include those things, Wingnut. The education program you have defined is based on learning by rote, a lack of critical thinking, and learning not to question authority. Those are unhealthy things.

   

I don't care HOW they learn Blair. I just want them to learn. Right now, they aren't. I have no problem with them questioning authority...but I DO want them to RESPECT authority. Ask your mom the difference, she should know. As I said, achieving mediocrity in the public schools would be a vast improvement. Rote, whatever...however knowledge gets put into their young skulls full of mush, let it happen. Knock off the social bullshit and let families (or what's left of them after the left has destroyed so many of them) impart that stuff. Come up with ingenuitive ways of teaching kids...I don't care. It's the bottom line that counts. Quit giving this society high school grads who can't read or add simple numbers. Quit trying to tell me about how kids can practice critical thinking. They can't even practice BASIC thinking. Understand that the primary person of importance in a public school is NOT the administrator or the union steward, it's the CHILD! Get ideology...ALL OF IT...out of the classroom. Teach history. Teach the arts and music. Teach math...especially teach math. Teach English, grammar and diction, speech and literature. Never mind the multiculturalism bullshit. Never mind the nonsense...just give them the tools they need to compete with the rest of the world.

Yep, those are pretty awful things to want Blair, you are right. You're making yourself look even more foolish sir.

   

Hmmm...Ingenious, ingenue, ingenuity, ingenuous...no mention of ingenuitive in the Canadian Oxford though...did ya learn that word from Georgie, Wing?

You are the man who said a nun was right to beat me for reading in English class, Wingnut. You said that I had no right to question her authority. I asked my mother, she said nuns had no right to beat me and I was right to read in English class.

Rote is just memorization, Wingnut. My dog has memorized the hours of 5:30 a.m. (beyond which I'm sleeping in), and 7:30 a.m and p.m. (when she gets her needles). She's a pretty bright dog, but she doesn't think in any human sense of the word. Holstein cows know not only when it's milking time, but know where to go to be milked. If they are in stansions they know which stall is theirs. Holsteins are pretty smart for cows, but cows are brutally stupid, even for animals. In short, rote is not learning. It leads to neither reason nor further learning. Rote is just a convenient way of training people to perform repetitive tasks without asking questions. That's what your standardised testing does.

If you want results, people need to be taught to think for themselves, to reason their way through problems. Being made to memorize facts and figures for a test does not do that. I can still recite Shakespeare that was whacked into me in grade ten. If I want to know what he meant, that does me no good...to know what he meant I have to able to think about it. Knowing how to look things up is more important than memorizing facts and figures because there are new facts and figures all of the time. They don't let you look things up on tests much, do they?

You need multi-culturalism because cultures affect how people approach problems. You need ESL classes so the kids can learn. You need unions because if the pay sucks and the benefits aren't there you will not get good teachers. You need funding to pay for those things. Cutting funding for the places that need those things worst only exacerbates the problem.

By the way, Wing...you said earlier that I had no stake in the education system because I have no children. You know that isn't exactly the case because you know that I nieces and nephews and that I care deeply how they do in school and how they turn out as human beings. I know you know that, or at least should, because we've had this discussion many times before.

So quit the bullshit, little buddy. There is nothing foolish about wanting kids to be able to think, just like there is nothing foolish about pointing out that the further the right has cut funding for education, the worse education has gotten.

   

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