Canadian sovereignty?
I am of firm belief that this issue has been consistently ignored, politically, as an issue that affects Canadians, therefore undermining the Canadian democratic institution and ultimately, the Canadian people's right to choose their own destiny. For a issue as important as sovereignty public debate is necessary and all views must be taken into account in forming an educated choice in voting for the future.
Europian counterparts have been allowed to choose through a referendum and has been allowed to socially debate the issue, more in some and less in others. In France, where the constituion has been pulled apart and analyzed nationally with help and cooperation of the media. France can be considered a model in its application of democracy.
Canadian politicians have long abused the Canadian people, in a strong but passive and sometimes complacent Canada. Canadian politicians have distanced themselves from the people but have placed more importance in themselves with the practices of corruption and self fullfillment. This undermines Canada and its future. My firm belief is that Canada`s political system has a desperate need for reform, reevaluation, and rectification. Canada cannot continue move forward in a treaty as important as Deep Integration as a respectable stable and sovereign country until these ills have been rectified and independance more firmly established.
I vote to stall the process of deeper integration, review and rectify and ensure that deeper integration works for Canada as an independant nation, if and when the time is right for Canada. For Canadian politicians, NO cause can be as important as Canada and its sovereignty cannot be sacrificed for the short term gain, or Canada will SINK.
Take a look at the top of this page. There is a red/white ribbon campaign that CKA is part of with several other websites, specifically on this issue.
NO! to deep integration! NO! to NAFTA!
I agree with you, this issue is being ignored .
Canadian governments have squandered our military forces since ever since Trudeau. Without a military or coast guard to patrol these un-populated areas, we cannot maintain sovereignty.
Right now, we need the US navy to tell us when rusty old trawlers filled with refugees show up on the west coast, because we have no effective navy, coastguard, or even lighthouse keepers.
Pretending that it's a problem is not going to work here.
Scape @ Wed May 11, 2005 3:26 pm
Oh, it is a problem and yes it is being glossed over and not given time in the media or discussed in town halls simply because Canadians do not see such issues as important. As long as they have a full stomach (the economy keeps humming along) then such issues as the sponsorship scandal or health care will push such issues to the way side. Clearly a majority of Canadians want Canada to remain independent but it is soft support that runs deep so on the surface it looks docile and this is dangerous as it very well may wait too late like a frog that is boiled. This is a crisis and it is made worse by a lack of credible political options for Canadians to choose from. We are gingerly treading a path of a patchwork future. Our business community is working on a muddle-through mentality and few political parties show much leadership or vision - or even have enough high-quality talent to try to do so.
While so distracted on keeping food on the table, Canadians may lose the whole country in the process by being subject to hostile takeovers. However, trade barriers in export markets have a damaging impact on key industrial sectors so what to do? Clearly NAFTA is a botched job and it is better to be free of it now and get back to returning control of Canada back to Canadians instead of having everything not nailed down sold on us. We can supplement out recuperation with sales to Asia and the EU.
BeaverBill BeaverBill:
I am of firm belief that this issue has been consistently ignored, politically, as an issue that affects Canadians, therefore undermining the Canadian democratic institution and ultimately, the Canadian people's right to choose their own destiny. For a issue as important as sovereignty public debate is necessary and all views must be taken into account in forming an educated choice in voting for the future.
Europian counterparts have been allowed to choose through a referendum and has been allowed to socially debate the issue, more in some and less in others. In France, where the constituion has been pulled apart and analyzed nationally with help and cooperation of the media. France can be considered a model in its application of democracy.
Canadian politicians have long abused the Canadian people, in a strong but passive and sometimes complacent Canada. Canadian politicians have distanced themselves from the people but have placed more importance in themselves with the practices of corruption and self fullfillment. This undermines Canada and its future. My firm belief is that Canada`s political system has a desperate need for reform, reevaluation, and rectification. Canada cannot continue move forward in a treaty as important as Deep Integration as a respectable stable and sovereign country until these ills have been rectified and independance more firmly established.
I vote to stall the process of deeper integration, review and rectify and ensure that deeper integration works for Canada as an independant nation, if and when the time is right for Canada. For Canadian politicians, NO cause can be as important as Canada and its sovereignty cannot be sacrificed for the short term gain, or Canada will SINK.
I may disagree with you on the other thread, but I'm with you here.
Deep Integration means Canada not only loses sovereignty to the USA but to Mexico courtesy of NAFTA.
Imagine Canadian immigration policies being dictated by corrupt liberal American Democrats and corrupt...everyone...in Mexico.
And then US media will invade and take over Canadian media.
Sorry, none of this would be a good deal for Canada.
The thing missing in Canada is a sense of nationalism that I don't think I've ever seen outside of this site.
Nationalism is considered crass in Canada and unless you folks make waving the Maple Leaf a tad more fashionable it'll be reduced to a fond memory.
Tman1 @ Wed May 11, 2005 4:46 pm
Scape wrote:
$1:
While so distracted on keeping food on the table, Canadians may lose the whole country in the process by being subject to hostile takeovers. However, trade barriers in export markets have a damaging impact on key industrial sectors so what to do? Clearly NAFTA is a botched job and it is better to be free of it now and get back to returning control of Canada back to Canadians instead of having everything not nailed down sold on us. We can supplement out recuperation with sales to Asia and the EU.
Couldnt have said it better myself.

NAFTA is a shame and its all thanks to Mr.Chinny Chin Mulroney and his cozy up with Americans attitude. Well, were currently paying the price with our businesses taken over and things being less Canadian *cough* TIM HORTENS *cough.
Tman1 Tman1:
NAFTA is a shame
There's all you needed to say right there.
Tman - nice avatar picture btw.
Tman1 @ Wed May 11, 2005 6:00 pm
Thank you. 
Scape @ Wed May 11, 2005 6:03 pm
Yea, it rocks!
QBC @ Wed May 11, 2005 6:19 pm
PeterFinn PeterFinn:
The thing missing in Canada is a sense of nationalism that I don't think I've ever seen outside of this site.
Nationalism is considered crass in Canada and unless you folks make waving the Maple Leaf a tad more fashionable it'll be reduced to a fond memory.
I'm not sure I agree with this totally. It's true that Canadians don't flag wave like you do in the states, but Canadians are a little more understated than people in the US. I know from my point of view, every time I hear someone talking about Canada breaking up or joining the States I litterally shudder. Not that I'm really all that anti American or anything, it's just that Canada in my nation and I'd fight to keep it a soverign nation. This is not a rare feeling in Canada by any means. We may not shout it out, but it's the way most Canadians feel I think.
$1:
it's just that Canada in my nation and I'd fight to keep it a soverign nation. This is not a rare feeling in Canada by any means. We may not shout it out, but it's the way most Canadians feel I think
Canada has hit international news today.
It might be time to start shouting, cause they'll ignore you otherwise. Harper's got an upper hand and deeper integration is part of his campaign.
"SQUEEKY WHEEL GETS THE OIL."
http://www.canadiancontent.net/commtr/article_746.html
$1:
Canadian Sovereignty, America-Style
By Ryan McGreal
Wednesday March 2, 2005
US Ambassador to Canada Paul Cellucci has warned Canadians that the United States will have no qualms about launching interceptor missiles into Canadian airspace as part of its Ballistic Missile Defense System (BMDS), claiming that Canada "[gave] up its sovereignty" [1] when it decided not to participate in the program. Cellucci is referring to Canada's right to decide whether the United States is allowed to launch a missile interceptor over Canadian airspace.
Prime Minister Martin, showing a rare display of integrity after over a year of flirting with missile defence, responded to Cellucci's chide about Canada giving up its sovereignty by stating that Canada "would expect and insist on being consulted on any intrusion into our space." [2]
By contrast, opposition Conservative Party leader Stephen Harper made a typically servile, grovelling response, bewailing the fact that Canada continues to defy Washington. "This will really poison any ability [Martin] has to move Canada-U.S. relations forward. What it means in practical terms is that we'll just be invisible in Washington." [3]
Of course, the idea that America would ever respect Canada's - or any other nation's - sovereignty is absurd. As the world's predominant superpower, America does what it wants, where it wants, basing its decisions entirely on how the government decides its interests can best be served.
Foreign Minister Pierre Pettigrew asserted this essential fact when he asked, rhetorically, "Would it have been otherwise?" if Canada had decided to take what Cellucci called "its seat at the table". [4]
Even if Canada was helping to finance BMDS, the ultimate decision on when and where to launch missiles would fall to the United States. It is foolish to believe the US government would ever relinquish control over its own defences.
This is what makes Cellucci's remarks so galling. He came right out and told Canada that it can retain its "sovereignty" only to the extent that it does what America wants it to do. Or as Linda McQuaig cleverly observes, "It's only rape if you resist." [5]
It's a foregone conclusion that the Stephen Harpers of the Canadian establishment will attach themselves to Cellucci's line of reasoning and use it as an excuse to blame Martin for damaging relations with America, but this decision, like Prime Minister Jean Chretien's decision to stay out of the Iraq invasion, will look better and better as time goes on.
The Associated Press wrote of Martin's decision that "he bowed to pressures to protect his weak minority government and follow the majority of Canadians who have condemned the missile defense program as a rehash of Ronald Reagan's Star Wars." [6] (Aside: since when is following the majority of your citizens "bow[ing] to pressures"? I thought that was called "democracy".)
Paul Martin and the Liberal Party cabinet have generally supported joining the BMDS, and Martin promised during his last election campaign to improve relations with the United States after they were strained by Canada's decision not to join the US-led invasion of Iraq. Martin bowed out only because, in a multi-party minority government, he is more constrained by what Canadians actually want than he wouuld be with a majority.
This must be frustrating to Cellucci, who hoped that Canada would be willing to fulfill his vision of an "independent but complementary" ally - i.e. willing to serve America's interests in areas where "there's a lot of resentment around the world towards the United States." [7] As Cellucci explained, "To the extent that Canada has a foreign policy that's independent but complementary to the U.S. and is perceived to be the best friend of the U.S. - that will enhance the role of Canada in the world." [8]
Not likely. I can only assume Cellucci actually hopes Canada's "independent" support for US policies will enhance the role of the United States in the world. If anything, Canada itself is more likely to suffer from being perceived as an American lapdog than America is likely to benefit from whatever moral prestige attaches to Canada's endorsement of its policies.
This class attitude from the American admin. have been unchanged for
years. I remember hearing about this class of attitude towards the Canadian gov't and its people in the mid 80's (and I'm positive it didn't start just because I began to notice it) and it hasn't changed, other than in its progression. If this doesn't ring alarm bells for the average Canadian who loves Canada and make him/her step back, think and raise her/his guard, in all reality, what will??? Electroshock therapy?
Canada will never be taken over by force and, in my opinion, that arguement is bait for pointless debate to occupy Canadian mentality in frivolous matters (no offense intended to strings on this web site as well as it's posters), and a responsibility best left for the ministry of defence, but imagine one thing, Canada taken over through peace (a Canadian ideal and the best time to catch you with yer trousers down.. If I were an expansionist American, that's how I'd get mine back for the years of pie throwing. "Take that you longhaired, tree hugging, hippy, jesus freaks!!").
Does it sound like fear mongering??
Fear mongering is commonly used within the american political sectors. Fear runs their economy, keeps people in check and is a method utilized to maintain their internal defence. Those that know how to use it best are those that use it frequently. I have never noticed it used in Canada.( this can be used to Canada's credit as well as demise) but really, how many sign posts does it take for Canadians to notice what road they're heading down!? Maybe it's time to stop the car and get out the roadmap!
STALL DEEP INTEGRATION!!!
Ok, did I miss something here, what is this "Deep Intergration" stuff? Its a bit late for an anti-NAFTA rant or is this something new. Educate me on this please, I've been away for 3 weeks.