The great Holiday tree debate.
Drunk Canuck @ Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:04 pm
Do they know it's Christmas? They'd better
Nova Scotia town bans use of other names
By JANE ARMSTRONG
Friday, December 2, 2005 Page A12
HALIFAX -- It's no longer the holiday season in Oxford, N.S. It's Christmas, period, according to a proclamation passed this week by town councillors.
Still smarting from a much-publicized bureaucratic bid to rename a famous Nova Scotia Christmas tree a "holiday" tree, leaders in this town of 1,300 say they're sick of state-sanctioned attempts to secularize the Christian holiday.
Earlier this week, councillors passed a motion banning the use of other names to describe Christmas, chief among them "holiday," which is a huge pet peeve of Mayor Lloyd Jenkins.
"We're getting fed up with the term," Mr. Jenkins said in an interview. "And the holiday tree was just the climax."
Last month, city officials in Boston described the annual Christmas tree gift it receives from Nova Scotia as a "holiday tree." The phrase was used in official city press releases and rankled many Christian traditionalists on both sides of the border. The conservative evangelical Jerry Falwell threatened to sue the city. And the Nova Scotia man who chopped down the tree was so angry he asked for it back.
Eventually, the mayor of Boston stepped in to smooth the ruckus, saying publicly that he considered the gift to be a Christmas tree.
But the incident touched a nerve among many Nova Scotians. In Oxford -- known locally as the wild-blueberry capital of Canada -- the population is almost entirely Christian, Mr. Jenkins said. Many residents felt Christmas was being stripped of its essential meaning, which is a celebration of the birth of Christ.
The mayor stressed that the pro-Christmas proclamation is not law and no penalties will be meted out to well-wishers who say "happy holidays." The move, he said, was symbolic.
However, a Jewish leader said he is troubled by the decision. No matter how well intentioned, the Oxford decree fosters intolerance, said Jon Goldberg, executive director of the Atlantic Jewish Council.
Phrases like "happy holidays" originated as a gesture of respect to non-Christians in a multicultural society during the Christian holiday season, he said.
"When I hear that a municipally elected body is getting involved in passing legislation on sectarian issues in 2005, as a member of a Jewish community, it sort of raises my alert system," Mr. Goldberg said.
"First of all, it doesn't recognize the multicultural nature of our society," he said.
"What's the next step? We suggest everyone go to church? And then the next thing is suggesting that people don't wear head coverings or medallions, like they passed in France.
"That's not Canadian. That's where my objection is. Not to Christmas."
However, the Oxford mayor said he's received dozens of letters of support from across Canada and even the United States. Some said they would press their municipal leaders to follow Oxford's example.
Mr. Jenkins stressed that he hopes Oxford's proclamation doesn't offend non-Christians.
Good lord every year the same thing. Why is it always jewish groups that are offended by Christmas? I never hear a peep out of any other minority complain about Christmas in this country except jewish groups complaining we are trying to convert the rest of Canada to Christianity.
I expect the annual Toronto tree hoopla to start up any time now.
Well guess what. Canada was founded by, and on Christian principals. If you don't like, then kindly leave.
MaelstromRider @ Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:09 pm
Mr Goldberg Mr Goldberg:
However, a Jewish leader said he is troubled by the decision. No matter how well intentioned, the Oxford decree fosters intolerance, said Jon Goldberg, executive director of the Atlantic Jewish Council.
Phrases like "happy holidays" originated as a gesture of respect to non-Christians in a multicultural society during the Christian holiday season, he said.
"When I hear that a municipally elected body is getting involved in passing legislation on sectarian issues in 2005, as a member of a Jewish community, it sort of raises my alert system," Mr. Goldberg said.
"First of all, it doesn't recognize the multicultural nature of our society," he said.
"What's the next step? We suggest everyone go to church? And then the next thing is suggesting that people don't wear head coverings or medallions, like they passed in France.
"That's not Canadian. That's where my objection is. Not to Christmas."
Phrases like "happy holidays" originated as a gesture of respect to non-Christians in a multicultural society during the Christian holiday season, he said.
"When I hear that a municipally elected body is getting involved in passing legislation on sectarian issues in 2005, as a member of a Jewish community, it sort of raises my alert system," Mr. Goldberg said.
"First of all, it doesn't recognize the multicultural nature of our society," he said.
"What's the next step? We suggest everyone go to church? And then the next thing is suggesting that people don't wear head coverings or medallions, like they passed in France.
"That's not Canadian. That's where my objection is. Not to Christmas."
Tolerance.
Drunk Canuck Drunk Canuck:
Good lord every year the same thing. Why is it always jewish groups that are offended by Christmas? I never hear a peep out of any other minority complain about Christmas in this country except jewish groups complaining we are trying to convert the rest of Canada to Christianity.
I expect the annual Toronto tree hoopla to start up any time now.
Well guess what. Canada was founded by, and on Christian principals. If you don't like, then kindly leave.
I expect the annual Toronto tree hoopla to start up any time now.
Well guess what. Canada was founded by, and on Christian principals. If you don't like, then kindly leave.
Intolerance.
xerxes @ Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:11 pm
You know, I don't remember much about reading about Christmas trees in the Bible. I'm qute sure I didn't read a verse that went "thou shalt take a tree and decorate it with gaudy ornaments on the day of your Lord's birth."
Fact is, that the Christmas tree was borrowed from other pagan rituals to make the new Christianity more appealing. Not to mention, there is no mention of when Christ was actually born. December 25 was chosen as the date by a Roman emperor because it was the same day as the Feast of Saturn and it needed to be replced with a Christian holiday.
Blue_Nose @ Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:23 pm
It's a Christmas tree not a Holiday tree - it's a Menorah, not a holiday candle holder.
Now we're even.
ShepherdsDog @ Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:26 pm
In the spirit of inclusion that is sweeping the month of December, we should lobby all synagogues to only refer to their minorahs as festive candelabaras. They also need to add three extra place holders to reflect the 12 days of Christmas, to avoid offending any Messianic Jews. While we're at it, Moslems and Jews can no longer express a dislike of pork products and must now offer them in their butcher shops(Russian Jews do so already) in the spirit of inclusiveness.
[align=center]Festive Candelabara for Jewish solstice festival[/align]
MaelstromRider @ Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:34 pm
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
In the spirit of inclusion that is sweeping the month of December, we should lobby all synagogues to only refer to their minorahs as festive candelabaras. They also need to add three extra place holders to reflect the 12 days of Christmas, to avoid offending any Messianic Jews. While we're at it, Moslems and Jews can no longer express a dislike of pork products and must now offer them in their butcher shops(Russian Jews do so already) in the spirit of inclusiveness.
Alternatively, the intolerant jerks that actually banned the right to call it a 'holiday tree' can repeal the unconsitutional bylaw and we can all get on with life.
Regardless of what the thing is actually called, they can call it whatever they choose. Banning the right to do so is as bad as banning the right to religious expression altogether.
Festivus for the rest of us!
Blue_Nose @ Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:35 pm
It's funny that Christmas is considered a religious celebration by more Jews and Muslims than it is by Christians.
ridenrain @ Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:43 pm
I would rather have not sent them the tree because it would just inflame their Softwood lumber lobby groups.
Sorry. Maybe you can get a palm tree in Iraq?
Jaime_Souviens @ Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:46 pm
Intolerance? Absolutely not. It is not intolerant. For a Christian to say he wants to celebrate Christmas is not intolerant.
Why does a Christian have to refuse to name his own holidays when all the other religions can celebrate theirs, and do so by name?
For a town to have a Christmas tree is not exclusive or intolerant. Having something with one cultural/religious connotation does not exclude, denigrate or deny other cultures or religions.
Jaime_Souviens @ Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:47 pm
Probably a majority of Jews in Canada and America have Christmas trees at home nowadays, anyway.
MustangJay @ Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:11 am
Okay, well who's to say the term "Happy HOlidays" doesn't offend Christians by believe December 25th represents more then just a paid day off work. If Canada is to be a multicultural society, doesn't it make sense to INCLUDE Christianity? Fox routinely plays "Happy Chanukah" messages on their TV stations, so why is it Christians always are the ones making sacrifices when it comes to political correctness? I have many friends of various religions, none of whom ever mentioned finding Christmas Trees offensive, If politicans are that paranoyd with religious association, why not just make the inevitable leap to communist-style banishment of ALL religion and be done with it!
Give me a break!
EyeBrock @ Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:31 am
Exactly, all this "holiday" stuff is bollocks. It's Christmas. Hanukkah is a much less important ‘holiday’ to Judaism than Christmas is to Christianity. One of my Jewish mates says it has the same status as maybe Shrove Tuesday does in the Christian calendar.
This is just political correctness for PC sake.
It’s Christmas , not the ‘holiday’ season. I’m all for people from other religions joining in, but it is a Christian celebration, it’s not just Santa and Christmas trees.
I didn’t try to rename stuff at the several Eid El-Fitr shindigs I’ve been to. Why should people rename aspects of our culture and religion. True the Christmas tree wasn’t in the bible, but hey, it’s a tradition imported from Germany that is an icon of the Christmas season, and has been so for 150 years.
We have lost so much of our western, Christian culture to the tyranny of PC. It’s time it ended.
It’s not about tolerance or intolerance, it’s about a good chunk of the population of this country’s beliefs and culture, to disregard this aspect of Canadian and western culture is to side line our views, and you wonder why we are pissed off!?
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to people from all cultures and religions from us, the side lined Christians.
Happy Hanukkah and Merry Kwanza!
PS I dig the menorah renamed the festive candle holder! That about sums it all up!
Mustang1 @ Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:34 am
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Exactly, all this "holiday" stuff is bollocks. It's Christmas. Hanukkah is a much less important ‘holiday’ to Judaism than Christmas is to Christianity. One of my Jewish mates says it has the same status as maybe Shrove Tuesday does in the Christian calendar.
This is just political correctness for PC sake.
It’s Christmas , not the ‘holiday’ season. I’m all for people from other religions joining in, but it is a Christian celebration, it’s not just Santa and Christmas trees.
I didn’t try to rename stuff at the several Eid El-Fitr shindigs I’ve been to. Why should people rename aspects of our culture and religion. True the Christmas tree wasn’t in the bible, but hey, it’s a tradition imported from Germany that is an icon of the Christmas season, and has been so for 150 years.
We have lost so much of our western, Christian culture to the tyranny of PC. It’s time it ended.
It’s not about tolerance or intolerance, it’s about a good chunk of the population of this country’s beliefs and culture, to disregard this aspect of Canadian and western culture is to side line our views, and you wonder why we are pissed off!?
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to people from all cultures and religions from us, the side lined Christians.
Happy Hanukkah and Merry Kwanza!
PS I dig the menorah renamed the festive candle holder! That about sums it all up!
This is just political correctness for PC sake.
It’s Christmas , not the ‘holiday’ season. I’m all for people from other religions joining in, but it is a Christian celebration, it’s not just Santa and Christmas trees.
I didn’t try to rename stuff at the several Eid El-Fitr shindigs I’ve been to. Why should people rename aspects of our culture and religion. True the Christmas tree wasn’t in the bible, but hey, it’s a tradition imported from Germany that is an icon of the Christmas season, and has been so for 150 years.
We have lost so much of our western, Christian culture to the tyranny of PC. It’s time it ended.
It’s not about tolerance or intolerance, it’s about a good chunk of the population of this country’s beliefs and culture, to disregard this aspect of Canadian and western culture is to side line our views, and you wonder why we are pissed off!?
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to people from all cultures and religions from us, the side lined Christians.
Happy Hanukkah and Merry Kwanza!
PS I dig the menorah renamed the festive candle holder! That about sums it all up!
Well put.
Blue_Nose @ Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:37 am
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
It’s Christmas , not the ‘holiday’ season. I’m all for people from other religions joining in, but it is a Christian celebration, it’s not just Santa and Christmas trees.
You're right, Christmas is also family and friends and good food and good times. Maybe it's a Christian celebration for you, but for the majority of Canadians, it isn't.
EyeBrock @ Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:39 am
You are not a Christian then BN, or any of your family that celebrate Christmas?