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Well I think the winner was the best choice, Tommy Douglas did more for more Canadians than any other on the list, he not only brought us non-profit healthcare, but he worked tirelessly for human rights, workers rights, raising the living standard for the little people, (so to speak) and that has more value than any other contribution made by others so far. The railroad was a good thing, I don't deny it and it peeves me off to see it being sold off, but it was about profit even then, Tommy Douglas' ideas and improvements to the lives of people, weren't based on profit for himself or others, heck he didn't even get true Canada wide recognition until this show! IMO

   

Whelan, <br /> <br />>Tommy Douglas did more for more Canadians than any >other on the list, he not only brought us non-profit >healthcare, but he worked tirelessly for human >rights, workers rights, raising the living standard >for the little people, <br />> <br /> <br />I totally agree. If you think of it all of those things he worked to get, are the aspects of Canada that were admired by other countries. To bad its were going backwards now. Is there another Tommy Douglas out there? David Orchard? Jack Layton? Ed Broadbent? If any of those three, I would say David Orchard. <br /> <br />Kevin

   

Tommy was a great man, but from what I've heard from David I think hes trying more to follow in the examples of Sir John and the Diefster! I know because of all the PEarsonites out there that the Dief didn't stand a very good chance of being on that list, but he really should have been! He probably would have been second choice in the minds of many who were voting for the other candidates when you think about it! <br /> <br />Sir John should have been first or at least in the top five, but I was glad to see Tommy Douglas get that type of recognition!

   

That phony, Jack Layton, another Tommy? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/lol.gif' alt='Laughing Out Loud'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/lol.gif' alt='Laughing Out Loud'>

   

I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned Sir Arthur Currie, the commander of the Canadian Corps during WWI.... <br /> <br />Also, Fred Rose, Canada's first and only elected Communist. Not because of his party affiliation, but for the treatment he had to endure in just doing his job at the time when Nazism was still spreading (even in Canada). <br /> <br />David Suzuki should have also recieved more recognition, rather than simply being described as "a man on TV." <br /> <br />I'll also add Sir Isaac Brock to my list because every Anglo living in Canada at the time was British (and while I'm still using this reasoning I'll nominate Benedict Arnold for still being able to piss off Americans <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'> ). <br /> <br />I entirely agree with the choices of Sir John A. MacDonald, Terry Fox, and Tommy Douglas.

   

Well "mac/dief" I met Jack Layton personally and I have to disagree with you that he is a phony. I will agree that he can't be another Tommy Douglas. I believe that Jack Layton is not a strong leader in a sense. Meaning he will not be able to make things happen like Tommy Douglas. Not that he doesn't mean what he says, he just doesn't have what it takes to make it happen. But I do believe that what he says he means it.

You can disagree with my observation of his character from meeting him personally. That's fine. Maybe you met him personally and you have a different observation of his character. That's fine too.

Kevin

   

David Orchard may appear to be following Dief and Sir. J but when you really study David Orchard he truly does have similar visions for Canada as did Tommy Douglas. Tommy Douglas believed in the public health care system including ALL health services, not just hospital and doctor visits. Have dental included and other health services. From different things David Orchard has said in his speeches, leads me to believe he is for a wider public health care system as well.

Kevin

   

[QUOTE BY= mac/dief] Who did you want to see on the Greatest Canadians list, and if you could have decided the list how would it have gone? I think that that's a pretty interesting question to ask yourself and you're knowlegde and perception of Canadian history. <br /> <br />Myself I would say: <br /> <br />1. Sir John A. Macdonald <br />2. John Diefenbaker <br /> <br />[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />i would never put diefenbaker up that high. from what happened when mulroney/reagan & dief/truman were in office, dief/eisenhower i would definitely say that pc(conservative)/republican is the worst possible combination, as far as canadian sovereignty is concerned.

   

[QUOTE BY= N Say] <br /> <br />i would never put diefenbaker up that high. from what happened when mulroney/reagan & dief/truman were in office, dief/eisenhower i would definitely say that pc(conservative)/republican is the worst possible combination, as far as canadian sovereignty is concerned.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />That makes absolutely no sense and obviously means that you know absolutely nothing about John George Diefenbaker, the Canadian Conservative tradition or American so called "Republicanism". NO 20TH CENTURY CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER DID NEARLY AS MUCH AS THE DIEF TO PROTECT CANADIAN SOVEREIGNTY AND THAT INCLUDES TRUDEAU!!!!! He might have made mistakes, BUT he never wavered when it came to his mission of making Canada a fully self sufficient and sovereign nation and compared to that free trader, Pearson, the Dief would have been the better choice as far as sovereignty is concerned. You're comments show strong ignorance towards Canadian history and what Conservatism is! <br /> <br />In response to Kevin, no I've never met Jack personally the only federal party leader I've ever met is Jim Harris, he was no Diefenbaker or Trudeau, he didn't leave a huge impression, but he seemed at least intelligent. The major reason why Layton comes across as being such a phony to me I would have to say is the way he always had his sleeves rolled up during commercials and debates with the other leaders to signify that he's "working class", thats what Juan Peron used to do and yes that is incredibaly phony! Even in his commercials he kind of came across like the Fido phone guy, I had a huge respect for Alexa Macdonough and Ed Broadbent even though Im not a New Democrat, but the way Jack Layton talks and the way he presents his ideas just doesn't impress me, he just does not come across as being that honest or sincere, thats just my opinion, I mean Im not saying I dont know other people who thought the same about him, but since Ive never met him personally no I dont know what hes like exactly. <br />

   

Fred Rose, sure I can respect what he did, even though Im an anti-communist I can still respect the fact that he stood up for his beliefs, respected the democratic system and even under enormous repression he never gave up. But the only Canadian Communist I ahve any real respect for would be Dr. Norman Bethune for his innovation which led to blood transfusions and for his selfless devotion to humanity which led to him volunteering in the name of democracy in Spain, and yes in the name of a Communist rebel army in China which after taking power became repressive, but still against a repressive regime at the time (the regime of Chang Kai Shek). <br /> <br />Laura Seacord is someone I would add for her bravery and patriotism, even though American historians like to portray her as a "British loyalist" and "traitor", as opposed to a Canadian patriot, but hey what do they know?? You cant really add Benedict Arnold, even though it would get the Americans mad since technically he was not Canadian, he was a born American and he betrayed his cause out of loyalty to England, not Canada. If anything though I pitty him for the anguish and isolation he felt even when he fled to England, I can't really admire him since he betrayed his own nation and people. <br /> <br />Tecumseh or Sir Isaak Brock are two great Canadians I would add, they like the Dief made it well into the top 50 but sadly not the top 10. But hey what are ya gonna do? I wasnt surprised that Mulroney made it into the top 100, he does have a few fans left, but I was kind of upset to see both Preston Manning and Rene Levesque there even though they were down at the bottom. <br /> <br />Or the fact that Laurier beat Borden kinda pissed me off, DAMN FREE TRADING ECONOMIC LIBERALS!!! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mad.gif' alt='Angry'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mad.gif' alt='Angry'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mad.gif' alt='Angry'>

   

I remember when Jack Layton came here and I had volunteered to drive the media MCTV media crew around. The two guy's I drove around from MCTV had said good things about Jack. One guy had said out of all the politicians he had covered, Jack had came off to him as one of the most genuine politicians he had ever met.

This reporter said that his first impression of Jack was that he was a not genuine. He just felt that he was like all politicians who were all for show and not genuine. He told me about this one incident that changed his view of Jack. It was during his stop in Winnipeg. He was outside at a outside restaurant and this handicap fellow had come up to Jack Layton to hug him unexpectedly, and Jack he said genuinely huged him and didn't stop hugging the man until he backed away from him. After that Jack didn't back away from this guy, he stayed with him until he was done talking to Jack. This reporter said that he just found that Jack was very genuine and he had never seen this in a politician before.

The reporter told me in a few days he was gonna spend a few weeks covering the campaign of Mr. Harper. He was gonna send me an email telling me about that, but he never did. I wonder if Mr. Harper was a genuine politician to him?

Kevin

   

[QUOTE BY= mac/dief] [QUOTE BY= N Say] <br /> <br />i would never put diefenbaker up that high. from what happened when mulroney/reagan & dief/eisenhower were in office, i would definitely say that pc(conservative)/republican is the worst possible combination, as far as canadian sovereignty is concerned.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />That makes absolutely no sense and obviously means that you know absolutely nothing about John George Diefenbaker, the Canadian Conservative tradition or American so called "Republicanism". NO 20TH CENTURY CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER DID NEARLY AS MUCH AS THE DIEF TO PROTECT CANADIAN SOVEREIGNTY AND THAT INCLUDES TRUDEAU!!!!! He might have made mistakes, BUT he never wavered when it came to his mission of making Canada a fully self sufficient and sovereign nation[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />when eisenhower was pres dief killed the avro arrow project, spent $500000000 (1950s $$s) on blanks & signed on to NORAD, which is headquartered in the US & basically run by americans. if dief really wanted canadian independence he wouldn't have caved. the americans didn't really believe that trudeau would turn his rhetoric into legislation re: NEP but he did anyway. diefenbaker only had a couple studies put out about a national power grid & national oil policy & none of that made it anywhere near the house of commons

   

First of all Diefenbaker signed us onto NORAD because he was afraid of the growing military power of the Soviet Union, and in the 1950s who can blame him??? He was an ardent anti-communist, he supported civil liberties which is why he lifted the ban on the Communist Party of Canada after taking office, but he opposed the totalitarianism and radicalism that Communism stands for. <br /> <br />True he didn't adopt as strong of an economic nationalist agenda as Trudeau, but when it came to the Dief's foreign policy he never shyed away from defending Canada's interests on the world stage. He sold wheat to the P.R. of China to help those suffering from the famine, continued diplomatic relations with Cuba, said a resolute NO to sending troops to Vietnam or aiding the American war effort in any way and reversed the freer trade policies of St. Laurent and Mackenzie King placing tarrifs on U.S. goods protecting CANADIAN businesses, trust me he was serious about our sovereignty. <br /> <br />Yes he cancelled the Avro Arrow, but it was the right choice, most historians agree that had Louis St. Laurent remained in power he would have done the same, its costs were skyrocketing beyond belief and continuing the project would have meant ending his subsidies for farmers, generous pensions of maritime fishermen and northern development project. In the grand scheme of things, it was worth it. Yes the Arrow was an important scientific endevour, but a nation's greatness is better exemplified by how it treats its people and industries than on the aeronautical advancements it makes. Yeah, there are alot of space geeks and aviation nerds who think that the "great arrow" was Canada's greatest and only important acheivement, but I really could care less what there opinions are. <br /> <br />In the very beginning his fiscal policies were incredibally generous, but two years into his term he had to introduce some cutbacks as the North American economy found itself in the worst recession since the 1930s, a similar position that two New Democrats; Bob Rae and Roy Romanow found themselves in during the early 1990s, I bet you would defend them. When it comes right down to it, the Tories without a question of a doubt are unrivalled in terms of generousity, progressive thinking and nation building and Diefenbaker, though he made some mistakes stands as one of the best examples of a passionate patriotic visionary and fighter for all of Canada's underdogs, a true Tory if the world ever saw one! <br /> <br />Besides Trudeau's economic experiments really did not bare fruit and though gave us stronger economic independence for a while on some fronts, hurt many of our Canadian industries, especially the energy industry in the western provinces!!! <br /> <br />

   

Trudeau was a capitalist who believed in free enterprise and initiative, but he didn't always do his best to protect Canadian businesses and promote incentives. An interesting thing to note is how steadily our economy grew weaker under Trudeau took power, after the booming 1960s!

   

david orchard wrote in his book that the arrow was very inexpensive; i'd have to check that out in his endnotes next time i read it. <br /> <br />the NEP, as moderate as it was, would have made us debt-free by 1990 if mulroney hadn't rolled it back, so ya it would have bore fruit if it had been allowed to go ahead

   

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