Canada Kicks Ass
Panic over Gas Prices?

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herbie @ Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:16 pm

With gas almost at $1.50L Canadians are pissed off and rightly so. But the level of discourse in the US is almost a nationwide panic at $4.
They're blaming the Democrats, blaming the Republicans, blaming the environmentalists. The same guys ranting for State's rights are demanding they drill ANWAR and offshore, and cancel any state planes for carbon taxes.
Why?
There's a marked difference in the attitude between Canadians and Americans on this subject.

   



Pseudonym @ Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:59 am

America is a nation founded upon HATING taxes. Is it any wonder we're freaking out now about a 40% increase in the price of gas over a matter of months?

   



bootlegga @ Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:33 am

Pseudonym Pseudonym:
America is a nation founded upon HATING taxes. Is it any wonder we're freaking out now about a 40% increase in the price of gas over a matter of months?


Taxes have nothing to do with the spike in gas prices though. The spike is mostly due to market priniciples (low supply + high demand = high prices).

If people stopped buying Hummers and Yukons and bought Focus' or Neons instead, the problem wouldn't be as bad as it is. That would lower demand and therefore prices. Americans really have no one to blame but themseleves for rising gas prices.

   



Pseudonym @ Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:42 am

I agree completely, I was just trying to provide some context for the basis of the mindset of the average American. Also, America is blaming itself, as was indicated in the first post.

You might also want to note that more gas efficient vehicles are becoming rapidly more popular in the states. The backlash from the price increase will hopefully get a good fuel price drop when the market stabilizes.

   



N_Fiddledog @ Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:28 am

I saw an interesting thing on the news last night. It was interesting, because I'd read this...

Seven Ways McCain Can Use Energy to Beat Obama

Basically they suggested he back away from the idea of green at any cost, and stress energy independance. What the listener is supposed to hear there is "cheaper gas".

The thing I saw on the news was a little squib from a current McCain speech, and he appeared to be going in that direction.

   



mtbr @ Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:42 am

bootlegga bootlegga:

Taxes have nothing to do with the spike in gas prices though. The spike is mostly due to market priniciples (low supply + high demand = high prices).

If people stopped buying Hummers and Yukons and bought Focus' or Neons instead, the problem wouldn't be as bad as it is. That would lower demand and therefore prices. Americans really have no one to blame but themseleves for rising gas prices.


Actually there is no shortage and that has been repeated over and over from more than one producer. Speculators are controlling the price not the oil companies and not the friends of GW :lol: or for Kenmore the Cons. :P
Many people have said oil should still be in the 80 dollar range.

   



Rationalist @ Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:42 am

If people will make their voting choice based on which candidate promises lower fuel prices, it would be a bad day for democracy. It seems with this whole campaign in the US, populist rhetoric is really on the rise.

   



bootlegga @ Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:03 pm

mtbr mtbr:
bootlegga bootlegga:

Taxes have nothing to do with the spike in gas prices though. The spike is mostly due to market priniciples (low supply + high demand = high prices).

If people stopped buying Hummers and Yukons and bought Focus' or Neons instead, the problem wouldn't be as bad as it is. That would lower demand and therefore prices. Americans really have no one to blame but themseleves for rising gas prices.


Actually there is no shortage and that has been repeated over and over from more than one producer. Speculators are controlling the price not the oil companies and not the friends of GW :lol: or for Kenmore the Cons. :P
Many people have said oil should still be in the 80 dollar range.


It's not speculators so much as the fact that the world uses about 70 million barrels a day and the current production sits barely over that. You're right, there is no real shortage, but the oil surplus is very tight, so a fire at a refinery or oil tanker running aground make a huge difference. Remember January? Several fires/shutdowns at refineries moved prices substantially higher because they created regional shortages. Imagine another Hurricane Katrina shutting down US refineries for a couple of weeks...

When production gets to 71 million barrels a day (or more) than prices will drop. Right now, if there is a tiny hiccup, there isn't enough for everyone. The Saudis said they will add 200,000 barrels a day shortly. That will help, as will a slowdown in the US (who use around 28 million barrels a day). If their usuage drops even 5%, then there would be a large surplus again, dropping prices.

   



Benoit @ Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:15 pm

Molly Espey examined 101 different studies and found that in the short-run (defined as 1 year or less), the average price-elasticity of demand for gasoline is -0.26. That is, a 10% hike in the price of gasoline lowers quantity demanded by 2.6%. In the long-run (defined as longer than 1 year), the price elasticity of demand is -0.58; a 10% hike in gasoline causes quantity demanded to decline by 5.8% in the long run.

reference

   



dog77_1999 @ Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:00 pm

herbie herbie:
With gas almost at $1.50L Canadians are pissed off and rightly so. But the level of discourse in the US is almost a nationwide panic at $4.
They're blaming the Democrats, blaming the Republicans, blaming the environmentalists. The same guys ranting for State's rights are demanding they drill ANWAR and offshore, and cancel any state planes for carbon taxes.
Why?
There's a marked difference in the attitude between Canadians and Americans on this subject.


Well, Americans are right. Everyone is to blame here(including ourselves).

ANWAR is federal land. Alaska wants to drill, but the federal government won't allow it. This is why so many state rights people are pissed.

Carbon taxes, taxes in general, are not liked. Consider most people don't think global warming is an important issue, it makes the blood boil.

Another issue is that America is so dependent of foreign sources of oil. The idea of suddenly the gas stations running empty is not a pretty sight. Though I think it might be neccessary for everyone to wake up and use what we have now and conserve.

   



Benoit @ Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:21 pm

Takes a look at the FBI's video of the "Corrupt Bastards Club." Cash and favors flowed between an Alaska-based oil services company and an Alaska Republican good-old-boy network that stretched all the way to DC.

http://technorati.com/videos/youtube.co ... IZ7nEf55pM

   



Pseudonym @ Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:09 pm

Alaska's Republican Senators are some of the worst if not the worst pork-barrel spending senators in the US.

   



Benoit @ Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:18 pm

Pseudonym Pseudonym:
Alaska's Republican Senators are some of the worst if not the worst pork-barrel spending senators in the US.


So don't be naive to expect the price of gas to decrease by drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR).

   



CanAm1 @ Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:22 pm

Rationalist Rationalist:
If people will make their voting choice based on which candidate promises lower fuel prices, it would be a bad day for democracy. It seems with this whole campaign in the US, populist rhetoric is really on the rise.

My dilema is that John McCain is the least Liberal of the Democrats, there really is no Ronald Regan to vote for, not even a conservative. The best thing that could happen to the US is for McCain to get elected and that is a weak arguement for a true conservative to have to make.
Obama while nice seems to me to be too nice. He seems contrived, he seems phony. Not counting the fact that he has no experience at all. I really think he would crumble in a time of important decision making like when and who to go to war with, and be a giant talker on everything. There is certainly a time for talking and a time for action. I don't think he will ever be an action taker. I think he will be a Jimmy Carter or a Neville Chamberlain when it comes to being faced with a tough decision. I hope I am wrong if he does get elected.
I really don't think the American People are ready for him to be president.

   



Benoit @ Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:30 pm

CanAm1 CanAm1:
Rationalist Rationalist:
If people will make their voting choice based on which candidate promises lower fuel prices, it would be a bad day for democracy. It seems with this whole campaign in the US, populist rhetoric is really on the rise.

My dilema is that John McCain is the least Liberal of the Democrats, there really is no Ronald Regan to vote for, not even a conservative. The best thing that could happen to the US is for McCain to get elected and that is a weak arguement for a true conservative to have to make.
Obama while nice seems to me to be too nice. He seems contrived, he seems phony. Not counting the fact that he has no experience at all. I really think he would crumble in a time of important decision making like when and who to go to war with, and be a giant talker on everything. There is certainly a time for talking and a time for action. I don't think he will ever be an action taker. I think he will be a Jimmy Carter or a Neville Chamberlain when it comes to being faced with a tough decision. I hope I am wrong if he does get elected.
I really don't think the American People are ready for him to be president.


Diplomacy can be as effective to stabilize oil price as warring.

   



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