Should Gideon be told to piss off?
hamiltonguyo @ Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:57 pm
$1:
Bibles offered to public schools raise row
B.C. mother asks trustees to reconsider distribution among pupils in 'neutral zone'
PETTI FONG
From Tuesday's Globe and Mail
VANCOUVER — Renate Gepraegs thought she had stepped back in time when she opened her son's public-school newsletter and read a notice from the Gideon Society about free Bibles.
"I thought schools were neutral zones," said the 36-year-old graduate student and mother of a Grade 1 pupil. "I thought schools were secular, and organized religions didn't have a place in public schools."
Ms. Gepraegs, who said she does not belong to any specific religion, appeared before Richmond school trustees last month to ask them to reconsider their policy of Bible distribution. Other parents and representatives of other religions are also challenging the practice.
For 60 years, the Gideons, a lay association of Christians, have given Bibles to Grade 5 pupils across Canada through public schools.
School superintendent Bruce Beairsto said the board began to rethink the issue of distributing Bibles to every Grade 5 student in the district in the 1960s, when Richmond began to become a more diverse and multicultural community. Now, nearly 60 per cent of Richmond residents are of Chinese or South Asian descent.
The Richmond board's policy is to place a notice in school newsletters, and Grade 5 pupils may take a form home for their parents to sign if they want a Gideon Bible. The children return the form to the school, which relays the request to the Gideons, who bring the Bibles to the schools.
The Gideons no longer automatically bring Bibles to schools across the country every year, but wait for requests. Every year, each of the 38 elementary schools in Richmond receives one or two requests for Bibles, Mr. Beairsto said.
"We don't proselytize, of course. This is a vexing issue that we've wrestled with as to what multiculturalism means," Mr. Beairsto said. "If someone wanted to distribute the Koran the same way, we would be quite happy to do it in an equitable way."
Mr. Beairsto said some school trustees raised concerns at the meeting Ms. Gepraegs attended about what would happen if a less mainstream religion, such as the Wiccans, also requested that their materials be distributed.
"If one of those odd things come up, we will talk to our parent groups and try to share a collective wisdom," he said yesterday.
Richmond parent Abdullah Ali, who has a daughter in Grade 9, attended the school board meeting with Ms. Gepraegs in March. It's not appropriate, said Mr. Ali, who is Muslim, for anyone in the school to hand out religious books.
"The better process would be if these books can be placed in the library and any child who wants a copy can get one," Mr. Ali said. "I'm not knocking the policy, but I am saying it has to be inclusive and provide an equal playing field for everyone."
Because the board is not backing off its policy, Mr. Ali said he's securing a supply of Korans for distribution to students who request them.
Neither the Surrey nor the Vancouver school boards distribute Gideon Bibles to students.
The issue has divided school boards across the country. The Ottawa-Carleton school board stopped distributing Bibles in 2001, but last year the Gideons organization asked it to reconsider.
The American Civil Liberties Union sued a Missouri school district last month for allowing Gideons to distribute Bibles. The school board there had voted 4-3 in favour of allowing the practice to continue after parents raised concerns.
The Gideons distribute more than 60 million Bibles worldwide each year to hospitals, hotels, prisons and schools.
Executive director Paul Mercer of Gideons International in Canada said that throughout Canada, 250,000 to 300,000 Bibles a year are requested by students. Years ago, schools and the Gideons decided Grade 5 was the appropriate age to receive the Bible, he said.
"It's been done since the mid-1940s, and the offer is made. Some can say no and some can say, 'we want one,' " Mr. Mercer said. "We just simply believe that everybody should have the opportunity of owning a Bible."
Canadian Jewish Congress Pacific region chairman Mark Weintraub said school boards have a legal obligation to not distribute the Bibles.
"We are certainly not against any religious denomination disseminating sacred texts," Mr. Weintraub said. "But in a society that supports a public school system and has people of many faiths and children from families that do not believe in any particular faith, it's vital the school system not be the vehicle for any particular denomination."
B.C. Civil Liberties president Jason Gratl said he was surprised to learn that Bibles are still being distributed.
"It carries no threat of undermining the secularism of our school system, but it's a practice that ought to be quietly ended," he said yesterday.
Rev. Gary Simpson of the Broadway Church in Chilliwack, which has Gideons among its members, said when he was in Grade 5 in the late 1960s, Bibles were automatically distributed, requested or not.
"Obviously, the Gideons are interested in conversion, otherwise they wouldn't be doing this. They hope the Bible can help kids in need and they believe God can change someone's life," Mr. Simpson said.
"But I'm not sure it's right to do it in a public school system. I would be willing to shut the whole supply off, if it means our kids are going to be bombarded with 50 options. My Bible doesn't need to be out there if that's the case."
B.C. mother asks trustees to reconsider distribution among pupils in 'neutral zone'
PETTI FONG
From Tuesday's Globe and Mail
VANCOUVER — Renate Gepraegs thought she had stepped back in time when she opened her son's public-school newsletter and read a notice from the Gideon Society about free Bibles.
"I thought schools were neutral zones," said the 36-year-old graduate student and mother of a Grade 1 pupil. "I thought schools were secular, and organized religions didn't have a place in public schools."
Ms. Gepraegs, who said she does not belong to any specific religion, appeared before Richmond school trustees last month to ask them to reconsider their policy of Bible distribution. Other parents and representatives of other religions are also challenging the practice.
For 60 years, the Gideons, a lay association of Christians, have given Bibles to Grade 5 pupils across Canada through public schools.
School superintendent Bruce Beairsto said the board began to rethink the issue of distributing Bibles to every Grade 5 student in the district in the 1960s, when Richmond began to become a more diverse and multicultural community. Now, nearly 60 per cent of Richmond residents are of Chinese or South Asian descent.
The Richmond board's policy is to place a notice in school newsletters, and Grade 5 pupils may take a form home for their parents to sign if they want a Gideon Bible. The children return the form to the school, which relays the request to the Gideons, who bring the Bibles to the schools.
The Gideons no longer automatically bring Bibles to schools across the country every year, but wait for requests. Every year, each of the 38 elementary schools in Richmond receives one or two requests for Bibles, Mr. Beairsto said.
"We don't proselytize, of course. This is a vexing issue that we've wrestled with as to what multiculturalism means," Mr. Beairsto said. "If someone wanted to distribute the Koran the same way, we would be quite happy to do it in an equitable way."
Mr. Beairsto said some school trustees raised concerns at the meeting Ms. Gepraegs attended about what would happen if a less mainstream religion, such as the Wiccans, also requested that their materials be distributed.
"If one of those odd things come up, we will talk to our parent groups and try to share a collective wisdom," he said yesterday.
Richmond parent Abdullah Ali, who has a daughter in Grade 9, attended the school board meeting with Ms. Gepraegs in March. It's not appropriate, said Mr. Ali, who is Muslim, for anyone in the school to hand out religious books.
"The better process would be if these books can be placed in the library and any child who wants a copy can get one," Mr. Ali said. "I'm not knocking the policy, but I am saying it has to be inclusive and provide an equal playing field for everyone."
Because the board is not backing off its policy, Mr. Ali said he's securing a supply of Korans for distribution to students who request them.
Neither the Surrey nor the Vancouver school boards distribute Gideon Bibles to students.
The issue has divided school boards across the country. The Ottawa-Carleton school board stopped distributing Bibles in 2001, but last year the Gideons organization asked it to reconsider.
The American Civil Liberties Union sued a Missouri school district last month for allowing Gideons to distribute Bibles. The school board there had voted 4-3 in favour of allowing the practice to continue after parents raised concerns.
The Gideons distribute more than 60 million Bibles worldwide each year to hospitals, hotels, prisons and schools.
Executive director Paul Mercer of Gideons International in Canada said that throughout Canada, 250,000 to 300,000 Bibles a year are requested by students. Years ago, schools and the Gideons decided Grade 5 was the appropriate age to receive the Bible, he said.
"It's been done since the mid-1940s, and the offer is made. Some can say no and some can say, 'we want one,' " Mr. Mercer said. "We just simply believe that everybody should have the opportunity of owning a Bible."
Canadian Jewish Congress Pacific region chairman Mark Weintraub said school boards have a legal obligation to not distribute the Bibles.
"We are certainly not against any religious denomination disseminating sacred texts," Mr. Weintraub said. "But in a society that supports a public school system and has people of many faiths and children from families that do not believe in any particular faith, it's vital the school system not be the vehicle for any particular denomination."
B.C. Civil Liberties president Jason Gratl said he was surprised to learn that Bibles are still being distributed.
"It carries no threat of undermining the secularism of our school system, but it's a practice that ought to be quietly ended," he said yesterday.
Rev. Gary Simpson of the Broadway Church in Chilliwack, which has Gideons among its members, said when he was in Grade 5 in the late 1960s, Bibles were automatically distributed, requested or not.
"Obviously, the Gideons are interested in conversion, otherwise they wouldn't be doing this. They hope the Bible can help kids in need and they believe God can change someone's life," Mr. Simpson said.
"But I'm not sure it's right to do it in a public school system. I would be willing to shut the whole supply off, if it means our kids are going to be bombarded with 50 options. My Bible doesn't need to be out there if that's the case."
OK so first I think this article is biased It contains numerous attacks on the item at hand but yet only interviews one supporter.
Secondly Whats wrong with having the bible availible especially with parental permission. If a kid who is not part of a religion is offered his bible and his parents say sure why not, what is the problem? The school board said it would allow any organized religion the same rights.. So why do these other groups complain rather than just distribute their own literature in the same way?
I would honestly like to see Christianity Islam and Judiasm on the rise as practicing members of religion I think would be more encouraged to stay of drugs and stay out of trouble and less likely to be promiscous and go and get other kids pregnant.
Are we to ban Christian groups from buying advertising space on the CBC because letting them do that would be a violation of church and state?
Are we going to ban christian charities because people they help might feel like checking christianity out?
Secular Humanists amaze me with their Christianophobic nonsense...
Unfourtunately for the other relgions when Christianity is outlawed they'll be next...
ridenrain @ Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:16 pm
Hell no. We can't have religion in our schools.
Kids can get their own out of the hotel room when their legally working as 14 year old prostitutes.
All hail big Liberal government.
Tman1 @ Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:20 pm
That's what Catholic schools are for. You want to tote a bible around? Go to them instead of public schools.
hamiltonguyo @ Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:22 pm
Tote a bible?
Is allowing kids access to a bible so dreadfull?
Some of the literature I have read at school if it was written agaisnt any religion but christianity would be considered hate literature, and then you say that children should be protected from an alternative view?
Tman1 @ Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:27 pm
Why the need for Catholic schools then? Is this not their way of trying to convert little kids?
I remember back in elementary school I was given a few bibles a year....
Arctic_Menace @ Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:29 pm
ridenrain ridenrain:
Hell no. We can't have religion in our schools.
Kids can get their own out of the hotel room when their legally working as 14 year old prostitutes.
All hail big Liberal government.
Kids can get their own out of the hotel room when their legally working as 14 year old prostitutes.
All hail big Liberal government.
I have yet to see you or MCB make a post that doesn't involve the Libs or how we're apparently all crazy and ruining society.........
xerxes @ Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:36 pm
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
ridenrain ridenrain:
Hell no. We can't have religion in our schools.
Kids can get their own out of the hotel room when their legally working as 14 year old prostitutes.
All hail big Liberal government.
Kids can get their own out of the hotel room when their legally working as 14 year old prostitutes.
All hail big Liberal government.
I have yet to see you or MCB make a post that doesn't involve the Libs or how we're apparently all crazy and ruining society.........
That's becusae Cons always need a strawman to attack, reality notwithstanding.
hamiltonguyo @ Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:37 pm
Tman1 Tman1:
Why the need for Catholic schools then? Is this not their way of trying to convert little kids?
I remember back in elementary school I was given a few bibles a year....
I remember back in elementary school I was given a few bibles a year....
Catholic schools were kept to appease the quebeqoius
if I had my way there would be one school system and everyone would have to take either a religion of their choice, which would include units on toleration of other religions and on similarities between your religion and another
or a world religions course
hamiltonguyo @ Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:38 pm
xerxes xerxes:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
ridenrain ridenrain:
Hell no. We can't have religion in our schools.
Kids can get their own out of the hotel room when their legally working as 14 year old prostitutes.
All hail big Liberal government.
Kids can get their own out of the hotel room when their legally working as 14 year old prostitutes.
All hail big Liberal government.
I have yet to see you or MCB make a post that doesn't involve the Libs or how we're apparently all crazy and ruining society.........
That's becusae Cons always need a strawman to attack, reality notwithstanding.
no because somehow those damn lefties dosn't sound as good as those damn lieberals
ridenrain @ Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:40 pm
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
ridenrain ridenrain:
Hell no. We can't have religion in our schools.
Kids can get their own out of the hotel room when their legally working as 14 year old prostitutes.
All hail big Liberal government.
Kids can get their own out of the hotel room when their legally working as 14 year old prostitutes.
All hail big Liberal government.
I have yet to see you or MCB make a post that doesn't involve the Libs or how we're apparently all crazy and ruining society.........
This is a hold over from the sex at 14-16 thread.
My advert for the bike run in June didn't mention them.
I did a quick revue of "worlds fastest indian" and no liberals were harmed.
On this issue, I'm suprised they let them distribute bibles in school.
I can't say it's a bad thing but it opens a door that we really don't need.
If they provide them to kids who want them, that's fine though.
Tman1 @ Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:42 pm
hamiltonguyo hamiltonguyo:
Catholic schools were kept to appease the quebeqoius
if I had my way there would be one school system and everyone would have to take either a religion of their choice, which would include units on toleration of other religions and on similarities between your religion and another
or a world religions course
if I had my way there would be one school system and everyone would have to take either a religion of their choice, which would include units on toleration of other religions and on similarities between your religion and another
or a world religions course
$1:
Catholic schools were kept to appease the quebeqoius
No they weren't. Catholic schools were created to "appease" Christians who feel their children should be educated in a religious school because ----insert topic here---
$1:
if I had my way there would be one school system and everyone would have to take either a religion of their choice, which would include units on toleration of other religions and on similarities between your religion and another
Thank the almighty you won't have your way. If we had your way, it would also breach peoples freedoms and rights the least of which for people who choose not to follow a particular religion nor wish to study it. Thus we get a separation of Christian schools and public. Ned Flanders would be proud.....insert Simpsons episode here---
Arctic_Menace @ Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:42 pm
Attention all Liberals(aka, most people with an ounce of sense.some cons are included too.), A Stephen Harper supporter was on the radio this morning. She said how she loves Harper and she understands why Harper has this $1200 a year plan for childcare. She says it's because Harper is the only Political party leader who has kids.
Okay, lady, whatever you say.......
While Harper is the only one, and has kids to take care, he has his staff and his wife stays at home. So he is the last person to realise that $100 bucks a month is nowhere near enough to pay for childcare.
Arctic_Menace @ Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:44 pm
hamiltonguyo hamiltonguyo:
Tman1 Tman1:
Why the need for Catholic schools then? Is this not their way of trying to convert little kids?
I remember back in elementary school I was given a few bibles a year....
I remember back in elementary school I was given a few bibles a year....
Catholic schools were kept to appease the quebeqoius
if I had my way there would be one school system and everyone would have to take either a religion of their choice, which would include units on toleration of other religions and on similarities between your religion and another
or a world religions course
Freedom is slapping his forehead right now...........
xerxes @ Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:45 pm
ridenrain ridenrain:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
ridenrain ridenrain:
Hell no. We can't have religion in our schools.
Kids can get their own out of the hotel room when their legally working as 14 year old prostitutes.
All hail big Liberal government.
Kids can get their own out of the hotel room when their legally working as 14 year old prostitutes.
All hail big Liberal government.
I have yet to see you or MCB make a post that doesn't involve the Libs or how we're apparently all crazy and ruining society.........
This is a hold over from the sex at 14-16 thread.
My advert for the bike run in June didn't mention them.
I did a quick revue of "worlds fastest indian" and no liberals were harmed.
On this issue, I'm suprised they let them distribute bibles in school.
I can't say it's a bad thing but it opens a door that we really don't need.
If they provide them to kids who want them, that's fine though.
I think I'm actually going to have to agree with you on this one. If kids want one, Gideon's should be allowed to provide them. And while I'm not particularily comfortable with the fact that they're doing it through schools, it's not the worst thing in the world by a long shot.
Elvis @ Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:57 pm
Bible paper is great to roll joint