Canada Kicks Ass
100 years since World War I

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martin14 @ Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:12 am

Aug. 3

Belgian Government refuses German demands.

British Government guarantees armed support to Belgium should Germany violate Belgian neutrality.

British Government orders General Mobilization and includes an order authorizing the requisition of shipping.

Italy declares neutrality.




Germany declares war on France.

   



Jabberwalker @ Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:22 am

Italy declares neutrality.

... waiting to see which side will be the winning side before joining them ...

   



martin14 @ Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:55 am

Today is of course an important day...


Germany declares war on Belgium.
German troops cross the Belgian frontier and attack Liège. Battle and Siege of Liège begins.


British Government sends ultimatum to Germany.

Great Britain declares war on Germany at 11 pm.

The United States declares neutrality.



We are, of course, at war with Germany also.


Population of Canada in 1914: 7.8 million

For the fiscal year beginning 1 April 1914 the total authorized
establishment of the Forces was 3110 all ranks and 684 horses,
and a Non Permanent Miltia of around 40,000.


Rather humble beginnings, considering we will eventually put 450,000 soldiers in the front line,
and a total of 619,000 enlisted in the CEF.

   



Jabberwalker @ Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:07 am

For the fiscal year beginning 1 April 1914 the total authorized
establishment of the Forces was 3110 all ranks and 684 horses,
and a Non Permanent Miltia of around 40,000.



We keep doing things like that, over and over in this country, godammit.

   



martin14 @ Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:50 pm

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
For the fiscal year beginning 1 April 1914 the total authorized
establishment of the Forces was 3110 all ranks and 684 horses,
and a Non Permanent Miltia of around 40,000.



We keep doing things like that, over and over in this country, godammit.



Some things never change.


BBC2 just finished an evening of commemoration at St. Symphorien Cemetery,

regulars here will remember the long thread I made in 2012.


First British death, first British VC, last British death, and George Price,
last Canadian casualty, are all buried in the cemetery.
A very beautiful place.

There will be a service in Westminster Abbey soon.


$1:
Monday 4th August will be the anniversary of the declaration of the First World War. Drawing upon Sir Edward Grey’s famous remark that “the lights are going out all over Europe”, the Abbey will hold a candlelit vigil at 10.00pm, which will be broadcast live on BBC TWO. The Abbey will move from light into darkness until one candle remains at the Grave of the Unknown Warrior, which will be extinguished at 11.00pm marking the exact moment of the declaration of war. The Vigil will feature music, readings, poetry, and contemporary reflection, such as diary entries and letters from 1914. It is hoped that churches, community groups and other faith communities will hold their own vigils and the Abbey has published advice and resources to assist with planning these services.


The British Legion has also mentioned their idea to have
people dim their lights at home.



$1:
LIGHTS OUT is an invitation to everyone in the UK to participate in a shared moment of reflection by turning off their lights from 10pm to 11pm on 4 August, leaving on a single light or candle, to mark the 100th anniversary of when Great Britain entered the First World War.

   



CKASlacker @ Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:18 pm

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
when the CEF and Australians were chosen (because of the danger and disposability of colonial troops, maybe) to lead the "Final Push" in 1918. Haig saw this independent Canadian army as vaguely insubordinate.

I recall something along the same lines of this, that the British generally put colonially troops into the "exposed" positions along the front. 2nd Battle of Ypres where the Germans attacked with chlorine comes to mind.

Also recall seeing a disproportionate number of colonial troops on the Menin Gate -- but of course this was just my impression at the time.

Anyways, if even part of that sentiment was true (ie. to use "disposable" colonial troops)... really warms the cockles of your heart for loyalist Canada to have come to the aid of the UK... :roll:

   



Jabberwalker @ Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:45 pm

I recall something along the same lines of this, that the British generally put colonially troops into the "exposed" positions along the front. 2nd Battle of Ypres where the Germans attacked with chlorine comes to mind.

There is plenty of evidence that that sort thing went on at some level of planning or other, here and there. I wouldn't accuse the British of doing that during the Second Battle of Ypres, though. I don't know if there was any advanced intel. with the British (or more importantly the French who commanded in the Ypres Salient) that poison gas was forthcoming. A lot of them wouldn't have understood the message if they did get warning, probably. It was still an unknown weapon to almost all of them. I should also point out that the Canadians were itching to get into battle for the first time and probably forced the issue, anyway.

Anyways, if even part of that sentiment was true (ie. to use "disposable" colonial troops)... really warms the cockles of your heart for loyalist Canada to have come to the aid of the UK... :roll:



Well, a Loyalist Canada did just that and as the war progressed, Canadians were increasingly under the command of competent Canadians. That alone probably saved tens of thousands of Canadian lives by the end of the war.

   



martin14 @ Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:29 pm

CKASlacker CKASlacker:
Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
when the CEF and Australians were chosen (because of the danger and disposability of colonial troops, maybe) to lead the "Final Push" in 1918. Haig saw this independent Canadian army as vaguely insubordinate.

I recall something along the same lines of this, that the British generally put colonially troops into the "exposed" positions along the front. 2nd Battle of Ypres where the Germans attacked with chlorine comes to mind.

Also recall seeing a disproportionate number of colonial troops on the Menin Gate -- but of course this was just my impression at the time.

Anyways, if even part of that sentiment was true (ie. to use "disposable" colonial troops)... really warms the cockles of your heart for loyalist Canada to have come to the aid of the UK... :roll:



My only answer......

They may have started with this 'colonial' attitude, but I think the Germans intentionally
not attacking any Canadian unit during Operation Michael speaks volumes.
At least the Germans respected us. :)


And Menin....

There are 7000 Canadians, 6000 Australians, and 40,000 Brits listed on the Menin Gate


Perhaps you missed the 34,000 names of the missing at Tyne Cot Cemetery,

and the 74,000 names list on the Thiepval Memorial to the Missing at the Somme.




Not to mention the literally hundreds of small cemeteries up and down the line,
with only British dead resting there.

   



CKASlacker @ Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:30 pm

martin14 martin14:
And Menin....

There are 7000 Canadians, 6000 Australians, and 40,000 Brits listed on the Menin Gate

Perhaps you missed the 34,000 names of the missing at Tyne Cot Cemetery,

and the 74,000 names list on the Thiepval Memorial to the Missing at the Somme.

Not to mention the literally hundreds of small cemeteries up and down the line,
with only British dead resting there.

Yes, saw those too -- like I said it was just my impression at the time.

Interestingly, from http://www.1914-1918.net/faq.htm:

A quick calculation shows that troops in the British Forces (in all theatres of the War) from the British Isles total just shy of 2/3 of the total force, with Canada, Oz, NZ, India, etc. making up the last third. However, from the same page the number of British Isle dead compared to the total is close to 74%... meaning that actually a greater proportion of troops from the Isles died compared to the colonials.

Now that doesn't take into account the different theatres, or possibility the ingenuity in the colonials to protect themselves (Canadian tunnels at Vimy, for instance). But interesting nonetheless.

   



Jabberwalker @ Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:06 pm

The Canadians invented new tactics, dependant on lower ranks, private soldiers being entrusted with thinking for themselves on the battlefield. There is a continuing Canadian tradition that started with Curry's army of our soldiers "training up" so that corporals could fill in a sergeants, privates as corporals, sergeants as lieutenants, etc. to keep the army functioning during the fog of war. The British Edwardian class system could not let such things happen. Everyone had their place in the scheme of things. It took this war and another one in 1939 before the British finally shook off the shackles of their rigid class system. It did not serve them well. The British officer class was drawn from the aristocracy. The very reason to have an aristocracy is to provide military leadership in time of war. In this war, they failed miserably as it required scientific, engineering and management skills to fight a technological war and the British upper class was notoriously poorly educated (still is).

   



Thanos @ Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:36 pm

That sort of thinking was still prevalent in 1939 too, which explains why the Germans caught the Allies so flat-footed in France in 1940. Nazism allowed anyone, regardless of class background, to move upwards in the military if they proved themselves capable of leading. The old "vons" and "aufs" of the old Prussian Junkers nobility no longer had a stranglehold on the officer ranks and lots of colonels and generals that came from more modest middle-class backgrounds had great success in the German military. The British however were still too dominated by the Sir Dipshite Weasel of Lower Duodenum types, especially in the general staff. It showed in the desert war where, despite having an almost continuous supremacy over Rommel in terms of men, vehicles, airpower, and naval support, the British nearly lost North Africa thanks to the chaos their incompetent leadership was causing. It was more or less corrected by the end of the war but it asks how many battles and lives were lost all due to the residual stubbornness of social class in British thinking.

   



PublicAnimalNo9 @ Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:19 pm

martin14 martin14:
CKASlacker CKASlacker:
Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
when the CEF and Australians were chosen (because of the danger and disposability of colonial troops, maybe) to lead the "Final Push" in 1918. Haig saw this independent Canadian army as vaguely insubordinate.

I recall something along the same lines of this, that the British generally put colonially troops into the "exposed" positions along the front. 2nd Battle of Ypres where the Germans attacked with chlorine comes to mind.

Also recall seeing a disproportionate number of colonial troops on the Menin Gate -- but of course this was just my impression at the time.

Anyways, if even part of that sentiment was true (ie. to use "disposable" colonial troops)... really warms the cockles of your heart for loyalist Canada to have come to the aid of the UK... :roll:



My only answer......

They may have started with this 'colonial' attitude, but I think the Germans intentionally
not attacking any Canadian unit during Operation Michael speaks volumes.
At least the Germans respected us. :)

And feared us. They paid the Canadian soldiers a huge compliment by referring to them as Sturmtroopen.
The German general at Vimy Ridge wrote in his diary before the battle commenced, "Arrayed before us were Britain's four finest assault battalions, the Canadians."

That same respect and tinge of fear stuck around for WW2 as well, at least among some of those in the Wermacht.

   



martin14 @ Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:51 pm

Aug. 6


Battle of the Frontiers begins in France.



Britain accepts Canada's offer of 20,000 troops.

On the evening of August 6th the Minister of Militia Sam Hughes sent a letter gram to the 226 Militia commanding officers
across Canada announcing the formation of the Canadian Expeditionary Force to be mobilized at camp Valcartier P.Q.
Valcartier had already been selected as a military training ground before the war broke out; but little had been done to put it in shape to serve as a mobilization centre for an expeditionary force of over 20,000 men.
On the day after war was declared, however, the engineers were already at work at the camp; and in less than three weeks there had sprung up what was perhaps one of the finest military encampments in the world.
A mile of rifle ranges was constructed; a waterworks system, a telephone system, and an electric light system. were installed; storehouses, offices, a moving picture palace, rose overnight; and ordnance stores began to pour in.


By the end of August, over 30,000 volunteers would be in Valcartier.


Some images of Valcartier.

Image

Image

Image


Valcartier is still used as a CFB today.

   



CKASlacker @ Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:27 am

Thanos Thanos:
That sort of thinking was still prevalent in 1939 too, which explains why the Germans caught the Allies so flat-footed in France in 1940. Nazism allowed anyone, regardless of class background, to move upwards in the military if they proved themselves capable of leading. The old "vons" and "aufs" of the old Prussian Junkers nobility no longer had a stranglehold on the officer ranks and lots of colonels and generals that came from more modest middle-class backgrounds had great success in the German military.

Didn't Uncle Adolf himself rail against this Prussian nobility attitude himself? I recall reading that somewhere...

   



Thanos @ Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:47 am

Hitler didn't like them or trust them very much, that's for certain. Bit him on the rear end when he stopped listening altogether to the generals, even the ones who had proven their competence, and took over all the war planning (even down to the tactical level) for himself. Foolishly repeated in 1943 through 1945 exactly what Stalin did in the first year after the German invasion and issued a bunch of ridiculous stand-and-die orders that cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of his own soldiers and lost dozens of battles that should never have been fought. The inherent egomania of dictators usually turns out to be one of the best weapons to use against them because, apparently, most of them will do something really stupid and effectively destroy their own cause.

   



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