Canada Kicks Ass
Polygamy Law

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Tman1 @ Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:10 pm

$1:
OTTAWA (CP) - A new study for the federal Justice Department says Canada should get rid of its law banning polygamy, and change other legislation to help women and children living in such multiple-spouse relationships.

"Criminalization does not address the harms associated with valid foreign polygamous marriages and plural unions, in particular the harms to women," says the report, obtained by The Canadian Press under the Access to Information Act. "The report therefore recommends that this provision be repealed."

The research paper is part of a controversial $150,000 polygamy project, launched a year ago and paid for by the Justice Department and Status of Women Canada.

The paper by three law professors at Queen's University in Kingston, Ont., argues that Sec. 293 of the Criminal Code banning polygamy serves no useful purpose and in any case is rarely prosecuted.

Instead, Canadian laws should be changed to better accommodate the problems of women in polygamous marriages, providing them clearer spousal support and inheritance rights.

Currently, there's a hodgepodge of legislation across the provinces, some of whom - Ontario, for example - give limited recognition to foreign polygamous marriages for the purposes of spousal support. Some jurisdictions provide no relief at all.

Chief author Martha Bailey says criminalizing polygamy, typically a marriage involving one man and several wives, serves no good purpose and prosecutions could do damage to the women and children in such relationships.

"Why criminalize the behaviour?" she said in an interview. "We don't criminalize adultery.

"In light of the fact that we have a fairly permissive society .n.n. why are we singling out that particular form of behaviour for criminalization?"

Instead, there are other laws available to deal with problems often associated with polygamous unions, which are not legally recognized as marriages in Canada.

"If there are problems such as child abuse, or spousal abuse, there are other criminal provisions or other laws dealing with those problems that certainly should be enforced," Bailey said.

The Justice Department project was prompted in part by an RCMP investigation into the religious community of Bountiful in Creston, B.C., where polygamy is practised openly.

The British Columbia government has long been considering whether to lay charges under Section 293.

But the project was also intended to provide the Liberal government with ammunition to help defend its same-sex marriage bill last spring.

Opponents claimed the bill, now law, was a slippery slope that would open the door to polygamy and even bestiality.

Another report for the project, also led by two Queen's University professors, dismisses the slippery-slope argument, saying that allowing same-sex marriages promotes equality while polygamous marriages are generally harmful to women's interests and would therefore promote inequality.

Liberal Justice Minister Irwin Cotler said he has seen only a summary of the research reports, but already rejects lifting the criminal ban on polygamy.

"At this point, the practice of polygamy, bigamy and incest are criminal offences in Canada and will continue to be," he said from Montreal.

"These reports will become part of the knowledge base on this issue and will be taken into account."

The Bailey report, consistent with other research for the project, also concludes the courts might well rule that Canada's law banning polygamy is a violation of Canada's constitutional guarantee of freedom of religion.

But Section 293 would survive such a challenge because the harm to women and children in many polygamous marriages is well documented - abuse, poverty, coercion, health problems - and the limit to religious freedom would be considered "reasonable," as allowed under Section 1 of the charter.

Although the Bountiful case raises immediate issues, Canada is also faced with a rising tide of immigration from Africa and the Middle East, where polygamy is legally and religiously sanctioned. Immigration officers can refuse entry to individuals practising polygamy.

Bailey said Canada should nevertheless offer some recognition to polygamous marriages that are legally valid in foreign countries to help protect women's rights here.

Another paper for the project, by the Alberta Civil Liberties Research Centre, urges British Columbia to proceed immediately with a prosecution in Bountiful.

"Based on the harms associated with polygamy as it is practised in Bountiful, there do not appear to be any alternatives to prosecution, however difficult it may be."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20060112 ... my_project

   



797 @ Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:17 pm

One wife is enough for me. :roll:

   



xerxes @ Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:44 pm

The reason polygamy (aka Mormon Hold-em) is illegal is because it is a relationship of exploitation.

In towns/areas that practice polygamy, girls/young women are given only a rudimentary education and are forced to conform to a rigidly patriarchal society. In more extreme cases (like what happened in Utah last year) young boys were expelled from the community because they werre seen as threats to the number of wives more senior members of the sect could potentially have.

The town of Bountiful, BC should shut down and the senior members jailed. Whoever wrote this report needs a good smack upside the head.

   



Blue_Nose @ Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:56 pm

xerxes xerxes:
In towns/areas that practice polygamy, girls/young women are given only a rudimentary education and are forced to conform to a rigidly patriarchal society. In more extreme cases (like what happened in Utah last year) young boys were expelled from the community because they werre seen as threats to the number of wives more senior members of the sect could potentially have.


Explain how polygamy is the cause of this...

While these acts in themselves are harmful to those involved, they're a product of the culture associated with polygamy - not the polygamy itself.

"Conservative" members of the society should realize polygamy has been the most predominant system of marriage in history; the concept of the "normal" family is relatively new.

   



xerxes @ Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:05 pm

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
xerxes xerxes:
In towns/areas that practice polygamy, girls/young women are given only a rudimentary education and are forced to conform to a rigidly patriarchal society. In more extreme cases (like what happened in Utah last year) young boys were expelled from the community because they werre seen as threats to the number of wives more senior members of the sect could potentially have.


Explain how polygamy is the cause of this...

While these acts in themselves are harmful to those involved, they're a product of the culture associated with polygamy - not the polygamy itself.

"Conservative" members of the society should realize polygamy has been the most predominant system of marriage in history; the concept of the "normal" family is relatively new.


I didn't say it was the cause. However, I would say that what I described is means by which the practice of polygamy is preserved. A system like the one found in bountiful could not be preserved if women were given the standard education girls recieve in normal society.

   



Blue_Nose @ Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:24 pm

Well, there are plenty of couples (see the swingers thread) that aren't monogamous who have healthy relationships with their partners/spouses... certainly more healthy than the "family person" who secretly cheats on their spouse.

I don't think it's fair to ban something just because we don't like the rest of the lifestyle of the people we see practicing it.

   



Dayseed @ Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:35 pm

My objection to polygamy stems from concerns over inheritance law and/or other considerations to a person's estate and/or spousal benefits. Imagine the poor insurance company that signs on hubby only to find out it has to dole out insurance to 5 wives and 15 kids as well.

Is it as easy as jacking their premiums sky-high?

   



ShepherdsDog @ Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:50 pm

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
xerxes xerxes:
In towns/areas that practice polygamy, girls/young women are given only a rudimentary education and are forced to conform to a rigidly patriarchal society. In more extreme cases (like what happened in Utah last year) young boys were expelled from the community because they werre seen as threats to the number of wives more senior members of the sect could potentially have.


Explain how polygamy is the cause of this...

While these acts in themselves are harmful to those involved, they're a product of the culture associated with polygamy - not the polygamy itself.

"Conservative" members of the society should realize polygamy has been the most predominant system of marriage in history; the concept of the "normal" family is relatively new.


Well said. My problem with polygamy is the fact that you would have multiple sets of in -laws. Grouping polygamy in with incest and bestiality is ridiculous. All most every society on earth has had a time where polygamy was the norm for those who could afford to practice it. However, while homosexual relationships have been tolerated by societies they have never been openly accepted.

The opponents of polygamy often cite abuse as a reason for disallowing the practice. Well, practioners of polygamy don't have the market cornered on spousal and child abuse. Adultry isn't illegal and the courts have ruled that swingers clubs aren't illegal or a danger to the fabric of society, yet both involve spouses having 'relationships' with others who aren't their spouse. Once upon a time, not so long ago, homosexuality was a crime and listed as a form of mental illness. Society has been asked to embrace their lifestyle and see it as an expression of love between two consenting adults. The laws of the land were amended to make it so. Why is it we can be asked to adultry, orgies and legalized homosexual unions as not harmful to our society and yet we villify those who would practise
$1:
the most predominant system of marriage in history;
?? Women in polygamous relationships have every freedom and protection, under our laws, that women have in homosexual or monogamous realtionships. Enforcement is all that is required.

   



fatbasturd @ Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:55 pm

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
xerxes xerxes:
In towns/areas that practice polygamy, girls/young women are given only a rudimentary education and are forced to conform to a rigidly patriarchal society. In more extreme cases (like what happened in Utah last year) young boys were expelled from the community because they werre seen as threats to the number of wives more senior members of the sect could potentially have.


Explain how polygamy is the cause of this...

While these acts in themselves are harmful to those involved, they're a product of the culture associated with polygamy - not the polygamy itself.

"Conservative" members of the society should realize polygamy has been the most predominant system of marriage in history; the concept of the "normal" family is relatively new.


Well said. My problem with polygamy is the fact that you would have multiple sets of in -laws. Grouping polygamy in with incest and bestiality is ridiculous. All most every society on earth has had a time where polygamy was the norm for those who could afford to practice it. However, while homosexual relationships have been tolerated by societies they have never been openly accepted.

The opponents of polygamy often cite abuse as a reason for disallowing the practice. Well, practioners of polygamy don't have the market cornered on spousal and child abuse. Adultry isn't illegal and the courts have ruled that swingers clubs aren't illegal or a danger to the fabric of society, yet both involve spouses having 'relationships' with others who aren't their spouse. Once upon a time, not so long ago, homosexuality was a crime and listed as a form of mental illness. Society has been asked to embrace their lifestyle and see it as an expression of love between two consenting adults. The laws of the land were amended to make it so. Why is it we can be asked to adultry, orgies and legalized homosexual unions as not harmful to our society and yet we villify those who would practise
$1:
the most predominant system of marriage in history;
?? Women in polygamous relationships have every freedom and protection, under our laws, that women have in homosexual or monogamous realtionships. Enforcement is all that is required.
$1:
However, while homosexual relationships have been tolerated by societies they have never been openly accepted
The romans excepted it pretty openly and the greeks weren't to worried about what anyone else thought either

   



Blue_Nose @ Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:05 pm

Dayseed Dayseed:
My objection to polygamy stems from concerns over inheritance law and/or other considerations to a person's estate and/or spousal benefits. Imagine the poor insurance company that signs on hubby only to find out it has to dole out insurance to 5 wives and 15 kids as well.

Is it as easy as jacking their premiums sky-high?


As far as the person's estate, I would say that since the current system involves an initial payment to the spouse ($50000 here, if I remember correctly) and the rest is divided among the immediate family (including the spouse). I'm not sure if that's how it works in other provinces, but I would say that the $50000 would be divided among the X numbers of wifes, and the rest be divided as before.

As for insurance, do they increase premiums for families with a lot of children?

   



Thematic-Device @ Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:19 pm

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Well said. My problem with polygamy is the fact that you would have multiple sets of in -laws. Grouping polygamy in with incest and bestiality is ridiculous. All most every society on earth has had a time where polygamy was the norm for those who could afford to practice it. However, while homosexual relationships have been tolerated by societies they have never been openly accepted.


Not true, the romans and the greeks would be the most obvious examples of this.

   



Blue_Nose @ Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:22 pm

Weren't Spartan soldiers encouraged to have a bum buddy?

   



Tman1 @ Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:35 pm

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
Weren't Spartan soldiers encouraged to have a bum buddy?

In Spartan society, the most important issue was raising sons to become soldiers. Along with this polygamy issue, wives were actually encouraged to have children with other men and vice versa. Called it a form of socialism, it's for the good of the city. As for homosexual relationships, this was otherwise called Pederasty, a social practice common throughout Greece, was equally so in Sparta. The Spartans believed that encouraging the older, accomplished men of the city to have relations with the youths was conductive to their education. Everybody here is correct that homosexual relationships were more open in Greek and Roman societies and considered a pathway towards manhood.

   



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