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History in the US is used mainly as a socialization tool. History and the rest of the social studies are usually closely monitered by school boards and parents which, in most cases, means they are presented anywhere from just right to very right of center. By the time these kids get to college and are taught some half way decent history, they are so well socialized from high school, that they start whining about being taught "lies" from "left wing" professors etc. I've got a masters degree in history and have been a janitor most of my life. That, in itself, says a lot.

   

That is why books like Howard Zinns peoples history of the United States exist..

I can't believe you can't find a job with a masters. I mean, couldn't you even be a professors or something? Are you telling people your personal beliefs when you try to get a job?

   

polaco wrote:
I've got a masters degree in history and have been a janitor most of my life.

Move try another country.
How muh did it cost you to get that masters?
Don't wast it cleaning floors .

   

I've always wondered about that. I've done some reading on your founding fathers and their work in putting together the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The country they envisioned, based on the things that they said, bears little resemblance to the modern USA.

When you talk to the average American about them you hear about Washington's cherry tree and Ben Franklin's kite though...not exactly their greatest achievments.

   

Move try another country.
How muh did it cost you to get that masters?
Don't wast it cleaning floors .

I don't want to be too far from my daughters and grandkids (that one sure fits into a right wing rational choice theory framework). I didn't spend anything on my BA or Masters. I got my BA on the GI bill and my MA on an assistantship. I don't clean any longer nor look for a college teaching job because I have a job now I really enjoy with a non-profit working with the developmentally disabled.

   

People always assume that you need a specific education to do specific jobs. I think that's kind of backwards. An education, at least a good education, teaches you how to think and how to interact with others. It teaches you to find your place in life. It sounds to me like you've done that, Polaco.

   

Most times when Yanks try to present me with what they think is history it is an excerpt from a John Wayne film. The ordinary US resident is so filled with lies that there is no sense discussing the past with them.

   

What about when you ask a Canadian? I bet, with all the US television, many people could name more US presidents than Canadian PM's. At the last election, we were discussing it in my Social Studies class. One student said "I wish our system was like the US's, I don't get ours". That is due to the mass influence of US television is it not? Thats what makes me madder than almost anything, when kids say "I wish Canada was part of the states".

   

Thats why we should keep shows like FOX News out of Canada.

   

Exactly what I'm getting at, Fig. Given an offical education and a mis-spent youth I'll pick the mis-spent youth every time. Given a major in business and a guy who took arts and majored in smoking dope, I want the arts guy. Given a history degree and the guy guy who went to economist school, I'm gonna pick the history guy.

We need thought, not number crunchers. We need people who understand what happened and can take a shot at extrapolating why it happened. We do not need robots working from a flawed theory so that other robots get rich. That's just dumb.

Business school is Mick Jagger, art school is Keith Richards. listen to their solo albums and tell me who is better.

   

How many ordinary US residents do you know anyways? It's all who you talk to and where you go. I'm sure I know enough Americans to prove your little line wrong, considering I'm an American. Sounds to me like you are filled with lies yourself, and you come over rather arrogant when you talk about Americans....

   

While I can agree with what you say, I can't agree with Fig because he is generalizing millions of people he doesn't know. I try not to draw conclusions based on the fact that I meet a few people that are of a certain nationality. I'm sure there's Canadians just as ignorant and unthinkful as you will find Americans. Although, the US does have 59 million idiots, there's still alot of smart people. Lession here, please don't generalize!

   

is where I've met a lot of Yanks who don't know their true past, but have been filled up with falsehood. Yes, there are ignorant Canadians, but they are just ignorant, not brainwashed.

Can't I just listen to old Stones albums.

"Please allow me to introduce myself...."

What kind of fools could assassinate the Kennedys and glorify the Bushs?

   

If you ever make it to Winnipeg, I can introduce you to some.

The thing is that anti-intellectualism has become a positive trait in American society. It isn't that you don't have bright, thoughful people, it's that attacking them before they even open their mouths has become fashionable.

Intelligent discourse, original ideas, and critical thought have been replaced by worshipping the stupid. George Bush is president so we are supposed to listen to him unquestioningly. Noam Chomsky is a brilliant scholar with controversial ideas so instead of being intellectually critical and/or supportive of those ideas those in power in the US just scream that Noam is a communist/anarchist and if that doesn't work they brand him with the worst perjorative of them all...liberal intellectual.

That runs all through American culture. Steve Earle is evil for his thoughtful lyrics critical of the status quo. That blonde idiot is brilliant for promoting blind patriotism and drivng 4x4's recklessly.

It's become stylish to be an idiot in your country, Johnny. Canada has developed an uncanny habit of following you. It scares the hell out of me.

   

I've alway found the movie about Altamont to be more truthful than the one about Woodstock.

   

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