Land Transfer Tax
Winnipegger Winnipegger:
They goal is to shift the goal posts, to actual buyers who want a place to live, not speculators screwing the rest of us for their profit. And notice what I proposed would eliminate land transfer tax for anyone who isn't flipping. If you buy a tract of land from someone who owned it for more than 2 years, then build houses on it... Hmm. Would have to create a special exemption for that. Ensure no land transfer tax for someone buying a home in a new housing development. If they sell that house in less than 2 years, then there would be tax. But not when they buy.
Okay, so you have a hard-on for people who flip homes. So noted.
Now let's say you have your way and no one flips homes in Winnipeg anymore. Yay.
Now instead of having someone going around fixing up dilapidated homes and reselling them you'll have
blight in the marginal areas where people can't get home improvement loans (based on loan-to-values). And then when the homes are abandoned no one will be willing to fix them up because of the financial penalties for doing so.
Brilliant.
The problem was speculators were buying homes and not fixing them up. Absentee owners, dilapidated homes sitting derelict while those speculators tried to sell them for ridiculous prices.
That created another problem. Mayor Glen Murray created a bylaw that allows the city to bulldoze down derelict houses. One case in the newspaper was an individual who bought an old house, tried to fix it up himself so he could sell it for profit. Doing the work himself took time, but kept the cost down. With all the overhead of selling, the markup has to be significant to make retained profit. There's real estate agent's commission, lawyer fee, since 1991 there's GST on real estate when a major renovation has taken place. But the city chose to bulldoze this guy's house. He was fixing it up! Even if he wasn't, I consider that malicious destruction of private property. If I had my way I would have the RCMP arrest city officials responsible. But do you see the consequence? Absentee owners causing blight.
I started this because I often heard federal MPs from BC call for federal help for affordable housing. Today I received an email from the Liberal party with an election promise to do this. You tell me if Justin Trudeau's plan is better.
Trudeau promises affordable housing for Canadians
herbie @ Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:04 am
In BC it's 3% abd such a cash cow it's here forever.
Sad to think when I bought my first house the Province gave us a Homeowner grant of $5000 as the old Social Credit thought home ownership was vital. They'd even extended that to cover mobile homes as starters.
Being a LAW, it's black and white. Even when someone dies, the tax applies transferring title to their heirs. In order to keep my parent's vacation cabin we'd have to PAY $4200 tax...
Affordable housing? My uncle in Vancouver considered building a laneway house to live in while he rented out the main house for retirement income. The permits alone would have cost over $30,000
Back to that cabin - we considered upgrading it, put in a well for running water. It's totally in the boonies. Get rid of the outhouse? A septic tank and field up to spec would have cost almost $35,000
I even worked installing Internet in a mining exploration camp hundreds of miles in the bush. They had to move their bunkhouse 75 feet to a new location to comply with those bloody septic regulations. God know what that cost.
Lemmy @ Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:48 am
People don't like paying taxes. They will always try to avoid paying taxes. Therefore, we ought to tax behaviours we would prefer to discourage. Is transferring land something that should be discouraged? If so, tax it. If not, don't.
Winnipegger Winnipegger:
I started this because I often heard federal MPs from BC call for federal help for affordable housing. Today I received an email from the Liberal party with an election promise to do this. You tell me if Justin Trudeau's plan is better.
Trudeau promises affordable housing for CanadiansIt's just BS....especially in big, well developed cities where the affordable housing is required.
$1:
“Only Liberals have a plan to put more money in families’ pockets to help with the high cost of raising their kids..."
Coming from the guy that supports the Ontario Pension plan & plans to increase EI contributions. Might as well just hand over the wallet!
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Keep in mind that taxes DISCOURAGE economic activity so you're not going to solve a housing problem by taxing housing, you're only going to create a bigger housing problem by doing this.
I think this is what Winnipegger is getting at. He isn't proposing new taxes, he's proposing eliminating taxes for the subgroups those taxes hurt the most.
I'm also of the opinion that these low interest rates are exactly the opposite of what the country needs at this time, but that's it's own topic.
Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Keep in mind that taxes DISCOURAGE economic activity so you're not going to solve a housing problem by taxing housing, you're only going to create a bigger housing problem by doing this.
I think this is what Winnipegger is getting at. He isn't proposing new taxes, he's proposing eliminating taxes for the subgroups those taxes hurt the most.
I'm also of the opinion that these low interest rates are exactly the opposite of what the country needs at this time, but that's it's own topic.
He wants the government to try to control the market with various schemes.
They can't.
Winnipegger Winnipegger:
The problem was speculators were buying homes and not fixing them up. Absentee owners, dilapidated homes sitting derelict while those speculators tried to sell them for ridiculous prices.
That created another problem. Mayor Glen Murray created a bylaw that allows the city to bulldoze down derelict houses. One case in the newspaper was an individual who bought an old house, tried to fix it up himself so he could sell it for profit. Doing the work himself took time, but kept the cost down. With all the overhead of selling, the markup has to be significant to make retained profit. There's real estate agent's commission, lawyer fee, since 1991 there's GST on real estate when a major renovation has taken place. But the city chose to bulldoze this guy's house. He was fixing it up! Even if he wasn't, I consider that malicious destruction of private property. If I had my way I would have the RCMP arrest city officials responsible. But do you see the consequence? Absentee owners causing blight.
Absentee owners usually don't
cause blight for the simple reason that doing so negates their investment.
Blighted areas, to be noted, often present opportunities for the unscrupulous to buy properties and then rent them to less discerning tenants.
The key then is to implement a philosophy in government that discourages blight and instead facilitates prosperity.
So how does your tax proposal facilitate prosperity and prevent blight given that it has to function in a free market?
Lemmy Lemmy:
People don't like paying taxes. They will always try to avoid paying taxes. Therefore, we ought to tax behaviours we would prefer to discourage. Is transferring land something that should be discouraged? If so, tax it. If not, don't.
Nicely summarized.
Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:
I think this is what Winnipegger is getting at. He isn't proposing new taxes, he's proposing eliminating taxes for the subgroups those taxes hurt the most.
Well put. After debating you guys, debating a cabinet minister would be easy.
Ps. Where is Joe Oliver?
herbie @ Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:35 pm
Your resident commie says we should triple the tax. Then exempt citizens from the tax on a Primary Residence. Then if you upgrade to a new house you pay the tax until you provide proof you sold the old one, to prevent scammers.
Might even help with those offshore buyers driving up prices.
Winnipegger, just curious why do you oppose investors who purchase, rehab, and resell properties that would otherwise not be fixed up?
I imagine you think of Mr. Moneybags from Monopoly flipping property and taking bags of cash to the bank.
I think of people like Nicole Curtis who saves old homes in sketchy neighborhoods and restores them to their former glory. She has a serious love for old homes as is illustrated in the second link:
http://www.nicolecurtis.com/
http://www.kare11.com/story/news/local/ ... 3/3837059/
She's one of those evil speculators you're discouraging. 
Look at today's prices. Something is driving up prices, and it isn't supply-and-demand of people who live there. From news I read it's overseas speculators trying to make a profit. And they don't come here to fix them up, they never set foot in Canada at all. All done remotely. The most "fix-up" is a hired real estate agent mowing the law and arranging the drapes.
And when Winnipeg had it's real estate boom, it wasn't just ignorant Toronto speculators. There were also drug dealers. They would buy a high end house in a posh neighbourhood, gut it and convert into a grow op. The humidity ruined the house. But police found out, and it hit the newspapers. I thought the practice stopped after police targeted them, but it looks like it continues. Drove up prices. Average Winnipeggers now have to suffer with high real estate. And landlords drove up rental prices to follow. My mother is a senior citizen, living on retirement savings. Her building keeps hiking the rent. And some friends have difficulty with rent.
dismantled by Winnipeg police 2005-2008: Marijuana Grow Operations
RCMP, current: Marihuana Grow Operations (their spelling)