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I'd like an American/Canadian opinion on this. I'm new here (actually I signed up a while ago but then I got busy...), can't even seem to get my registration to work properly, so I've kind of edited myself a bit since I'm not sure of the rules and all.

Here's the deal though:

As Canadians we tend to say "Americans" when what we really mean is the actions of the government or the mob mentality that rules all large groups of people. Mostly what we mean is the ruling class though, whether they be politicians, CEOs, friends of Pat Buchanan, those who get invited to orgies at the Bush plantation, or whoever.

Since those same people are slowly but surely destroying the US, and are increasingly being opposed by their own citizens, I suggest we call them something other than "Americans."

To differentiate I think we should refer to the ruling class, George II and his ardent supporters, as, "Pig-F**king Greed Hogs." We can refer to the rest of the American citizens, the ones who act out of something other than misbegotten avarice, as, "American Patriots."

If this catches on it should counter-act some of the propaganda coming from those making our world a worse place to live. Imagine the din in the White House if the press of the world starts referring to Noam Chomsky as an American Patriot while calling George II a Pig-F**king Greed-Hog.

I think this is worth persuing.

   

Hmm...as I am a "Canadian/American" I'd like to say this...the perfect politician is yet to be found...anywhere. I believe that no matter where you are, you should have SOME sort of loyalty (or patriotism if you prefer) to your country and its leaders. Yes, I could sit here and slam America for hours, about everything from the health care system to George himself. But I won't...ever. Just as I would never slam Canada or Jean...ever. After living in both places, I can firmly state that North America is the best place in the world. For all their faults (and yes, there are many for both) Canada and the U.S. are the only 2 places in the world where we can live the "good life" that we do. I will always be Canadian and love my country and people, but, once my dual citizenship is completed (I would never give up my Canadian citizenship), I will also proudly stand to say the pledge of allegiance to the American flag. How could I not?

   

I agree with every word you said.... both countries has faults...so we should all feel lucky that we live in North America in general. When I finish my studies and apply for dual citizenship...I will sing "Oh Canada" just like I have the US anthem. A part of me will always remain american, and if many canadians see it as a bad thing then so be it, I disagree and see it as a part of who I am.

   

is the part that gets teary eyed when she hears her anthem and even the "courtesy of the red, white and blue" song...lol I am sure many canadians do the same when they hear their anthem....but however, not many other countries can say the same. I think that is what seperates our countries from the others, national pride. That is why North America kicks ass...lol

   

Reverend Blair, I think you are onto something that is definetly worth persuing.

Although, I'd like for a title something that I can say in front of my 11yr old daughter.lol

North America is not the only "free" country. Many people forget that the world is large and the countries suffering at the moment are countries that have had deals with the US or have a different political ideology. And most definetly they are countries where the majority of the population is not white.

But remember that people who accuse Americans of these atrocities are either misinformed idiots or they are really refering the the government/corporate agenda.

   

I think there are some great things about America , but also some terrible contradictions regarding our past and present . Over the last several years it seems we have been sliding ever quicker into the abyss , as we move further away from the promise and principles this nation was founded upon . America finds itself the most powerful nation on earth in history , and an economic powerhouse as well . Some would say , and I agree , that we are not using our power wisely , and will ultimately end up making more enemies than friends .

It goes without saying that there are serious problems in the U.S. regarding our violent culture , lack of basic health care for millions , poverty , etc. But what disturbs me the most is the direction the society is going in . An ever - shortening attention span , and millions too tied up in pursuing the increasingly elusive "american dream " means that few americans are likely to stand back and address the important issues . For my part , I prefer the way Canadians go about things - in their foreign policy , as well as how they deal with each other . As One Canadian said - "We care about our Joe lunch boxes " . Of course I realize that Canada isn't perfect , and no country ever has been , nor likely will be in the future . My personal opinion is that Canada just seems to embrace the kinds of ideals of decency and justice that used to be attributed to the United States . Somehow we seem to have lost our way as Americans , and few of us seem to care anymore - like lemmings going over a cliff .

I've posted alot of things on this site that are critical of the U.S. , and not much that is positive . I find it strange myself , because I have always considered myself to be an optimist at the core . Yet I can't help thinking about the " big picture " in terms of this country's future , and I'm quite disturbed by what I see happening , as well as our future prospects . As I have said in other posts , the best thing for Canada is to learn from America's mistakes and chart their own course and lead by example . If a country's greatness is to be measured only by it's military and economic power , then there probably isn't much hope for humanity's future . Well anyway , now it's time for some chips & salsa and a few shots O' that lip smakin ' tequila ! --- Cheers !

   

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

   

Oh yeah , before I hit the Te KILL YA , a few words ABOOT patriotism . Sorry , but waving around ol' glory around or hearing the national anthem just does not do too much for me . I do get choked up when I see all the crosses at my local VA cemetary , as well as all the ones in the American cemetaries in France . I think about all the Americans ripped apart on the beaches , in the skies , on the seas , and on the battlefields of World War Two . I wonder , if we could raise them from the dead - what would they think about the country today ? Would they be proud to have died for what we have become as a nation ? Likewise , if we could raise all the dead whose names are etched on a certain black wall in washington , what might they say ? - especially about Iraq ? I also get choked up about a certain CIA agent who beat his head against the wall in futile attempts warning against impending danger from terrorists . He quit the CIA in frustration , and ended up taking the last job he would ever have as head of security at the world trade center - he went to work on the morning of 9/11/01 and never came home .

As for Canadian patriotism , I don't even know all the words to the Canadian national anthem . And as for the flag , when I see the red maple leaf , I think of concepts like decency , compromise , and kindness . Most other flags I look at just indicate a place on the globe where a certain group of people have staked a claim on a certain piece of ground as belonging to them . No doubt Canadians did their part in wars past , and like America , it's civilian population has been spared from the horrors experienced by cities across the oceans . And yet they seem reluctant to engage in further conflicts without asking questions first , and seem to prefer peace keeping to fighting - some would say that kind of attitude is unpatriotic and weak . America believes in fighting to free oppressed people , so long as they are the right color and/or live in a location that we believe is in it's " interests " .

   

Maybe I should have expanded that to be more inclusive. Canada has its fair share of Pig-F**king Greed-Hogs too. It was worst under Mulroney and I suspect it will be extremely evident by the time Martin is done with us too. I have mixed feelings about our present Canadian leader...I think Chretien means well but falls into doing what he thinks is politically expedient too easily. He has also done his share of being greedy.

Bad leadership is a big problem. In the case of the US I think it is a much bigger problem though. Being the world's only super-power; both militarily and, for the time being, economically; comes with responsibility to more than the electorate at home. I have seen no indication of the Bush regime taking responsibility for anything, including the well-being of average American people.

It is up to the electorate to choose and guide the leadership though. While I agree that citizens owe some loyalty to their countries, I don't believe that leading a country automatically means that you command loyalty. When a leader goes against the the wishes of the majority of citizens (last I checked there was large opposition among US citizens to a war in Iraq without the consent of the UN), undercuts the rights of the citizens for his own purposes, favours corporate interests over those of the people, and just generally does not attempt to address the concerns of voters, that leader should command neither loyalty or support.

Supporting your country is fine, but supporting a leader you do not agree with or policies you question when no answers are forth-coming undermines democracy and the human right of free speech.

   

A Canadian pen pal of mine who lives in Edmonton said once that Canadians are too reserved ( polite ? ) to raise a ruckus over things that might bother them . If she is right , then it isn't likely that Canada's situation will improve , and eventually it's society will start going in the direction that America's is going in . I agree that the problems of being a superpower ( actually hyperpower is more accurate ) , differentiate Canada and the U.S. But I still believe Canada can play a major role on the world stage , and still maintain it's uniqueness . Alot can be said also for having an informed and compassionate society that's willing to take a stand when necessary against government stupidity . As I have said in other posts - this is one area where I believe Canada has an advantage over the U.S. After all , if the society goes down the toliet - what's left ?

   

perhaps both countries should hold a referendum

   

Well, lets just hold hands for a start.

   

Just my 2 cents, when I hear Oh Canada, i get emotional, the lump in the throat, the tears welling up in my eyes. I dont think there's any thing wrong with that. When Canada won the gold in Salt Lake City, I'll tell you right now I was with friends watching the game. And when it was over, i was standing there crying, from joy, patriotism. I dont think there is anything wrong with those kinds of feelings. thats the way I was raised. To be loving of ones country and heritage. I dont know, maybe i'm too old school, but there was a time when that was ok.... times have changed I guess...

   

Well, lets just hold hands for a start. [/quote]

I think that's part of the problem. The money guys have been holding hands for a long time. The rest of us start complaining about the money guys and end up fighting over who has the better country. Maybe we should hold hands and find a way to make the Pig-F**king Greed-Hogs argue.

   

I think TWILA had a good idea in creating a country or territory were we could send all the assholes , and I thought maybe we could expand on the idea a bit by adding a couple of other countries .

ASSHOLIA : This is where all the ignorant , self - centered , and otherwise mean people will live . They will be in a perpetual state of civil war over who gets to be the top ass , and the country continues to be considered a work in progress . This society consists of people who don't care about their neighbors, are prone to road rage , and take their cell phones with them into movie theaters . Their economy is based on the principle of everyman for himself , and occassionaly this allows a select few to climb to the top , at the expense of their fellow assholians . These elite few will in turn likely emmigrate to the next country listed below : BUSHLAND .

BUSHLAND : This society is characterized by nearly all of the wealth being controlled by the upper 10% of the population . The sole function of the other 90% is to create wealth at any costs for the select few . This nation is deeply religious , with the 10% claiming they are God's favorite country , and they have the military forces to back up their belief . Bushland's economy is based heavily on military spending , allowing the elites of the society to continue to prosper so long as there are enemies to be created . Bushland's greatest fear is that the assholians are developing " insults of mass destruction " and since Bushlanders despise criticism , they will likely launch a preemptive war against the assholians . The upside to this conflict is that it will generate considerable income for the 10% , while effectively distracting the lower 90% from their problems .

CRAYTEEANN : This country can best be described as laid back , and reluctant to take strong stands on anything . People in this nation speak in a language that has never been heard before , and is sometimes very difficult to understand . Occassionally they accept immigrants from Bushland and Assholia , but prefer their society to reflect the middle of these two extreme nations . During times of tension between Bushland and Assholia , Crayteeann acts as mediator between the two and encourages them to settle their differences at the U.N. . This nation is known for it's cunning ability to maintain a relatively high standard of living and a balanced budget despite wasteful spending . Due to it's social priorities , this country will never be able to dominate the world militarily , and for this reason it is often criticized by Bushlanders .

Anybody else wanna create a customized country ?

   

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