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Rev
"I'm tired of everything in our society being for the children."
Well that says it all.

Plastic, truck fumes, led paint, carpeting that off gases, all your arguments were just noise.
A big empty self centered barrel making noise nothing to do with the existing problems.
There was no concern for the well being of society.
Just you and your little child-hating world.
This kind of behavior must have come from somewhere
What ever did your parents do to you when you were young?
Or were you just always this self-absorbed.

   

Hmmm.. if you go back 20 years ( when you could smoke everywhere) what was the amount of cars on the road vs. the number of cases of asthma...

and then back to today.. number of cars vs. cases of asthma...

and 20 years ago when I was growing up none of us ate the crap most parents feed their kids today ...processed this and microwaved that because soiciety has been forced into the need for double income households just to raise kids..

We don't eat out every night ( hardly at all), my kids brown bag their lunches of PBJ, cheese or balogna sandwiches and a peice of fuit for their snack... They are pretty much 'A' students, who get the odd cold and are strong and healthy as horses...Thank goodness..

My friend on the other hand ( even though I love her dearly), has two girls who were raised on junk food..fast food and the like, have asthma, add and the like... NOthing to do with smoking at all

   

Ralph... in all these studies...did they take into account other enviromental conditions that the children might have encountered?

Do they live in areas in factories ? Do the children play near these factories ? Do the children with parents who don't smoke ( in the same areas) suffer from the same problems. Is there a high traffic area near where these children live? What is the air quality of the schoool they live in? Do they live down wind from a major chemical plant? Is the drinking water in their school or home contaminated? Is the plumbing in their homes lead, copper, plastic? How about the insulation in their home or school? Does there teacher wear a cologne or perfume that triggers an allergy?

When studies are done there is a need to eliminate all other possibilities. Has that criteria been met ? And in answer to the anticipated question ...No I don't smoke anymore. I haven't had a cigarette in almost nine years. What a person choses to do in the privacy of their home or car is their business.

What do you expect the government to do in a case like this ? Remove the children ? What sort of devastating effect would that have ? Fine the parents?...take resources away from the parent, that would be used in to benefit the child. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

How would you police this ?What would you say to spouse, whose spouse, had passed away or been injured, protecting their home from an invader because a police officer is writing up a ticket for a smoker ? Do you think the fines would justify or even cover the cost ?

What of the police officers that smoke ? Would there be investigations in to officers that were to lenient on smokers ? How much would that cost?

   

I was lucky I didn’t have all that much money to throw at take out food and junk food for my children. A few cookies now and then but they were fed the best food that we could afford to buy.
And now that times are better we have never gotten used to junk food.
My children are grown now and are preparing to have families of their own.
I know you can’t live in a shell and a treat every now and then is not the end of the world.
But diet is a major cause of bad health in young people.
Its not JUST one thing like smoking in a car.
But we should make every effort to eliminate as many of the bad things as we can.

   

Zenfisher

Yes they were from equal social economic groups in the same parts of the city in one case.
And they compared the children of smokers and non-smokers in those areas.
Also families out side of large industrial areas, with the similar social economic standings.
The findings were the same in both studies. Smoking was a major factor in the child’s health

   

As far as policing goes it might be like enforcing the seatbelt law.
Frankly I really don’t know how if it would or would not work they can’t get people to stop drinking and driving.
But the point would be to make people stop and think.
And if you think it is rare to see people driving with a cigarette in there mouth and a child in a car seat, next time your out and about keep your eyes open for this and you will be surprised.

   

Don't get me wrong.. my kids get treats ( sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound so overboardd like i was an ogre) ...slurpees on a hot day... popcorn for movie nights...but they will grab a banana after school before they go play.. we have tried to curb the excess of junk food, and sugar and stuff...

I think everything in life has to be in moderation and balance

Of course not smoking around kids is a good thing, not smoking is a good thing... but not living in a police state is also good...and when will the line be drawn...

   

You can’t take peanut butter and jelly sandwiches to many schools now and that’s a bitch because I love pbj’s ..but if it will stop some poor child from dieing then so be it.
You sound like you love your family very much not mean at all, but caring. And that is all I would like people to be just careing enough to put aside there little pleasures for there children .
Not quit smoking just eliminates the exposure.

   

How do I put this? Piss off, Ralph...you don't know what you're talking about and you aren't addressing my points.

You are older than I am, apparently. Chances are that when you were growing up most of the adults you knew smoked...everywhere...all of the time.

How many kids did you know that had asthma, allergies, chronic ear infections, and all of the maladies that are now so common and are being blamed solely on second-hand smoke? Not many, were there.

Your solution is to go after the few remaining smokers though, apparently whether they have children or not. It's odd how saving the kids has gotten smoking banned in bars. Kids aren't allowed in bars. It's gotten smoking banned at many outdoor venues where any second hand exposure would be less than inhaling the pollutants already in the air.

Now you want to tell people whether they can smoke in their cars and their homes.

Has it occurred to you that maybe you're going waaaaaaaay to far? Has it occurred to you that your energies would be better off spent worrying about more important things, like the fact that every time you use that anti-bacterial soap in your kitchen you contribute to the creation super-bacteria?

   

Some of the modern frea, er, I mean special people with lists of allergies, puffers, ADD, dyslexia, and all the modern stuff we didn't have when I was a kid have gotten big enough that they are being sent to job sites for me to train. They never seem to last and I wonder if maybe we wouldn't be better off without them? It isn't like the planet is short of people or anything.

Banning jam and peanut butter? Good God: I'm on the wrong planet.

   

Rev, you forgot to mention Windex in your list of home products people use.
Windex is carcinogenic. Vinegar and water is not.

All those products we use to clean our houses like pine sol have not been tested for health hazards sinze 1950.

Vaccuuming your house these days is also dangerous is you don't use a hepa filter vaccuum. Dust is also carcinogenic.

Mildew and mold in your house? Causes asthma. Mold and mildew under your carpet? Probably, especially if you've ever spilled something on it.

What about the radiation from your computer monitor?

What about the pesticide used on fruits and vegetables? The USA uses "sludge" fertilizer on it's russet potatoes. Sludge is human waste.

The fish you eat? Farmed? PCB. Tuna? skipjack, bluefin(light meat or pink meat tuna)? over 1.5ppm in mercury. FDA limit 1.00ppm , CFIA limit .5ppm.

What about the effects of stress? some studies show results that indicate stress can make someone more susceptible to cancer.

So.........there is no way to do a controlled study on kids or adults and second hand smoke.

Did you know that MS actually started by a virus infecting the DNA of humans thousands of years ago? pretty interesting........

   

It's funny...one of my sisters-in-law is an absolute clean freak...more cleaning products in her house than the average grocery store. Never a spec of dust on the TV or an empty coffee cup on the kitchen counter. Her kids are always sick, the two oldest have asthma and allergies. Neither my bro or his wife smoke and they don't even own an ashtray.

When those kids spend a couple of weeks with either of my parents, they suddenly get all healthy. Their asthma and allergies disappear. The sniffles go away. Neither of my parents are dirty people, but the environment is far less than sterile. The floors are swept with a broom, the dusting only gets done if it's raining out. People are allowed to smoke in their houses. There are dogs and cats running around.

In other words it is the same envirnment that my three healthy brothers and myself grew up in and, surprise, surprise, the kids get healthier when they are there too.

   

I think there is a good point here.....all these fancy shmancy cleaners that are on the market...I use plan old dish soap... and if it calls for it bleach.. for the bathroom... comet..

I don't have cupboards full of crap... I was brought up to believe thats all you need.

and I have a sister who goes through the same thing with her daughter... allergies to this and that, athsma, and she is a clean freak too..

I was just at the store and something else on the shelf made me think of this topic...all the air fresheners and stuff... geez, just open a window...

There are germs and bacteria everywhere you go it is just a fact, and being exposed to them only builds your immune system.

My house is pretty clean, but lived in...and I kind of like it that way...

   

Rev
"I'm tired of everything in our society being for the children."

All your arguments were made moot when you said that.
You don't give a rats ass about the environment or the children its just words to you.

Unless you can clarify what you meant by everything in our society being for the children
And yes today more children are being diagnosed with respiratory aliments. and a whole list of other things as well than in our day.

Medical science didn't stand still since you were a child ,we no longer use leeches, I really don't remember a child with a puffer when I was young because there were no puffers.I do however remember more children dieing.

Buy feel free to use your puffer at least you aren't around children.

And as for the piss off segment of your self-centered rant
I told you where I would like to piss off already.

   

Yes you did, Ralph...and the feeling is quickly becoming mutual.

You are ignoring most of my points and failing to recognise the fact that your children are your responsibility not mine. You don't want them exposed to second-hand smoke? No problem at all, don't bring them to my house and keep them the hell out of my car. Don't want them to see pictures of boobies? Fine, install net-nanny on your computer instead of trying to restrict other's access to pictures of breasts.

In other words keep your puritanical legislation to yourself and leave the rest of us to take responsibility for our own actions.

   

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