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What are we doing.

In the 80"s we were seen as top class soldier's. Every country in the world talked about us. Now every body talk's about our equipments. When do we hear about our soldier's.

Any comment.

   

IMHO, We were a hot topic because we had good soldiers and crap equipment. Our kit is getting better but we still have the same great troops. I suspect that when we start tearing into other militaries on Ex/deployments, etc it'll swing back around. Everyone is still in the "awe" stage of our new kit acquisitions.

   

I agee, but the troops are getting spoiled.

But as i remembered, our troops could get anything done with nothing. Today, they are getting the best equipment available and complain about it all the time.

They can't do this because of this. It is not safe to do this because we don't have this.

I even saw something in the Journal the Quebec last week, that the moral of the Troop in Kabul went down (5 Brigade Battle Group) because the CF refused to send "Poutine" there. Quote from the Battle Group Chief Cook. What the F....

PPCLI had rations for 6 month in Kandahar. Vandoos in Sarajevo had 1 ration a day until the airlift started.

What about poutine and Mcdonald in war time.

   

I think they lack the perspective that training for high intensity ops gives. I'm not saying they couldn't do it, just that they haven't. Loss of manpower, and all the operational deployments etc have got everyones focus on those pressing items. Is the CF inadvertantly "pampering" to keep the retention rate up?

I'm curious to know what percentage of the Arms trades were serving prior to the collapse of the USSR and the Germanies re-uniting. Since manoeuvre warfare NATO Central Front style prevented everything but the basics being available, I think we learned to not expect too much. Being given the makings for a crew-served breakfast was a good day. Is it time to bring back extended length high intensity warfare exercises? Can the CF devote the time and expense to do it?

   

I think you mean, will the "government and voters" devote or allocate the expense. Doubt it. I wish it were the other way around.

   

Me too. Those exercises could be a real kick in the ass, but they certainly made sure your generic soldier skills were up to scratch.

   

Those ex's were frigin brutal but you grew to love em and strived to kick as....or at least I did..

No sleep ...deprevation training at its best
No food ....funny that pol was readily available but mre's weren't
Not enough food powder

   

How about hauling your own waste on winter warfare instead of having blue rockets at the end of every leg.

   

In my opinion,

That type of training made the soldier's back in those days.
There was nothing back then that could have made the soldiers love the army, exept the army itself. minimum equipment, minimum pay, etc. A lot of hard and painfull work. It did build a character in anybody.

You had to love it.

And there was no life like it.

With that new training facility in wainwright, those major exercise could come back on a yearly basis. Did you guys heard anything about those. Are we gonna Run RV'S type of ex again?

   

I can't say I agree that those extended field deployments were the best use of resources possible. My first one was RV 89. We were in the field for about 7 weeks, but we spent a huge chunk of it sitting around in camp doing track maitenence, work up drills, and drinking at the canteen.

I went to the CAR in 1990. There we took part in fewer long term excercises, but we went out into the training area almost every week for a couple of days. As a result, there was a minimum of fucking around with pre-post deployment shit, etc. We didn't need to set up admin areas, or base camps etc. We just hit the training area, did some patrols, and came back Thursday afternoon in time for Friday morning maitenence, Friday afternoon sports, and the weekend. It was easier on families, and I think we got more training value for the buck.

   

I agree with you,

But you guys had the base for it, Try to exercise in Base like Valcartier for major unit. They tried it, it did not work very well. The brigade had to move to Gagetown to run proper large training. And if they wanted to see what went on in the rest of the forces, they had to joined up with other brigade in RV'S.

For sure it was a lot of dogfucking, but it was worth it.

But i heard, that all equipment will be set up permently in Wainwright now, so that they will only move pers. But i can't confirm. If yes, that should cut on the crap.

   

Good point. I'll even take you one further. It's hard to run large scale Brigade+ level training a couple days a week.

But then again, what are the odds that the CF are ever going to deploy a whole brigade into a combat theatre in the foreseeable future? I'm not saying we shouldn't, I'm just saying it doesn't seem like a commitment this country is willing to make.

The largest unit this country seems interested in deploying these days seems to be a Battalion Battle Group. Maybe small unit Battalion level operations are what we should be concentrating on these days.

   

Ahh, the memories of meals from those metal hayboxes...

   

You're right,

It nearly happenned during the first gulf war "Operation Broadsword", but it got shit can, after the planification phase. Missed opportunities (The Book).

The new CDS, as a very sensitive view about that. He want in the future to combine all Weapon System directly under the command of the Bde Comd, like in Germany in the 70"s (Anti Tank Company). Ripping some of the units from there assets and make them as units (Company or Squadron Size). They already started a fiew years back, with pionner (Pltn) and mortar(Pltn). It's not a new concept, but it show us maybe that the Bde Battle Group concept could be reintroduce and made more flexible.

We will probably see sooner or later.

   

Yeah, I remember. I was in Petawawa helping to wogs get their kit ready for deployment. That was when I started making other plans.



I'm as sarcastic and critical of the CF as they come. But I have to admit, this new CDS is a different breed from what the CF has grown used to.

If anyone can sort the Canadian military out, it's Hillier. He's the first CDS I've ever seen who appears to be soldier first and politician second.

   

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