[QUOTE BY= Zeeboo] Simply put run for office yourself.<br /> <br /> That's what I am doing in the next federal election. I already have my bid lined up and am running as a green party candidate in my riding.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> I will be voting for the NDP. That is how Canada will be saved. They are the only alternative that stands a chance of getting elected. It doesn't seem like it right now but during an election people are actually tuned in and I personally believe that Jack Layton will run a campaign on the fact that we are losing this entire country because people like Martin and Harper want us to be 100% american. That is the only way his numbers will go up. Dramatically up.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Zeeboo]If you are anywhere near as disgusted as I am with the state of politics in this country you should do the same. Our current "leaders" are selling us out. They have turned into an unaccountable oligarchy that needs to be stopped.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> I'm extremly disgusted with our politicians. Last election I obviously voted for the NDP because we have zero social programs in this country all while Martin is telling us how great we have it this country. (This coming from a man with 250 million dollars in his bank account!) Our current "leaders" are selling us out but not Jack Layton. Find me one time they've supported deep intergration with the united states or missile defense. While both Stephen and Paul have no back bone when it comes to dealing with the americans when it comes to softwood lumber Jack Layton is actually publicly saying to stop sending them oil till they except our lumber without tariffs.<br /> <br /> <br /> Voting green did what last election? Nothing much. The only way they will have a voice is with proportional representation and the only party working for is the NDP.

   

Zeeboo says, 'I'm running for the green party, not because I agree with their policies, but because we need another voice and another choice or we are going to lose everything including our liberty.'<br /> <br /> This is exactly the problem I see with candidates using a party to fund their campaign, but not believing in the party platform, your statment by itself is a confirmation for me that we have a problem in this country. When I read the Green Party website, I see that they plan to get rid of all corporate taxes, which would leave working Canadians holding the bag, paying for their clean ups instead of social programs. Do you agree with that? If not are you prepared to tell the electorate you are asking them to vote green, but you don't agree with their policies? <br /> <br /> If you don't agree with the policies, then you are lying to the public, haven't we all had enough of that kind of campaigning? You can be fed up, just like the rest, but if you can't find a party that stands for what you believe, then run independant. I am tired of candidates winning their riding to get their name on the ballot, and then doing nothing to educate themselves, or understand the issues. People should be voting for you because you will be their voice, and if they believe you represent a certain platform and you don't, that is really sad! <br /> <br /> In the interest of real change and respect for democracy and the electorate, I would ask you to consider what you are doing. You have ranted on about the corruption and changes needed, and yet you are advocating much the same thing. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/frown.gif' alt='Frown'> <br /> <br /> Forgive my bluntness, but your statement is a direct reflection of what is wrong in this system.

   

[QUOTE]I'm running for the green party, not because I agree with their policies, but because we need another voice and another choice or we are going to lose everything including our liberty.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> This is what is great about the green party... We respect diversity and other ideas unlike other parties like the NDP for example when it makes it's member vote for the same sex marriage bill. Now I am for same sex marriage (although I am against all forms of state sanction marriage) but I will not force my view upon someone.<br /> <br /> Now I think Jack Layton is a good leader for the NDP but the idea that we need to increase taxes or any of that crap is just plain stupid.<br /> <br /> I am glad Layton is speaking up about this but it is simply his way of gaining more support. similar to his appearance on pot tv before the last election. He isn't gonna stop anything because if he was gonna do it he would have done it by now. He isn't advocating for deeper integration but he isn't going against it. He is saying that we should simply push back which I agree with but under the system we are in right now it's like vern troy boxing mike tyson WE WILL LOSE. We need to change the game entirely.<br /> <br /> As for your comments Whelan costen... You ran for the NDP in 2004 but have jumped ship and switched parties to CAP then accuse me of lying to the public about my political leanings... What the hell were you doing last election? I said I don't agree with their policies like the reduced corporate tax (which you pointed to as being a bad policy which I agree with... should I leave a party for not agreeing with everything the leaders say?) but what I agree with above and beyond all else is that our enviroment is the single most important issue, above beyond even our liberties, which is a close second for me. <br /> <br /> Secondly YOU'RE STATEMENT IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH CANADIAN POLITICS AND POLITICS IN GENERAL. It's the pot calling the kettle black. You go off on baseless personal attacks about how educated I am, which is nice and elitest of you, but I'm not going to call you an under educated idiot for thinking that creating some social welfare state where people must rely on their government to command their lives for them is a good thing. I would prefer to skip the middle man and have people support themself not have big brother tell them what to do, eat, think and feel. You see the real problem with our system is the consolidation of power be it financial elites or government elites. These two groups are almost one and the same now. That is the issue not some BS left right deal but are you for freedom or tyranny. That is what matters. Getting rid of all taxes, including corporate tax, should be the over all goal of a government (even though it is a near impossible one) not taxing the crap out of people because the government knows what's best because all the people are idiots. A governments goal should be to fix the problems so it never has to deal with them again just as a doctors job should be to prevent illness and cure diseases rather than simply continually treat people for the rest of their lives. <br /> IF we don't need police because no crimes are being committed I say that is a good thing.<br /> <br /> here are the main points of my personal platform please feel free to disagree with it or what ever if you are correct you will convince me. Yes I am a flip flopper because being human I am not perfect and am capable of being wrong. I admit this I also admit tthat the last person who wants to be wrong about an issue is myself so please argue and convince me. Or better yet call me a liar for not going as an independant because disagreeing with any of your parties policies must be wrong and you shouldn't try to change it...<br /> <br /> 1. full decriminalization of marijuana including distribution, production, and possesion. Kids (persons under 18 will get fined for possesion of this... this will improve our society in the following ways... <br /> another several billion dollars in taxable income. <br /> reducing the income of criminal orginizations like the hells angels and mafia (or if they keep making it maybe a few of them will become legitimate business owners... I really doubt these guys like having to look over their shoulder all the time no matter what "respect" people give them) <br /> Save us billions of dollars in terms of the 44000 marijuana charges made every year. <br /> End marijuana as a "gateway" drug. It is a gateway drug because if someone is breaking the law by selling marijuana they might as well sell cocain too and make a ton more money. <br /> There are atleast 2000 (my own guess. The real numbers, what ever they are, are probably be way higher) armed robberies of marijuana dealers every year in this country. They are never reported because well you know. Every dealer I have ever had has been jacked atleast once. <br /> Free up more police to solve real crimes. <br /> medicinal use will reduce our healthcare costs <br /> as for people smoking marijuana this will also happen less because when this substance is in abundance people will bake it into food and consume it that way insted of smoking. <br /> This will reduce the amount of forests we need to cut down because the stem of marijuana can be turned into pulp and then paper (with only 2 chemicals and hemp paper is stronger than pulp paper). It can also be used to make clothing, rope, fuel and countless other items. <br /> This will also help get us out of NAFTA which has been a terrible burden on Canadians. <br /> I could list countless more benifits such as increased tourism and increased profits for farmers but I'll stop here. <br /> Oh and as for those nay sayers that think this will increase the amount of marijuana smoked or eaten in canada... it won't. We have a lower per capita user rate than the united states which has far worse pot laws than us. This substance being illegal has nothing to do with the amount of useage. <br /> <br /> 2. I will eliminate the GST even if that means raising income taxes or whatever. this hurts the poor people of this country the most and costs us money in the pointless burocracy of mailing out GST credit checks which costs you and me money in additional taxes and systems. <br /> <br /> 3. I will try to start a pilot program to socialize mass transit services and make them user fee free. if the program works then I will attempt to get more cities (other than saskatoon which would be the programs starting point) <br /> advantages of this are... <br /> People who cannot afford cars, students, and seniors are the people who use public transit the most. It will shift the burden of these, the poorest sectors of our country, and onto all residents of a city. This will cost all the residents of this city 50 dollars a year. yes 50 dollars. so basically if you take the bus back and fourth from a location 25 times in a year you will have earned your money back (not to mention with the price of gas going through the roof you will save even more money). This will reduce the amount of traffic on our roads which will reduce traffic jams, accidents, and pollution. and hopefully reduce the amount of impaired drivers out there. <br /> The negative effects that this will have are... <br /> Less people taking taxis so it will hurt their business (it might help it also like people may take a bus to the bar/mall then take a taxi home but lets just assume it will hurt their business) <br /> Less people buying gas from gas stations along with less foot traffic for those no where near bus stops. <br /> Less work for mechanices and tow trucks. <br /> Less money for the government in the form of gasoline tax. <br /> <br /> I can't think of anymore right now but I think it would be a benifit to people living in urban centers. If it does turn out to be a negative impact on this city then we will get rid of it. This will work better than Harper's "Mail in rebate" idea where poor people can send their bus passes in to the federal government for a little money back on thier income tax. The reason so many companies use mail in rebates is because 1/3 of them are never used. <br /> <br /> 4. I will do all these things within 3 years or I will resign. The only thing worse for me than not winning this election is winning and becoming another useless member of parliment. I will deliver on these promises or get out of office because clearly I will be of no use to anyone, including myself, if I can't get this done. On top of this I will work to increase our liberties while rooting out crime and corruption. reduce the burocracy in our police force (the worst horror story I heard was a detective had to create a 90 page summary for a warrant to get access to a murder scene. It took him 48 hours) and hopefully reduce the number of canada savings bonds issued. Most people seem to think canada savings bonds are a good thing but the interest that people who buy them get paid comes out of our taxes. The questions I have to ask now is "How little can your MP do and still get re-elected? How bad can a political party be and still get your vote? What are you willing to settle for?" <br /> <br /> Voting mainstream will give you more of the same. You need to wake up and realize if they were gonna do it they would have done it by now. The only reason any of the parties acted on same sex marriage or pot is because the courts made them.<br /> <br /> anyway for people who think these are "radical" ideas.. I know of a few radical ideas like say women should be allowed to vote, Native people are infact people, we should have a minimum wage, children shouldn't work 12 hours a day in a factory, the earth is round. <br /> <br /> Anyway that's my piece. Please start ripping it apart as best you can. also guess how educated I am or am not. How many degrees I hold or don't. A please attack me by pulling one sentance out of this rant and using it out of context. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <br /> <br />

   

gotta correct myself there were 44000 pot arrests made but about half of those ended up as actually charges.

   

Zeeboo says, 'As for your comments Whelan costen... You ran for the NDP in 2004 but have jumped ship and switched parties to CAP then accuse me of lying to the public about my political leanings... What the hell were you doing last election?'<br /> <br /> I ran provincially for NDP, and I believed in their policies. Federally I don't believe they are strong enough. I have always declared my beliefs, never hidden behind one party when I promoted another ideology. Provincially in Alberta the NDP had the best plan for the people, and that was my mandate. I am not suggesting you can't change your mind about a party, I am saying that your statement, 'I am running for the Greens not because I believe in their policies' is duplicity. If you said, I believe in their policies, with the exception of...I would understand that, but are you going to say to the voters, 'I am running on the Green Platform not because I believe in their policies'? <br /> <br /> That is my point. I think Canadians deserve the truth from Candidates, and I have never promoted something I didn't believe in. I didn't feel that the Federal NDP's were taking a hard enough stand on abrogating NAFTA, or Monetary Reform, and I don't think they are now. Nor do I think they are speaking out against the new privacy legislation, or LM involvement in our Census, or on the continued b.s. over BMD. So I chose a party that reflects my beliefs, and in this case, there is no difference between my beliefs and CAP's. <br /> <br /> I was not deliberately trying to attack you, but I was attacking the idea that a person should take funding from a party to run their platform, but declare as boldly as you did, that you will run even though you don't agree with their policies. I think it is past due for politicians to give the electorate the respect they deserve and be totally truthful about their platform, and I also think it is past due for politicians once elected to be held accountable for the promises they make during an election. When a party is national, and has a national platform, the public generally is given to believe that if they vote for that party, the candidate in their riding will support the party platform. That is the purpose of parties. <br /> <br /> As for this, 'but I'm not going to call you an under educated idiot for thinking that creating some social welfare state where people must rely on their government to command their lives for them is a good thing.' I guess you couldn't make that statment, because I never suggested that government command their lives, or that I promote a social welfare state. Not sure where you got that idea?<br /> <br /> As for ripping apart your platform, I am not interested, what I do think is proper, is for a candidate declare their platform and let the people vote in an educated manner. That was my objection to your statement.<br /> <br /> I think you have come up with your own platform and if you plan to run on it, then you would serve your constituents better by telling them what you stand for, and not have confusing messages going out to the electorate. <br /> <br /> Call me crazy or get angry if you want, but this is where I see many problems in our government. Chretien ran his party's campaign on getting rid of FTA and GST, MP Sheila Copps, threatened she would resign if the GST wasn't eliminated. The Conservatives lost the election, because they brought in both those plans and the Liberals promised to get rid of them. They did not! As we know. So I stand by my statements if you promote or promise something, in order to get a job and you don't even try to deliver on the goods, you ought to be fired.<br /> <br /> If a candidate choses a party and wins the candidacy, then they should promote that ideal and if not declare that they don't publicly. Most parties will tell you that if you run on their platform, they may pay for the signs, your elections fees, and other products, but they expect you to abide by their policy.<br /> <br /> So perhaps I am wrong and the Green Party doesn't hold you to their policies, and you are in fact running your own platform, based on your own ideas, but the party is just used to attract the votes, and raise your profile. If so, then perhaps the Green Party should declare that each of their candidates has an independant platform?

   

You see the technique I used is reffered to as burning straw men. I love it! It is where you claim someone else is bringing in a point of view (as you're doing). I had not said in my first statement "I don't believe in the green parties policies" I said "I'm running for the green party, not because I agree with their policies, but because we need another voice and another choice or we are going to lose everything including our liberty." I had not stated I disagree with their policies (even though I do with some) and you picked up on this pulling it out of context as I did to your statement. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> Now you seem to think it is wrong when I do it to you but it is okay for you to do it to me. Realize that you are part of the problem as am I and everyone else in canada. Because we aren't forcing action on issues that matter like monetary reform. <br /> <br /> "When I read the Green Party website, I see that they plan to get rid of all corporate taxes, which would leave working Canadians holding the bag, paying for their clean ups instead of social programs." this is where my statement of you wanting to create a welfare state comes from. Our society will not be better with additional funding to these programs that is a short term solution. Our society will be better when we don't need these programs in the first place.<br /> <br /> "I am tired of candidates winning their riding to get their name on the ballot, and then doing nothing to educate themselves, or understand the issues."<br /> What issues don't I understand? Given you don't say I don't understand the issues or what is at stake but you immediatly assume I'm an ass that is just out to get elected and then do nothing in terms of party policy. This Jim Pankiw form of debate didn't get him very far... I hope it works for you. <br /> <br /> What's CAP's platfrom? well here is how it starts<br /> <br /> Problem: When you phone a government office, chances are you will get a long menu of options only to find that none of them fit the problem you are inquiring about. So you waste valuable time while your frustration level continues to climb.<br /> <br /> Solution: Hire more live people to answer the phones and train them to know where your call should be directed to get an answer to your query. <br /> <br /> Problem: The new commissioner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police says that organized crime has infiltrated Canadian society to the point that even our institutions of government are threatened.<br /> <br /> Solution: Take off the handcuffs and do something about it instead of just talking about it.<br /> <br /> Problem: It costs more to fly from Ottawa to St. John's, Newfoundland, than it costs to fly from Ottawa to London, England.<br /> <br /> Solution: Make it illegal for Canadian airlines to charge more per seat mile for domestic flights than they charge for international flights.<br /> <br /> Problem: A number of mainline churches are facing the prospect of bankruptcy due to suits for alleged abuse of pupils in residential schools.<br /> <br /> Solution: The government should share the responsibility because it bears an overriding responsibility for the whole concept of residential schools. It should also ensure that there is an improved method of settling claims so that the bulk of the money goes to the claimants and less to the lawyers. <br /> <br /> Wow way to deal with real issues! Once canadian airlines charge less for tickets our whole contry will be saved! Now I am a big fan of your founder Paul but if you're calling my presentation and saying I'm not dealing with real issues I say just look in the mirror.<br /> <br /> Okay now I'm going to offer a truce and end our bickering. We both see that there are serious problems with our society. I encourage you personally to run for the green party.<br /> <br /> Check out this story A staggering new poll from Decima shows that 43% of all Canadian electors will now consider voting for the Green Party. An article by CP reporter Bruce Cheadle is featured on Macleans web site<br /> <br /> The research was conducted by Decima Research and reported in the Toronto Star put the party at 9% across Canada with another 34% of voters willing to consider the party – giving the party a total voter pool of 43% of voters! <br /> <br /> Support for the party continues to grow unabated. On June 17, 2004 with just 11 days to the election, EKOS reported the Green Party had 5% with another 18% of Canadian voters identifying the Green Party as their second choice, for a total voter pool of 23%. In August 2004 SES Research reported that 28% of Canadians would now consider voting for the Green Party. <br /> <br /> Decima’s research indicates that if the election were held in the summer of 2005, that 1.2 million electors plan to vote for the Green Party and another 4.6 million will consider voting it. This means that the Green Party’s ballot box support and voter pool have doubled in a year. <br /> <br /> As much as I hold to the principles of party politics I do differ in some respects to their platfrom. Why don't I run as an independant... much like in nazi germany in 1938 it is too late now. this is in overdrive and one independant candidate going alone will be like one tree standing infront of a tsunami. We need a whole forest to slow this down and the green party is the only group with a chance to do it. I agree it isn't much of a choice but it is your only real choice. <br /> <br /> We simply need another voice even if it has a message that is totally off (like say the marxist party). We need a diversity in our parliment because 4 voices isn't anywhere near enough. 4 voices cannot represent 32000000 canadains. nethier can 5 but it is a step in the right direction.<br /> <br /> The Green party allows its candidate to function with a platfrom that rings out more with local politics than national. We basically have provincial platfroms for the national party. As the conservatives have a platfrom the appeals to the west and idiots (they basically wae a bloody shirt and appeal to emotions not reason). The liberals have a platfrom that appeals to the center and morons who believe that they aren't lying to them yet again (and don't forget how the convince people to vote for them rather than letting that conservative boogey man run things). And the NDP have a platfrom that appeals to poor people and smart people who are brainwashed into thinking big gorvernment is a good thing (don't get me wrong in some cases it is, like public transit, but that is the last thing we need right now).<br /> <br /> The green parties site has the living platfrom where everyone including yourself can contribute your thoughts to the party. please I urge you to go green because as much as I would like to go with CAP they aren't big enough to deal with this anymore. It is too late to get CAP working and fighting for canada. Given they get ignored for spouting the conspiracy theorist view (which is right in my opinion but most people are so conditioned people simply shut off to what you are saying... on monetary policy, 9/11, chemtrails, and all that They have been conditioned in and they can be conditioned out of it) but they are right on many issues. Most people don't even know about that party. This is due mainly to their own ignorance of how our system really works and functions but also our own impotence when it comes to getting this message out.<br /> <br /> As for standing by my statements I do with my whole body and soul. I do promote and promise things which I will deliver or else get out of they way so somebody else might be able to get some things right.<br /> <br /> So please pull another few sentances out of context (I am really good at this style of debating so I welcome that challenge... much like Mike Tyson would like to be in a boxing match than a chess match... either way he can still go for the ears) or better yet agree that our bickering will get us nowhere and offer solutions to problems rather than playing the blame game.

   

I have no intentions, nor desire to belong to Greens, as I said I have found exactly what I am looking for in CAP. They hold the same policies as I do, their mission is the same and although we may be small, size really doesn't matter! It is the fight in the person that counts, and I think that Canada is worth fighting for, and CAP is the vehicle which I will use to get the word out. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/smile.gif' alt='Smile'>

   

Well good luck to you... anyone that reminds people that there is an alternative to main stream (aka the corporate schills) is a friend in my book. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and until some other party breaks through we are gonna keep losing.

   

and good luck to you also, I don't think people have to become enemies, just because they disagree with the methods to get to the goal. Differences are not to be harnessed they should be celebrated! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/biggrin.gif' alt='Big Grin'>