Canada Kicks Ass
The new F35 JSF

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Thematic-Device @ Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:41 pm

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:
Not enough Nato weaponry, not enough range, and not enough manueverability.


Im having trouble finding the range of a Eurofighter, but are you sure its beyond 2200 km on internal fuel? (2600 to beat the Carrier variant) and they're in the same thrust class (w/ afterburner).

   



Stormrider @ Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:03 pm

combat radius 1,390 kilometers 865 MI / 750 NMI
source

Depends on the mission
Combat Radius
ground attack, lo-lo-lo : 601 km
ground attack, hi-lo-hi : 1389 km
air defence with 3hr CAP : 185 km
air defence with 10-min loiter : 1389 km
source 2

   



Arctic_Menace @ Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:24 pm

$1:
If I had my drothers, I'd pick the F-111. The Auzzies just sold off theirs and we could have gotten them for a song, but we missed the deal because the Liberals were too busy in CYA mode and not in the shopping mode.



Great, just what this military needs, more used equipment. :roll:

$1:
It's a stealth, close in air support / multi-role fighter, with US radars and NATO weaponry. What more does canada need? Unless you're referring to Canadian Mind's arguements for a more air-superiority oriented fighter.



What it needs are more weapons pylons, to better suit the whole multi-role capability. As far as I know, it only has two, not exactly ideal, is it?

   



Arctic_Menace @ Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 pm

I think the Eurofighter would be a good buy.....But that's just me. :wink:

   



Thematic-Device @ Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:09 pm

Stormrider Stormrider:
combat radius 1,390 kilometers 865 MI / 750 NMI
source

Depends on the mission
Combat Radius
ground attack, lo-lo-lo : 601 km
ground attack, hi-lo-hi : 1389 km
air defence with 3hr CAP : 185 km
air defence with 10-min loiter : 1389 km
source 2


I've seen that too, but I only have the statistics on the flat range, while combat radius varies not only on the missions, but also on the tactics / calculations.

   



Thematic-Device @ Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:12 pm

Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
What it needs are more weapons pylons, to better suit the whole multi-role capability. As far as I know, it only has two, not exactly ideal, is it?


Four, and internal weapons, So it could theoretically carry 6 cruise missiles, and 4 air to air missiles in a single sortie, which is very respectable amount of ordinance.

   



ridenrain @ Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:31 am

Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
But it doesn't really ideally suit Canada, that's the problem at hand...


The only realistic reson that the JSF would " not suit" Canadian functions is the single engine. This has long been the bone of contention on fighters, even though engine reliability has gone up every year. One could argue that the single engine of the JSF is better than the two of the CF18.

As for the lack of NATO weapons. You'd think that the Brits, Aus, Turks etc, would be more vocal if this was a real problem.

   



Canadian_Mind @ Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:55 am

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
What it needs are more weapons pylons, to better suit the whole multi-role capability. As far as I know, it only has two, not exactly ideal, is it?


Four, and internal weapons, So it could theoretically carry 6 cruise missiles, and 4 air to air missiles in a single sortie, which is very respectable amount of ordinance.


Look at the stats again TD. Its four external "hardpoints," meaning that it could carry wither 6 cruise missiles or 6 air-air missiles plus two of the respective counterpart in a respective sortie. Hopefully if we choose to buy this aircraft one of the idiots upstairs will plan to have an extra pair of hardpoints set up somewhere. Both hardpoints are wing hardpoints, meaning all weapons are supported by pylons.

   



Canadian_Mind @ Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:02 am

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:
Stormrider Stormrider:
combat radius 1,390 kilometers 865 MI / 750 NMI
source

Depends on the mission
Combat Radius
ground attack, lo-lo-lo : 601 km
ground attack, hi-lo-hi : 1389 km
air defence with 3hr CAP : 185 km
air defence with 10-min loiter : 1389 km
source 2


I've seen that too, but I only have the statistics on the flat range, while combat radius varies not only on the missions, but also on the tactics / calculations.



combat radius is the furthest distance an aricraft could go for any particular mission. So if the eurofighter was sent of with a pair of Jdams to blow up a truck or something somewhere (I really dunno what Jdams are, just know they attack ground) it theoretically could go 1389KM, then go the same distance back. So total range of the aircraft on internal fuel is probrably around 2800-3000 total. I also know that the eurofighter can carry massive 2000 Gallon tanks under each wing and the fusalage, wonder what an extra 6000 Gallons of fuel works out to in range.

Edit - Didn't know the JSF's range was up around 2200km. How do they fit all the fuel?

also, our current F-18's range is 3200km.

   



-Mario- @ Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:47 am

JDAMs are Smart Bombs

Joint Direct Attack Munition

You tell those bombs the Lat and Long and thats it. No more Laser Tagging. Those suckers have an INS combined with a GPS guiding system. INS is a couple Gyros (Could be Laser Gyros) and a computer. The GPS is there as a redundant system.

   



Numure @ Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:39 am

F-111? I hope you arnt serious.

Anyways, my pick is the JSF. For obvious reasons. Cheap, effective, and top of the line (If you ignore the F-22, wich we should, don't need air-to-air). Don't need does fancy vertical liftoff ones. We should also, buy em in bulk. At least a few 100. How many operational CF-18 do we have now? Very few.. 30-50?

   



-Mario- @ Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:44 am

Numure Numure:
F-111? I hope you arnt serious.

Anyways, my pick is the JSF. For obvious reasons. Cheap, effective, and top of the line (If you ignore the F-22, wich we should, don't need air-to-air). Don't need does fancy vertical liftoff ones. We should also, buy em in bulk. At least a few 100. How many operational CF-18 do we have now? Very few.. 30-50?


88

   



Numure @ Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:45 am

All operational?

   



-Mario- @ Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:51 am

Canada purchased 138. SOme were sold and other not upgraded. So far Canada is upgrading and keeping 98 Operational.

   



Thematic-Device @ Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:45 am

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:
Look at the stats again TD. Its four external "hardpoints," meaning that it could carry wither 6 cruise missiles or 6 air-air missiles plus two of the respective counterpart in a respective sortie. Hopefully if we choose to buy this aircraft one of the idiots upstairs will plan to have an extra pair of hardpoints set up somewhere. Both hardpoints are wing hardpoints, meaning all weapons are supported by pylons.


fully loaded for the JSF carrier variant it'd be

4x JASSM
2X JSOW
2X AMRAAM
2X ASRAAM

with a 1300 km combat radius

vs

the EF-2000s

2x storm shadow
2x Alarm
4x AMRAAM
2x ASRAAM
2x 1500lb fuel pod
1x 1000lb fuel pod

with a 1389km radius

So it is a pretty much a toss up as far as delivering ordinance a good distance. Of course, if you got the A variant instead of the carrier variant, you'd be limited to around a 1,100 km radius, but you could buy twice as many as you could with the EF-2000.

   



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