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"peaceful", my ASS.

When somebody shows up in a hard-hat with a bandana over his face, he's not out shooting golf. Natives included.

Protesting/dissention is a serious right, but it doesnt mean attacking people, even if theyre cops. It doesnt mean tearing down fencing, smashing windows, wrecking cars, throwing objects and hurting innocent workers in the area.

Screw them. Dont play, if you dont want to pay.


But dont hand me that crap, Rosco, its no different in the States. I was home sick for the entire "Battle in Seattle". Watched every minute of it; same thing.
And if you think speech is controlled here, try standing in Times Square and spouting off Al Qaeda crap or something similar. I give you about 15 seconds, before you get a five-fingered makeover.

Bullshit!:roll:

   

Hey, I've worn a hard-hat with a bandana over my face. Of course I was just trying not to Hanta Virus or killed by a falling 2x4, but I still fit the description.

If you think that freedom of speech is so dandy in the US you should do some reading up on the recent protests in Miami, Rosco. The place was a virtual police state, people who were protesting by praying were shot with rubber bullets, closed meetings in church basements were raided by police in full riot gear.

I would say that fences like fucking debacle that Chretien had erected in Quebec deserve to be torn down, Nonrev. I don't like the property damage and so on, but that fence was there for two reasons...to keep the protestors from being heard, and to show the protestors who was in charge. By erecting that fence, property damage was very likely increased.

   

According to http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News ... 45,00.html

freedom of the press per country.

1 (tied) Finland, Iceland, The Netherlands and Norway (0.50 points)

5 (tied) Denmark, Trinidad and Tobago (1.00)

7 Belgium (1.17)

8 Germany (1.33)

9 Sweden (1.50)

10 Canada (1.83)

11 Latvia (2.25)

12 (tied) Czech Republic, Estonia, Slovakia, Switzerland (2.50)

16 Austria (2.75)

17 (tied) Ireland, Lithuania, New Zealand (2.83)

20 Slovenia (3.00)

26 France (4.17)

27 United Kingdom (4.25

31 United States (American territory) (6.00)

44 (tied) Israel (Israeli territory), Japan (8.00)

49 South Korea (9.17)

50 Australia (9.25)

53 Italy (9.75)

56 Hong-Kong (11.00)

71 Brazil (16.75)

74 Mexico (17.67)

79 Kenya (18.50)

103 Nigeria (31.50)

104 Malaysia (32.00)

108 Algeria (33.00)

110 Egypt, Indonesia (34.25)

115 Turkey (35.00)

122 United Arab Emirates, Jordan (37.00)

124 Iraq (37.50)

128 India, Pakistan (39.00)

130 Palestinian Authority (39.25)

134 Afghanistan (40.17)

135 United States of America (in Iraq) (41.00)

141 Zimbabwe (45.50)


146 Israel (Occupied Territories) (49.00)

147 Colombia (49.17)

148 Russia (49.50)

149 Tunisia (50.83)

150 Nepal (51.50)

151 Belarus (52.00)

152 Oman (57.75)

153 Libya (60.00)

154 Uzbekistan (61.50)

155 Syria (67.50)

156 Saudi Arabia (71.50)

157 Bhutan (77.33)

158 Turkmenistan (82.83)

159 Vietnam (89.17)

160 Iran (89.33)

161 China (91.25)

162 Eritrea (91.50)

163 Laos (94.83)

164 Myanmar (formerly Burma) (95.50)

165 Cuba (97.83)

166 North Korea (99.50)

   

Thats all very interesting, but what, exactly, do the scores mean?

   

That's points against, Gangrenous. You can find a fuller explanation here: http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=8248

Interestingly, Canada dropped from fifth last year to tenth this year. Domestically the US dropped from 17th to 35th.

In 2002 Iraq rated 130th. In 2003 the US (in Iraq) rated 135th.

Think maybe the security measures are getting out of hand?

   

Thank you. That puts things into a very good perspective, and is quite interesting. Everyone realizes that the government has a part in media propaganda, but I think this helps to prove the point.

   

Yes the RCMP here are fascists. But so are US cops. Bush isn't even a legitimate president and if he got his way things would be a lot worse. The two countries are moving in opposite directions. Russia just lost the dubious distinction of having the most people in jail to the US. Is that a big enough indicator for you?

   

The APEC demonstrations weren't really violent until the RCMP provoked things, the only security detail really getting nervous in the face of the shouting and sign waving was Suharto's personal guards, who at one point had an RCMP detachment prepared to fire apon them as they seemed to be on the verge of firing on the protesters.

People were leaving when asked to by the RCMP only to be hit seconds later by "Sgt Pepper" and his cohorts, so much for freedom of expression.

Seattle was a totally different situation and involved a lot more property damage and other mayhem as you would expect from a full blown riot.

What private citizens allow and what government and private institutions allow are two different things, although you're right, selling that line in Times Square wouldn't be a good idea.

Twila,

I'd really like to see the criteria that organization used to come to its findings, in particular if they took the non mainstream media into account.

   

I haven't had time to look up the exact criteria, Rosco, but Reporters Without Borders has a well-earned reputation for being even-handed. Some of the criteria mentioned in their original press release included things like reporters in jail, reporters killed, official censorship etc. Look them up on the Internet...a very interesting organisation.

   

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