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http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/07092006/3/c ... u-s-9.html

Thought this was interesting.

I'd be interested in exploring the specific questions that were asked to come to this result, since it seems a bit odd... even to me... that this many people view the foreign policy of the US as being the root cause of 911.

Perhaps there are still a lot of people who remember the Bush I Incubator hoax that led them into Desert Storm... and feel that the actions on the part of the government in middle east meddling over the last 15 years were responsible for stirring up these bogeymen, who in turn took out their revenge on "the great Satan" Bush.

Or maybe, people are just starting to see Bush as the "bad guy" now more than ever, with the endless lies and deception... and just turning on him.

I guess what goes around, comes around.

   

Most Canadians used to vote Liberal too

   

Yep, and it was current US policy that led to the Munich murders in 1972, the siege of Constantinople, the siege(s) of Vienna, the occupation of the Iberian peninsula, the deaths in the Moscow Opera House, the 1993 WTC bombing, and the death of Anwar Sadat.

If a majority of Canadians polled cannot see common threads in history it isn't our fault.

   

Don't forget, you also wanted/let/were behind Pearl Harbour.

   

Crafty buggers, aren't we?

George W. Bush was also behind that conspiracy. Yep, it's all his fault. Were it not for Bush the Light Brigade would not have been lost in the Crimea.

   

Yeah, Iraq's invasion of Kuwait and subsequent invasion of Saudi Arabia had NOTHING to do with that war - it was just the "incubator hoax" that precipitated that war.

Moron.

   

He also gave the greeks the idea of the Trojan Horse. And he was actually Xerxes in disguise at Thermopolaye.

   

There is more to that story than meets the eye as well Bart, but I fear that if I take this one too far, I'll be wasting my breath... and heading into uncharted waters for you. No offense. I'll just call myself a tin-foil hat wearing CT and spare you the post.

For the record, it was the Incubator Hoax that pushed the American public opinion into favoring US military involvement. Before this was broadcast in front of millions of Americans, the concesus was that the public wasn't in favor of involvement. It was a staged propoganda ploy used in order to tug at the heart strings of the American people and get them all fired up to go kill a few Iraqi's. Giddy-up!

Unfortunately for the American government, a Canadian investigative program uncovered the fraud.

A key event in generating momentum for the first U.S. War on Iraq, "Operation Desert Storm" was a fraudulent report of the murder of Kuwaiti babies by Iraqi soldiers. On October 10, 1990, the U.S. Congressional Human Rights Caucus held a hearing on the subject of Iraqi human rights violations. The centerpiece of the event was the emotional testimony of a 15-year-old Kuwaiti girl, known only by her first name, Nayirah. Her full name was supposedly being kept secrect to protect her from Iraqi reprisals. The girl relayed a shocking story while sobbing.

I volunteered at the al-Addan hospital. While I was there, I saw the Iraqi soldiers come into the hospital with guns, and go into the room where . . . babies were in incubators. They took the babies out of the incubators, took the incubators, and left the babies on the cold floor to die.

The massacre never occurred. The girl was actually the daughter of a Kuwaiti emir, and had been coached by the public relations firm Hill and Knowlton to give persuasive false testimony.

e x c e r p t
title: How PR Sold the War in the Persian Gulf
authors: John Stauber and Sheldon Rampton


...
In fact, the most emotionally moving testimony on October 10 came from a 15-year-old Kuwaiti girl, known only by her first name of Nayirah. According to the Caucus, Nayirah's full name was being kept confidential to prevent Iraqi reprisals against her family in occupied Kuwait. Sobbing, she described what she had seen with her own eyes in a hospital in Kuwait City. Her written testimony was passed out in a media kit prepared by Citizens for a Free Kuwait.
...
Three months passed between Nayirah's testimony and the start of the war. During those months, the story of babies torn from their incubators was repeated over and over again. President Bush told the story. It was recited as fact in Congressional testimony, on TV and radio talk shows, and at the UN Security Council. "Of all the accusations made against the dictator," MacArthur observed, "none had more impact on American public opinion than the one about Iraqi soldiers removing 312 babies from their incubators and leaving them to die on the cold hospital floors of Kuwait City."

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/35 ... q-lie.html

   

"The first victim of war is truth."

There has been propaganda involved in every war and on every side of every war since the dawn of time. That's nothing new.

But that war was started and caused by Iraq and then Iraq compounded the problem by threatening Israel (a threat they later made good on) and Saudi Arabia (another threat they also made good on).

In retrospect it's too bad we didn't let Hussein steamroll the Saudis and their sick and twisted Wahhabist maddrassas that turned out the likes of Osama bin Laden & Co. but there were a lot of factors at play in that situation.

Not the least of which was the legitmacy of the UN.

Had the UN sat on its hands and watched as a member nation, a signatory to the Charter, was wiped away by an aggressive regime then the UN would become as irrelevant as many conservatives maintain it to be. Even China & Russia agreed that the invasion of Kuwait could not stand. Hell, the FRENCH supported that war.

I'm sure the baby incubator was not the only propaganda associated with that war - I was there and I remember seeing tales of derring-do that my unit had supposedly performed and it was news to us. We were really impressed with some of the things that never happened that were attributed to us and bear in mind that this propaganda wasn't public, it was within chain of command!

It took me two years to get rid of a commendation & formal citiation in my jacket for an action that I did not perform and was nowhere near when the event occured. You'd probably be impressed with the pressure from the brass for me to just go along and accept the citation even though it was known to be a fairy tale.

I also took umbrage at getting a second PH for a nasty scorpion sting while in position - not exactly a combat wound but I accepted it after some cajoling to just do so.

The war was the principle reason the USA got involved. Just the same as why we got involved in WW2 - British propaganda to get the USA into that war didn't do nearly as much to involve us as did German U-Boats and Japanese aircraft.

   

An Interesting perspective indeed.

I would commend you on your honesty in dealing with the commendations that you felt undeserving of. I'm sure that many others would act differently.

   

Bush wasn't in power for long before 911 happened, so if your going to blame anyone blame Clinton, do your homework.

   

Yes apparently the memo that the Clinton folks left for Condoleeza entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States" was not clear enough.

   

You forgot 'Old Yeller'

   

Sorry about that 'moron' comment. Seriously. Bad week for me and I'm overly touchy, I suppose.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

The thing with the commendations is that in that war they handed them out like candy. While that looks nice to have lots of fruit salad on one's dress uniform, the vale and meaning of the awards is lost when they are handed out indiscriminately.

I did come away from that fracas with a Navy DSM and I occasionally get from people who think it's just another 'freebie' of that time.

The Silver Star I worked to get rid of was the actual freebie and, IMHO, its presence in my jacket cheapened the value and honor of the medal I actually earned.

Still, a lot of other people accepted the freebies and have been promoted as a result.

For myself, I have the respect of the people who know me. That's worth more than any medal.

   

No worries

I hear what you are saying, and it tells me a lot about your character.

Cheers!

   

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