Canada's new fleet for the 21st century?

If we can't get those destroyers/frigates, how about a dozen or two of these bad boys...they can exceed 100 km/h, cruise in very shallow water and are heavily armed. They would be awesome for patrolling our coastlines.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/skjold/

No, but we could do a joint program with these guys and buy them in bulk.

You mean like BC ferries? An order for hydrofoil PT boats would be something our shipyards could handle, however a joint program with Norway would be useful as the ships would have do be able to handle the climates of both countries. I would not recommended such a program for capitol ships however like the ones suggested at the start of this thread.

Fair is fair Arctic. I doubt they will rely on Canada for protection, if they did then they are truly stupid.

I actually disagree. Queerbec has some genuine concerns. BC and Alberta can both make an excellent case for going it alone. Just because you disagree with the spirit of someone's belief does not automatically render it or them "stupid".

You folks are all assuming we will have folks to man these ships. With the way the navy is treating folks these days there won't be enough hairy bags to man a 30 foot sloop let alone a new fleet of multi-purpose ships.

Engineering types are getting tired of 40% of the maintenace budget going to those 4 sewer tubes for the bubble heads, 20% of the maintenance budget going to those jetty queens the 280 class destroyers, 20 % going to the worn out tanker and the 6 MCDVs and the last 20% going the actual ships that do something in this navy, the Halifax class frigates ( East coast numbers, cannot speak for my west coast brethern ).

The lower deckers are getting mighty tired of 3 ringers coming in from Ottawa for the 2 year stint at sea with thier familys back in Ottawa ( the wife has great job dont ya know, course Master Seaman's wives and husbands don't get that consideration ). They get here and all they are concerned with is getting enough gold stars to take to the admiral so they can get promoted and posted back the centre of the known universe and away from the pesants that actually make the navy work. They get the gold stars by volunteering for every stupid little job tha comes down the pike, I mean who cares if the guy who has been posted to the ship for 8 years is starting to forget what his wife and kids look like because he has spent a total of 179 days at home since the summer of 2003? These guys have two years to make thier mark and to hell with what it does to the crew that has been there through 4 COs with the same plan.

The navy always was about getting the snotters promoted but now it is ONLY about getting them their next ring. Where once an Able Seaman was responsible to each department to get the ship clean at the end of the day, now a Master Seaman and Petty Officer 2nd have to supervise techs making 55k a year running a broom and a mop.

Just an FYI I am not a new to the navy, I have 15 years at this now and if there was not a pension waiting for me 5 years from now I would tell the mob where to head in. Well I have told them where to head in but it is like talking to a brick wall. The wardroom ( ie officers ) are convinced that moral is high, there is no moral any more. They are mistaking our professionalism for moral.

I'm sorry to hear about that, Wullu. I agree that the navy has defenatley been hit the hardest in terms of budget and financial shortfalls, and all that you said doesn't surprise me.

I think we need a multi-purpose blue-sea naval force:

-3 AD and C&C Destroyers (New destroyers, replace Iroquois)
-12 multipurpose frigates (Halifax, but we will have to look at replacing these in about 10 years)
-3 oil replen ships (JSS, on tab)
-1 amphibious ship to supply army's heavy equipment (on tab also, but when I don't know)
-at least 3 subs (in working order, possibly nuclear?)
-MCDVs for training
-a handful of coastal defence vessels for protecting coastline (Arctic, too)

3 MOGs
1 MOG = 1 sub?, 1 Destroyer, 1 JSS, and 2-3 Frigates

With these resources we can protect our coastline at home and generate 3 independent Maritime Operating Groups, and maybe have one at high-readiness status through a managed training readiness system. This way we would be able to contribute to the naval part of the SCTF without overburdening the Navy. Then again, this is all probably only likely to happen in a Conservative government...

As for hydrofoils, I'm not sure what we should use for coastal defence, I honestly don't know enough about the subject. But I do suspect hydrofoils loose their usefullness when operating in open oceans...

Thoughts?

Nate

I like the balance you have there. First off as far as hydrofoils? They would be the perfect for coastal work ( much better than the flat bottomed MCDVs we stuck the reserves with ). This would also free up the frigates from doing fisheries patrols and saving the hulls for real blue water work ( and incidently giving the crews on them some time at home for a change, for myself it is 480 days and change away since Nov 03 ).

But once again where do you get the crews for these ships? The heart and soul of every trade in the navy is the Leading Seaman. These are the folks who are fully trained in thier jobs and do the vast majority of the real work in the navy. In my trade ( a small one ) we are supposed to have 39 LS on the east coast, we have 9.......... There are supposed to be 2 LS of my trade on each ship on the coast. Speaking as a PO2 I have not had a LS on my ship in over two years. This means that my Master Seaman and I have had to do their work in addition to our own. This is rampant through out all trades on the ships and it wears down the folks. When folks do get a break with a shore posting you spend most of your time ashore looking over your shoulder for that temporary duty message sending you back to see to back fill for someone who just went OW!!

Sailors used to love going to sea. Command used to understand that folks that are enjoying theirselves will keep coming back for more. We were always considered to be amoung the best, even with out of date gear. It was also well known that Canadian sailors knew how to have fun. Now we have amoungest the best gear and no one has fun anymore. Why? Charlie Oscar and his yes men are terrified to do anything that might affect their annual evaluation adversely. Their was a time when Chiefs would tell command what the real state of moral. Not anymore. I have seen chiefs practically bow and scrape to Sub-Lieutenants let alone Commanders ( and we all know that Subbies are like slinkies, no real purpose but both fun to push down stairs....

. To put it bluntly the whole safety net for lower deckers is gone. The kids see that is gone and follow it back to civie street. Then we get to spend another 4 years training someone back to the state the LS was when they left.