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okay, then 4%

   

At the forefront of this debate or struggle if you will is the ship building industry. There is a great debate (surrounding troop transport) over whether or not our industry can continue to build ships for the Canadian Navy into the future. This to me is treason... pure and simple. The domestic shipbuilding industry has always put out a good product. Canadian engineers and craftsman can produce cutting edge stuff when they are provided the means to do so. So why is our government considering a purchase of US built troop transports? Well, they present it as a cost cutting measure. Ok, I guess that’s fair except for one thing. All the money our government pays out to an American firm will go directly into the US economy. I'm not an economist but it doesn't take a dummy to recognise that even if we pay twice as much to a domestic firm to have them design and build new ships, the money will flow into our economy. All the money will enrich our society. Beyond ships, this sort of cost cutting myopic crap happens all the time. We buy from foreign countries all the time. Why? If Canada is going to be around forever, why are we scrambling to buy weapons from other countries? Why aren't we tapping into our own talented engineering and manufacturing community to create an industry to arm ourselves for tomorrow? South Africa, Russia, Brazil, Israel and so many other countries see the value of a home-grown military concept. Why don't we? The money would flow back into our economy and create jobs which will enrich our society. This stuff goes beyond fielding an army. How much more would we be able to spend if that 900 billion was actually flowing back into our economy instead of out of it?

   

They could make more cats

   

I think it's the size of transport needed and the size the Canadian yards are capable of building that is the issue. But there is nothing wrong with self-sufficency in my book.

   

I'd like to know where the $9billion is going to begin with...that's a lot of change. Does the army have a advertising division that Chretien funnelled most of that dough into? hehe.

Make the armed forces a force to be reckoned with. Don't try to build a machine that can put 100,000 people on the ground to invade a nation - stick to high end specialty teams and have a way to deploy them.

Whether that means more spend, or re-organization of current spend, I don't know...but I would guess the former.

m

   

Buy 4 C17's

Build two amphib assault ships capable of deploying and supporting either an infantry battalion or a disaster relief effort.

Get a helicopter carrier with decent choppers and real air support (Harriers or the like).

Equip a regt of cavalry with enough MBT's to support an inf battalion( M1 or the like). We don't need hundreds of tanks. 20 will do. A C17 can move a MBT.

Reform the Airborne.

Buy decent subs capable of patrolling the arctic and bin those crappy ex RN subs.

Stop relying on the Militia and the Reserve to plug the gaps and properly fund the Regs.

Make the CF a proud service again. Joint Command but three distinct but intergrated fighting Services.

Maybe even bring back a few "Royal" monikers, Esprit-de-Corps actually means something to Service people.

Sod the French and the petty language rules that inhibit promotion of able unilingual officers.

Make me CDS.

   

Frankly, I don't think we should spend a thing. Not on WMDs and Armoured Weapons ETC. Despite the fact that almost every country looks at the Canadian Millitary and laughs, this is my view: Despite the fact we don't have many WMDs, and our weapons (Except the C7 and the Coyote Armoured Recon Vhecial) aren't first class, the individual soldier of the Canadian (Particularily Peace Keepers) are the best in the world, and I don't give a rats ass what the US says about their Marines and such. So, why spend money? Why don't we just keep to our quiet, important role as the Peace Keepers of the 3rd world? We don't need a millitary anyway, since the US is our only natural land border is with the US, and they can't go to war with us because so many people have relatives in Canada ETC that there would be massive protests. And if any country invaded Canada the same would happen. Furthermore, the US wouldn't use their WMDs, because they couldn't risk damaging the precious Canadian rescources ETC, and the Canadian Infantry could outclass the US anyday.

To sum it all up:Having a millitary next to the US is like having a snowblower when both your nieghbors have one!

   

no

   

You better have a 4X4 if you live beside me because I’m not doing your driveway


And Canada should spend the money the liberals keep giving away. The guys in the AF need equipment a little newer then handmedowns from WW11

   

i sometimes think the way Neo-CanadianBacon does.

I have pretty mixed feelings on this topics, i could go either way, i guess you could say "flip-flop" lol

   

So lets build bigger shipyards and stop being so small minded.

A good example that comes to mind is Hyundai. They took on the Jubail Industrial Harbor Project back in the 70's. The company had no prior experience or proper facilities to accomplish a task like that. They took on this task nonetheless, which was a tremendous risk and it paid off in spades.

Canada and Canadian industry just needs a little shove to do great things.

   

hrmm

Ask Mr Martini what happened to the shipyards and oh a little shipline he moved offshore.

When the PM takes his holdings offshore, why would any smart investor build one here.

   

I think at this point in time, the Canadian Military is somewhat like a brick of Swiss Cheese. We have a lot of holes to fill (transports, air defense, direct and indirect fire support). When those holes are filled, our military will perform way Gouda than they have in the past. (joke sucks ass, I know )

Seriously, I completely agree with Mukluk. We need a military that would seriously bloody anyone who would have the audacity to invade our North American paradise and a military that can provide support to our friends, allies. Peacekeeping is always important of course.

   

Good luck getting that ^^^^ but one can dream

We will need an invasion before they spend the right amount; after all we have a rental army just south of us.

   

Why on Earth do we have to think in terms of investment, dividends and capital returns?

This isn't the usual cost benefit scenario. How do you place a price tag on our security?

The shipyards could operate as a crown corp or as a navy shipyard. In time, after the politicians have been sufficiently wined and dined (bribed), the yards would be sold off at a ridiculous loss at the publics expense because the government isn't in the business of building ships ...

But, the upside is that the public would have a modest but advanced navy to protect its tender shores.

   

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