Ontarians-The Battered Wives of Confederation
Motorcycleboy @ Fri May 20, 2005 7:35 pm
Ontarians are losers. I say that as a pissed of 905'r from the suburbs of T.O.
What is the problem with my fellow people? Why don't we get it, when the rest of Canada so obviously does?
Ontarians, by virtue of their numbers, have come to represent the misguided fortunes of Canada as a whole.
Look at the recent polls.
Steven Harper, the most forthright and idealistic politician in Canada over the last century (though not necessarily the most charismatic) is hated in this province. Yet we seem to love Paul Martin, a man derided as "Mr Dither's" by the the press of Europe, America and everywhere else that matters. The most recent poll suggests Martin is considered to be a total liar by 63 per cent of Canadians, yet Ontarians can't get enough of the guy.
And the Liberals! They stole our money, cosied up with mob types and used tax dollars for their own re-election. Yet Ontarians are still ready to support them en-masse if a vote were held.
In answer to all this, Ontarians seem to be saying that they want to wait. They want to wait for the outcome of the Gomery Commission, which will formally confirm that yes, indeed, the Liberal Party of Canada stole everyone's money. Then what Ontario? Well, then they'll vote the Liberals in again of course? Why?
Why is because Ontarians are like a battered wife. She's sad the ole' man beat her up. She's mad he cheats on her. But she loves him. She's afraid of change. And she's willing to forgive him, but wants him to lay low for a few months till she gets over it.
Ontario exemplifies the worst of Canada. The lack of identity, the lack of culture. All of this stems from Ontario. Westerners know who they are. Maritimers know who they are. Quebecors certainly know who they are.
But Ontario?
Ontario is a conglomeration of the worst loser instincts of Canada. It's a suburb of America. America lite. America without the personality, palm trees or fun.
Ontario, despite it's economic wealth, is the perpetual loser of the Canadian Federation. This is a province who've supported the Toronto Maple Leafs for 2 generations, despite the fact they can't win a Stanley Cup to save their lives, and had an owner for two decades who bragged about the lack of money he spent on talent while still reaping the gate receipts.
This is a province who supports an inept Provincial Liberal Government that blatantly lied and increased taxes when promising they wouldn't while now villifying the Previous Harris Conservatives for doing EXACTLY what they said they'd do when they were elected.
The only hope for Ontario and it's inhabitants, the only thing that will ever snap them out of their complacency and ignorance, is the emergence of a strong Western Seperatist movement, or the succession of Quebec. Either would provide a shock to the system that would force the sheep in this province to wake up and smell the coffee. There's something inherently wrong with giving the Liberals a pass on widespread corruption and mismanagement. Ontarians, as an electorate, don't seem to know that and keep on supporting those corrupt motherfuckers in Ottawa. That is just wrong. On about 25 different levels.
I'll be interested to see somebody defend the Federal Liberals in regards to this post. C'mon Avro, bring it on.
Take care all.
Lawndart (had some log in problems)
Motorcycleboy @ Fri May 20, 2005 7:45 pm
[/quote]Comparing a province to a battered woman is a little off though. The average battered woman doesn't have the power in the relationship that you Ontarians do. And what does that make those of us in the rest of the country?[/quote]
That makes those of you in the rest of the country the.......
Children.
Maybe if they'd grow up and strike out on their own, like Quebecors have been doing for the last quarter century or so, something could get done in this dysfunctional family.
jadeofthenorth @ Fri May 20, 2005 7:46 pm
Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:
Steven Harper, the most forthright and idealistic politician in Canada over the last century (though not necessarily the most charismatic)
I stopped reading right then and there.
You would honestly put Harper above: Trudeau, Borden, Laurier or King? I'm not saying Martin is of that caliber either, but Harper? Get real.
Edit: Lawndart, while you may think your comparison is 'clever', its totally inaccurate. It's just a lame way to push your agenda.
ziggy @ Fri May 20, 2005 7:47 pm
Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:
Ontarians are losers. I say that as a pissed of 905'r from the suburbs of T.O.
What is the problem with my fellow people? Why don't we get it, when the rest of Canada so obviously does?
Ontarians, by virtue of their numbers, have come to represent the misguided fortunes of Canada as a whole.
Look at the recent polls.
Steven Harper, the most forthright and idealistic politician in Canada over the last century (though not necessarily the most charismatic) is hated in this province. Yet we seem to love Paul Martin, a man derided as "Mr Dither's" by the the press of Europe, America and everywhere else that matters. The most recent poll suggests Martin is considered to be a total liar by 63 per cent of Canadians, yet Ontarians can't get enough of the guy.
And the Liberals! They stole our money, cosied up with mob types and used tax dollars for their own re-election. Yet Ontarians are still ready to support them en-masse if a vote were held.
In answer to all this, Ontarians seem to be saying that they want to wait. They want to wait for the outcome of the Gomery Commission, which will formally confirm that yes, indeed, the Liberal Party of Canada stole everyone's money. Then what Ontario? Well, then they'll vote the Liberals in again of course? Why?
Why is because Ontarians are like a battered wife. She's sad the ole' man beat her up. She's mad he cheats on her. But she loves him. She's afraid of change. And she's willing to forgive him, but wants him to lay low for a few months till she gets over it.
Ontario exemplifies the worst of Canada. The lack of identity, the lack of culture. All of this stems from Ontario. Westerners know who they are. Maritimers know who they are. Quebecors certainly know who they are.
But Ontario?
Ontario is a conglomeration of the worst loser instincts of Canada. It's a suburb of America. America lite. America without the personality, palm trees or fun.
Ontario, despite it's economic wealth, is the perpetual loser of the Canadian Federation. This is a province who've supported the Toronto Maple Leafs for 2 generations, despite the fact they can't win a Stanley Cup to save their lives, and had an owner for two decades who bragged about the lack of money he spent on talent while still reaping the gate receipts.
This is a province who supports an inept Provincial Liberal Government that blatantly lied and increased taxes when promising they wouldn't while now villifying the Previous Harris Conservatives for doing EXACTLY what they said they'd do when they were elected.
The only hope for Ontario and it's inhabitants, the only thing that will ever snap them out of their complacency and ignorance, is the emergence of a strong Western Seperatist movement, or the succession of Quebec. Either would provide a shock to the system that would force the sheep in this province to wake up and smell the coffee. There's something inherently wrong with giving the Liberals a pass on widespread corruption and mismanagement. Ontarians, as an electorate, don't seem to know that and keep on supporting those corrupt motherfuckers in Ottawa. That is just wrong. On about 25 different levels.
I'll be interested to see somebody defend the Federal Liberals in regards to this post. C'mon Avro, bring it on.
Take care all.
Lawndart (had some log in problems)
BUT BUT BUT, isnt there still cash stuffed envelopes being handed out???
What is the problem with my fellow people? Why don't we get it, when the rest of Canada so obviously does?
Ontarians, by virtue of their numbers, have come to represent the misguided fortunes of Canada as a whole.
Look at the recent polls.
Steven Harper, the most forthright and idealistic politician in Canada over the last century (though not necessarily the most charismatic) is hated in this province. Yet we seem to love Paul Martin, a man derided as "Mr Dither's" by the the press of Europe, America and everywhere else that matters. The most recent poll suggests Martin is considered to be a total liar by 63 per cent of Canadians, yet Ontarians can't get enough of the guy.
And the Liberals! They stole our money, cosied up with mob types and used tax dollars for their own re-election. Yet Ontarians are still ready to support them en-masse if a vote were held.
In answer to all this, Ontarians seem to be saying that they want to wait. They want to wait for the outcome of the Gomery Commission, which will formally confirm that yes, indeed, the Liberal Party of Canada stole everyone's money. Then what Ontario? Well, then they'll vote the Liberals in again of course? Why?
Why is because Ontarians are like a battered wife. She's sad the ole' man beat her up. She's mad he cheats on her. But she loves him. She's afraid of change. And she's willing to forgive him, but wants him to lay low for a few months till she gets over it.
Ontario exemplifies the worst of Canada. The lack of identity, the lack of culture. All of this stems from Ontario. Westerners know who they are. Maritimers know who they are. Quebecors certainly know who they are.
But Ontario?
Ontario is a conglomeration of the worst loser instincts of Canada. It's a suburb of America. America lite. America without the personality, palm trees or fun.
Ontario, despite it's economic wealth, is the perpetual loser of the Canadian Federation. This is a province who've supported the Toronto Maple Leafs for 2 generations, despite the fact they can't win a Stanley Cup to save their lives, and had an owner for two decades who bragged about the lack of money he spent on talent while still reaping the gate receipts.
This is a province who supports an inept Provincial Liberal Government that blatantly lied and increased taxes when promising they wouldn't while now villifying the Previous Harris Conservatives for doing EXACTLY what they said they'd do when they were elected.
The only hope for Ontario and it's inhabitants, the only thing that will ever snap them out of their complacency and ignorance, is the emergence of a strong Western Seperatist movement, or the succession of Quebec. Either would provide a shock to the system that would force the sheep in this province to wake up and smell the coffee. There's something inherently wrong with giving the Liberals a pass on widespread corruption and mismanagement. Ontarians, as an electorate, don't seem to know that and keep on supporting those corrupt motherfuckers in Ottawa. That is just wrong. On about 25 different levels.
I'll be interested to see somebody defend the Federal Liberals in regards to this post. C'mon Avro, bring it on.
Take care all.
Lawndart (had some log in problems)
ziggy @ Fri May 20, 2005 7:49 pm
lily lily:
$1:
Ontario is a conglomeration of the worst loser instincts of Canada. It's a suburb of America. America lite. America without the personality, palm trees or fun.
I have palm trees in my town. Not that you'll find palm trees in "America"... just parts of it.
Comparing a province to a battered woman is a little off though. The average battered woman doesn't have the power in the relationship that you Ontarians do. And what does that make those of us in the rest of the country?
And all this time I've been eating mine raw.
Motorcycleboy @ Fri May 20, 2005 7:56 pm
Jade, sorry, I meant to say, "Quarter Century."
But that said....
You can't argue the guy has a very defined and serious view of how things should be done. He wants to change the hand out culture that's so pervasive, reduce government interference in people's lives, shift the power centre from Quebec to the west and basically move things slightly right.
You may not agree with his politics, and that's fair enough. But you can't say he doesn't have a vision.
Martin has none of that. His only "vision" is that he has a job he rather likes and wants to keep it. That's bullshit, and it's the driving force behind the cynicism and apathy that's killing Canada.
As for your points about vision, yeah, I agree on Trudeau. He had a vision. I don't agree with most of it, but he had one and that's what made him a great leader. Borden was a nobody. Laurier wasn't bad, but was really just a caretaker, and King was a right the fuck off. Just another Martin. He knew how to maintain power but not how to lead. The troops in Italy booed him when he visited in '44, the country almost came apart under his "leadership" during the conscription crisis and he spent his off time talking to his dead mommy. C'mon, you can do better than that.
Bracken would have been better for the country in the 40's, but once again, Ontarians couldn't be persuaded to take a chance on something that might be better.
ziggy @ Fri May 20, 2005 8:02 pm
Pierre did have a vision,he didnt share it with me but we did chow down on a couple of skin dogs in the early 70's,then he gave us the finger. 
jadeofthenorth @ Fri May 20, 2005 8:07 pm
Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:
Jade, sorry, I meant to say, "Quarter Century."
But that said....
You can't argue the guy has a very defined and serious view of how things should be done. He wants to change the hand out culture that's so pervasive, reduce government interference in people's lives, shift the power centre from Quebec to the west and basically move things slightly right.
You may not agree with his politics, and that's fair enough. But you can't say he doesn't have a vision.
Martin has none of that. His only "vision" is that he has a job he rather likes and wants to keep it. That's bullshit, and it's the driving force behind the cynicism and apathy that's killing Canada.
As for your points about vision, yeah, I agree on Trudeau. He had a vision. I don't agree with most of it, but he had one and that's what made him a great leader. Borden was a nobody. Laurier wasn't bad, but was really just a caretaker, and King was a right the fuck off. Just another Martin. He knew how to maintain power but not how to lead. The troops in Italy booed him when he visited in '44, the country almost came apart under his "leadership" during the conscription crisis and he spent his off time talking to his dead mommy. C'mon, you can do better than that.
Bracken would have been better for the country in the 40's, but once again, Ontarians couldn't be persuaded to take a chance on something that might be better.
But that said....
You can't argue the guy has a very defined and serious view of how things should be done. He wants to change the hand out culture that's so pervasive, reduce government interference in people's lives, shift the power centre from Quebec to the west and basically move things slightly right.
You may not agree with his politics, and that's fair enough. But you can't say he doesn't have a vision.
Martin has none of that. His only "vision" is that he has a job he rather likes and wants to keep it. That's bullshit, and it's the driving force behind the cynicism and apathy that's killing Canada.
As for your points about vision, yeah, I agree on Trudeau. He had a vision. I don't agree with most of it, but he had one and that's what made him a great leader. Borden was a nobody. Laurier wasn't bad, but was really just a caretaker, and King was a right the fuck off. Just another Martin. He knew how to maintain power but not how to lead. The troops in Italy booed him when he visited in '44, the country almost came apart under his "leadership" during the conscription crisis and he spent his off time talking to his dead mommy. C'mon, you can do better than that.
Bracken would have been better for the country in the 40's, but once again, Ontarians couldn't be persuaded to take a chance on something that might be better.
Laurier and Trudeau were my two favorites out of the First amoung equals. Laurier created sask and alberta, he had a great vision for filling Canada's west. If it wasn't for his immigration policies, we might not have such a successful west.
I can agree that Harper has vision; his economic policies are great, but his social policies are scary and too right wing. If he would better present his economic policies and put his focus on them, I would give him a second look. You say he wants to "reduce government interference in people's lives," but he is opposed to gay marriage, abortion, legalizing pot etc. I think if it were up to Harper, homosexuality would be illegal. He clearly wants to force his morals on the country; despite his more libertarian economic policies. If Harper had a solid, more socially liberal, justice minister lined up and acctually let him/her speak and make decitions, Harper could acctually take the gov't. Oh, and get a hair stylist for God's sake.
ambivalent @ Fri May 20, 2005 8:12 pm
ziggy ziggy:
And all this time I've been eating mine raw.
(I'm going to hell for laughing at that.)
Here's my best attempt at defending the Liberals:
They aren't the Reform Party, and they aren't the NDP.
That's all I got.
QuebecSpock @ Fri May 20, 2005 8:13 pm
Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:
The most recent poll suggests Martin is considered to be a total liar by 63 per cent of Canadians
Really? Which poll?
If it's true, there is hope...
Damien @ Fri May 20, 2005 8:31 pm
Even if they are going to get my vote, one thing the conservetives should do is to replace Harper by Bernard Lord ...
ziggy @ Fri May 20, 2005 8:33 pm
ambivalent ambivalent:
ziggy ziggy:
And all this time I've been eating mine raw.
(I'm going to hell for laughing at that.)
Here's my best attempt at defending the Liberals:
They aren't the Reform Party, and they aren't the NDP.
That's all I got.
ziggy @ Fri May 20, 2005 8:37 pm
ziggy ziggy:
ambivalent ambivalent:
ziggy ziggy:
And all this time I've been eating mine raw.
(I'm going to hell for laughing at that.)
Here's my best attempt at defending the Liberals:
They aren't the Reform Party, and they aren't the NDP.
That's all I got.
DevilsAdvocate @ Fri May 20, 2005 9:18 pm
I guess I have to post this in every thread until it sinks into people's skulls.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
$1:
Ontario and Quebec WILL NOT VOTE FOR THE CANADIAN REFORM ALLIANCE PARTY.
The Liberal government has made mistake after mistake and yet Ontario and Quebec WILL NOT VOTE FOR THE CONSERVATIVES.
This is mostly the Reform party who stood for cutting spending on official languages, cultural programs (including the CBC), foreign aid and reduced social spending. They wanted a flat tax, which reduced the tax burden on the rich while raising it on the poor. The members of CRAP think that Kyoto is a joke because global warming doesn't exist.
This directly from their 1993 platform:
If elected, a Reform Government will abolish the Department of Multiculturalism. We will focus the activities of the federal government on enhancing the citizenship of all Canadians regardless of race, language, or culture. Individuals and groups would be free to preserve their cultural heritage using their own resources.
Bible thumpers like Day who think the Earth is 6,000 years old lead to things such as not wanting gay marriage and the Reform party was very much against abortion.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
And while there are a number who who agree with that whole platform, ONTARIO NEVER EVER EVER EVER will. The Liberal party could go on and hand over another 10 billion to their buddies and Ontario WILL NOT VOTE FOR C.R.A.P. The people here would rather vote for a corrupt Liberal party than hand the reigns over to a party made up of members who believe in that kind of a platform.
So while those in the West say "Ottawa isn't working - throw out the Liberals" and Ontario is saying "Ottawa isn't working - throw out the Conservatives" and Quebec is saying "We want to elect a whole bunch of seperatists", we will continue to be stuck the same spot for many, many years to come. Cause we can't an all good conscience support the Conservative party... we're left with no choice but to vote Liberal or NDP to keep the Conservatives and their Jesusland agenda out of Canada.
ONTARIO WILL FORGIVE ADSCAM BECAUSE THERE IS NO OTHER VIABLE PARTY WITH A PLATFORM THAT WE CAN VOTE FOR. Germany once threw out the corrupt Social Democrats to put in the only viable alternative. That didn't work out so well.
And the Conservatives can continue to move their platform further and further to the centre... Ontario just doesn't believe them. We know these are the same people that were in the Reform party with the above platform and as soon as they get in they will go right back to their true anti-Canadian belief system.
So you can groan and complain and kick dirt on the umpire, but we're not going to change.
The Liberal government has made mistake after mistake and yet Ontario and Quebec WILL NOT VOTE FOR THE CONSERVATIVES.
This is mostly the Reform party who stood for cutting spending on official languages, cultural programs (including the CBC), foreign aid and reduced social spending. They wanted a flat tax, which reduced the tax burden on the rich while raising it on the poor. The members of CRAP think that Kyoto is a joke because global warming doesn't exist.
This directly from their 1993 platform:
If elected, a Reform Government will abolish the Department of Multiculturalism. We will focus the activities of the federal government on enhancing the citizenship of all Canadians regardless of race, language, or culture. Individuals and groups would be free to preserve their cultural heritage using their own resources.
Bible thumpers like Day who think the Earth is 6,000 years old lead to things such as not wanting gay marriage and the Reform party was very much against abortion.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
And while there are a number who who agree with that whole platform, ONTARIO NEVER EVER EVER EVER will. The Liberal party could go on and hand over another 10 billion to their buddies and Ontario WILL NOT VOTE FOR C.R.A.P. The people here would rather vote for a corrupt Liberal party than hand the reigns over to a party made up of members who believe in that kind of a platform.
So while those in the West say "Ottawa isn't working - throw out the Liberals" and Ontario is saying "Ottawa isn't working - throw out the Conservatives" and Quebec is saying "We want to elect a whole bunch of seperatists", we will continue to be stuck the same spot for many, many years to come. Cause we can't an all good conscience support the Conservative party... we're left with no choice but to vote Liberal or NDP to keep the Conservatives and their Jesusland agenda out of Canada.
ONTARIO WILL FORGIVE ADSCAM BECAUSE THERE IS NO OTHER VIABLE PARTY WITH A PLATFORM THAT WE CAN VOTE FOR. Germany once threw out the corrupt Social Democrats to put in the only viable alternative. That didn't work out so well.
And the Conservatives can continue to move their platform further and further to the centre... Ontario just doesn't believe them. We know these are the same people that were in the Reform party with the above platform and as soon as they get in they will go right back to their true anti-Canadian belief system.
So you can groan and complain and kick dirt on the umpire, but we're not going to change.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
So get this through your heads. WE WILL NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT vote for Stephen Harper and his Reform Party.
Repeatedly insulting us isn't going to make us extremist right wingers.
Threatening to leave isn't going to make us extremist right wingers.
Jumping up and down and making funny faces isn't going to make us extremist right wingers.
Posting "corruption" 100,000 times on a message board isn't going to make us extremist right wingers.
And until we become extremist right wingers we ain't voting for CRAP. WE WOULD RATHER VOTE FOR A "CORRUPT" LIBERAL PARTY THAN VOTE FOR THE REFORM PARTY.
We're not SCARED of Steven Harper. WE JUST DON'T LIKE HIM OR HIS POLICIES. The Conservative policies don't run well here. The only thing the Conservatives can run on is the one issue - "We're not the corrupt Liberals". They don't want to discuss WHO THEY ACTUALLY ARE, because when they do that, they dip even further behind than the 45% to 30% that they are currently running in this province.
Motorcycleboy @ Fri May 20, 2005 9:52 pm
Show me one quote in the Tory platform that advocates the outlawing abortion Devil? Tell me how lower taxes and fewer government hand-outs constitute a "Right Wing Agenda."
You're half the problem.
And I assure you Devil, the only reason Ontarians are consistently scared into voting Liberal, is because they fear Quebec Seperatism. Wave the spectre of Western Seperatism in their face, and they'd have something to really worry about. Someday, they may figure that out. If they fail to respond to the demands of that part of Canada.
And I'm not shouting "corruption, corruption" etc. The Liberals have managed to do that all by themselves. I, unlike most Ontarians, just noticed it.
Take care Devil's Ad, my poor battered woman. You know, they have hotlines, shelters and social services for that now. Try dialling someone other than LIBERAL! Maybe they'll help you.
Lawndart!