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WE believe...

WE accept ...

WE accept...

WE believe...

I love those "WE"

and there is no life like it...

   

You make some good points SprCForr, but as you stated yourself the role of long dutration fighting is not part of the new "Three Block War". Our role has changed dramatically in the past 10 years. In part we are not the fighting soldiers that we shoudl be, but a police force to be used by NATO or the UN. Our forces in general have lost the ability to fight a war. Everything we do now is Peacekeeping. As a technician I've never been in the "F" ech, but I've followed close behind in the "A" ech. My training in the 10 years past has changed to the point where I don't get to go to the field and "play army man". I was always an "army man" first and technician second. That has changed to being a technician and only a technician.

   

We may not be prepared to fight the last War across the forests and fields of Europe or in the jungle of SW Asia, but we are prepared to take it to the next battlefield.

The war part of the "Three Block War" doesn't require large armoured formations, artillery and a massive infantry push. That's old tactics for fighting wars we planned to fight 30 years ago. Small, medium weight reactive forces (much like we have and are trying to build in Canada) will win the 'first block'. Where the CF is short is in the manpower and equipment, not the doctrine and tactics. We just don't have enough of the essential building blocks; soldiers and kit, to do it right.

The skills for fighting a war are still there. Don't be blinded by the fact that the face of war has changed. Look at that monster exercise that just summed up in Wainwright -that was how you fight the 'Three Block War'.



We haven't been peacekeeping in over a decade. Even the most recent examples that may be argued to fit the definition of peacekeeping are a stretch. Unless there is a recognised treaty or armistice in place, what you are doing is peace making or peace enforcing. By rights, this is 'war' if you stand by Gen Krulak's "Three Block War" concept. We are fighting wars out there. Undeclared and low intensity, but wars nonetheless.



Now more than ever this is not true. You could have made a case in WWII when the techs and bin rats were 'in the rear with the gear', but now there is no such thing as rear. You go out on an MRT call, who escorts you? In my experience in Kabul, if you were lucky maybe someone could spare a heavy to escort your Bison, otherwise you were on your own. There are no friendly lines to stay behind (unless you count the camp walls).

Just because you haven't been out digging to stage three in a few years doesn't make you any less a soldier. More than ever technicians need to get thier shit together as soldiers first and tradesmen second. You can only rely on yourself for protection, the guys at the pointy end are already out of camp doing pointy end stuff. If your chain of command isn't reinforcing this then they aren't doing you any favours.

   

I agree with you 100%. That what I was trying to get across. What I was trying to say was that as a technician we have let things slide to the point where a lot of us are not able to jump in that Bison and go out on a MRT call without really putting either themselves or someone else in danger. Depending on what unit we are attached to really makes a difference for us. I've done my time with infantry, amoured, and artillery, and each one is different in the amount of training and to what level we would be at. I've done my whole career with first line units, but what about those people that have been with "base units" for most if not all of their career. When I did my PLQ there were people that hadn't seen the C-7 since basic!!! I think the CF on a whole has become to "down sized". The government doesn't spend enough money on defense to really keep us at the level we need to be at.

   

How True Sapper

   

Almost done shopping!

To carry-on my thoughts from the last post...

You're correct in that the face of war has changed. We do have to deal with the reality of manpower shortages, our limited ability to deploy those forces and that is forcing us to think smaller, but I think we could be hurting ourselves in the long run by letting the large formal battle skills whither away. A case in point. The last Bde Ex in WATC (since you mentioned it). How smooth was it from the staff side? How much ground had to be re-covered because some of the corporate knowledge from the 80's and earlier was lost? Is there a Commander left that has actual experience fighting/exercising 2 complete Brigade Groups? The experience of dealing with larger formations can be translated to smaller (i.e. Brigade to Battle Group) from the staff side but it doesn't translate up effectively enough. Could the staff/Comds hack a multi-Brigade operation in a mid level conflict? I whole heartedly agree that the old high intensity NATO Central Front style is gone (good) but I feel we could be losing crucial skills if we keep our focus too low. Does this latest version of Brigade FTX address this adequately?

I have complete faith in the abilty of the troops and the leadership to adapt, but I don't want them to be sold short on the skill sets outside of low-level conflict. Having the numbers or not doesn't excuse us from practicing/training outside of the Three Block War concept. It may be the reality now, but is it in the future?

Canada is headed for a larger presence in 'stan, so are we truly ready for it?

   

Interesting. Over the weekend I found out that I had passed my PT and the USMC will take me back as an active reserve. I'll be gone in January for two weeks to Quantico and then it'll be weekend warrior time after that at Pendleton to train boots on how to reach out and touch someone.

Funny thing was the doctor who did my screening said that the Corps was trying to get 'old guys' back into the fold to teach the kids things that have been lost in the last few years.

Truth be told, I have a lot of catching up to do.

   

You have alot to teach too. I'll trade some Alberta winter for some of theirs, if anyone is interested. Ask around for me would ya?

Good Luck!

Cheers,

Spr

   

Could the staff/Comds hack a multi-Brigade operation in a mid level conflict?

The past prooved us that even when we did train in Multi-Brigade Exercise and/or Multi-National exercise. We did not have the capabilities or the willingness to deploy in mid level conflict.

http://www.seanmmaloney.com/i0029.html

In this case(The Link), We had all the experience possible, both at staff and troop level. But we did not have the equipment or support (Military Community or Government).

Today it is a little bit the opposite way. We have the equipment and the support of the Military Community and the Government, but we lack the knowledge or experience. Did we trade one for another?

Surely, we are going another way, will that bring us back to where we use to be (The Army is known to swing back to were it was). Probably. But it will take another 10 years to come back at the level of readiness we were in the mid and late 80's. We had 2 out of our 4 brigade at operational level at all time. CFE and CTAM.

The new food chain is looking at bringing back at least one of the brigade at Op level readiness.

Are we on a good track, i really think so. The 90's killed us. Be WE will get back, Now that we get rid of most of the Sleeper Generation.

   

Good points all. Your right that we are seriously lacking the staff knowledge to move and fight higher than the combat team level. Even managing the battle groups we have deployed to low intensity conflicts ahs proven something of a challenge to CF leaders.

Which brings me back to my original point - the army is on it's way to being broken beyond repair. What the hell happened between Henault's "We must take at least 5 years 'tactical pause' and rebuild" and Hillier's "Let's go kick Afghani ass"?

Did someone rebuild the Army while I was in the 'Stan?

We need time to recruit, train and re-equip. During this time, the senior leaders can hit the books and get the doctrine down so that next time we try to field a Brigade on ex it doesn't take an entire Bn to run the behind the scenes operaitons.

   

Interesting to read how my brethern in the too cute to shoot suits are seeing things. I see alot of the same problems and trends in the navy. It seems to me that the problem starts in basic. The kids come from basic and seem to have the "system" figured out when they hit the ground here in Halifax.

I remember one Monday morning when a new bunch of OS showed up at the Engineering school to do their in-routines. We sent them off on their merry way. By noon they were all back but one. We asked where he was. Still at the base hospital. We figured ok, no problem, medical records get misplaced all the time. 1430 and junior shows back up with FIVE chits!! No extended standing, sitting. No Marching. No drill. You get the idea. This kid had been here for less than 24 hours! The first time I went to the base hospital ( excluding medicals ) was after 12 years when I broke my leg. That earned me a whole week off

I know we need to recruit folks from where we get em, but we still need to recruit the right folks. Perfect example from my own world. Anyone who knows modern electronics knows that it ain't exactly intuitive, you have to be able to your head around some pretty complex ideas and concepts. What is the education requirement for a tech in the navy? Grade 10. I know I am the first one to say my sig line, but there are limits. We wind up testing each kid as we get em and then putting the ones with weak math skills in pre-academic courses to get them up to speed.

I am sure the Army and Air Force have similar problems (I know the Air Force does for a fact, they keep stealing our trained techs )

   

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