Al Qaeda Supporters' Tape to Call for Use of WMDs
Newsbot @ Wed May 28, 2008 9:41 am
Title: Al Qaeda Supporters' Tape to Call for Use of WMDs
Category: World
Posted By: stemmer
Date: 2008-05-28 09:35:04
stemmer @ Wed May 28, 2008 9:41 am
Now kindly INFORM me one more time why we should not be in Afghanistan and Irak????
meaden24 @ Wed May 28, 2008 10:54 am
we're not in "iraq"
stemmer @ Wed May 28, 2008 11:07 am
No...but the west certainly is and it was 'the west' these nutbars are calling out...
Deiwos @ Wed May 28, 2008 11:47 am
The primary reason for not being in Afganistan, besides costs, is the concept that what the West is doing there (and on the US' part in Iraq) is causing more discontent there than help. The discontent made helps terrorist groups to recruit, so in theory we are simply building our enemy by fighting them.
sandorski @ Wed May 28, 2008 12:01 pm
It's a good thing that all effort was put into destroying Al Queda then...oh wait!
Not sure hhow this pertains to Iraq at all. Unless someone believes WMD were found.
meaden24 @ Wed May 28, 2008 12:29 pm
Wow Deiwos, way to rely on main stream news media to get your information. Tell me have you been on the ground in afghanistan to make these claims? If you can read than go figure this out for yourself besides making empty theories as to why or not we should be there. We are making a difference in so many lives there and promoting a chance for a better life. The simple fact that the ultra religious taliban is resorting dressing men in burka's and using children to do their suicide bombing is proof they're losing steam. I just wish for one day Canada could be impoverished and beaten so you could look a soldier in the eyes that is there to help your country become more secure and build it up again and tell him that he's creating discontent. All you've proven here is you have no clue what you're talking about when it comes to modern warfare, globalization of society, and Canada's mission in Afghanistan.
stemmer @ Thu May 29, 2008 6:59 am
meaden24 meaden24:
we're not in "iraq"
We're not?
then explain this...
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... e=&no_ads=
$1:
Liberals under fire for Canadian troops in Iraq
Updated Sat. Mar. 29 2003 7:26 AM ET
Canadian Press
OTTAWA -- Opposition parties accused the Liberal government of hypocrisy Friday for allowing a few Canadian military personnel to take part in the war on Iraq even though Canada does not support the conflict.
Defence Department sources and a British officer have confirmed Canadian exchange officers have been deployed in the war zone, but the government has refused to be pinned down on the issue.
Foreign Affairs Minister Bill Graham said that just because Canadians might be with coalition units in Iraq, it doesn't make them combatants in the war any more than the Canadian navy's presence in the Persian Gulf does.
"Our ships might enter into Iraqi waters," Graham said outside the House of Commons. "Does that put them in Iraq for the war on Iraq? No, it puts them in the war against terrorism.
"They are in that theatre. It's all been a part of what we originally started in terms of the war against terrorism and that's where we're going to remain."
The federal government has been under fire for opposing the U.S. intervention -- which does not have UN backing -- while at the same time allowing 31 Canadian exchange officers to serve with coalition units.
On Thursday, a British officer in Kuwait said some Canadians, mostly majors serving in logistics roles, are in harm's way.
Prime Minister Jean Chretien and his top cabinet ministers have refused to confirm that any Canadian troops are actually in Iraq. They have also denied that any Canadians are in combat roles, saying the troops would fire their weapons only in self-defence.
The furthest Graham would go Friday was to confirm that Canadians are in the "region."
"Some of them are there," he said. "That's understood. You saw a British colonel on television last night."
Canada refused to back the Iraq war, saying it would only do so with the endorsement of the United Nations.
Opposition MPs said the government is trying to have it both ways.
"As the days go by, it becomes clearer that Canada is involved in a war that the prime minister has called unjustified," said Bloc Quebecois MP Michel Guimond.
"How can the government reconcile (its position) with the presence of Canadian combatants in Iraq?"
Guimond said it's as if Canada had one set of values before the war and another set after it began.
The Canadian Alliance accused the government of abandoning its duty and its soldiers.
"It is said that our nation was born at Vimy Ridge," Alliance MP Grant Hill told the Commons. "Thanks to the Liberal government, the fight for freedom and democracy in Iraq is being undertaken underneath the Union Jack.
"These brave Canadian soldiers are doing this country proud. Why has the Liberal government abandoned them?"
Three Canadian warships are leading a task force patrolling the southern two-thirds of the Persian Gulf as part of the war on terrorism. They have escorted coalition ships north toward Iraq.
Canadian air crew are also flying aboard U.S. AWACs command-and-control aircraft in the region.
U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci has said Canada has been a great partner in the war on terrorism and indirectly is giving more support to the Iraq campaign than most supporters of the U.S.-led coalition.
However, he also said Americans are disappointed Canada is not officially backing the war effort.
Updated Sat. Mar. 29 2003 7:26 AM ET
Canadian Press
OTTAWA -- Opposition parties accused the Liberal government of hypocrisy Friday for allowing a few Canadian military personnel to take part in the war on Iraq even though Canada does not support the conflict.
Defence Department sources and a British officer have confirmed Canadian exchange officers have been deployed in the war zone, but the government has refused to be pinned down on the issue.
Foreign Affairs Minister Bill Graham said that just because Canadians might be with coalition units in Iraq, it doesn't make them combatants in the war any more than the Canadian navy's presence in the Persian Gulf does.
"Our ships might enter into Iraqi waters," Graham said outside the House of Commons. "Does that put them in Iraq for the war on Iraq? No, it puts them in the war against terrorism.
"They are in that theatre. It's all been a part of what we originally started in terms of the war against terrorism and that's where we're going to remain."
The federal government has been under fire for opposing the U.S. intervention -- which does not have UN backing -- while at the same time allowing 31 Canadian exchange officers to serve with coalition units.
On Thursday, a British officer in Kuwait said some Canadians, mostly majors serving in logistics roles, are in harm's way.
Prime Minister Jean Chretien and his top cabinet ministers have refused to confirm that any Canadian troops are actually in Iraq. They have also denied that any Canadians are in combat roles, saying the troops would fire their weapons only in self-defence.
The furthest Graham would go Friday was to confirm that Canadians are in the "region."
"Some of them are there," he said. "That's understood. You saw a British colonel on television last night."
Canada refused to back the Iraq war, saying it would only do so with the endorsement of the United Nations.
Opposition MPs said the government is trying to have it both ways.
"As the days go by, it becomes clearer that Canada is involved in a war that the prime minister has called unjustified," said Bloc Quebecois MP Michel Guimond.
"How can the government reconcile (its position) with the presence of Canadian combatants in Iraq?"
Guimond said it's as if Canada had one set of values before the war and another set after it began.
The Canadian Alliance accused the government of abandoning its duty and its soldiers.
"It is said that our nation was born at Vimy Ridge," Alliance MP Grant Hill told the Commons. "Thanks to the Liberal government, the fight for freedom and democracy in Iraq is being undertaken underneath the Union Jack.
"These brave Canadian soldiers are doing this country proud. Why has the Liberal government abandoned them?"
Three Canadian warships are leading a task force patrolling the southern two-thirds of the Persian Gulf as part of the war on terrorism. They have escorted coalition ships north toward Iraq.
Canadian air crew are also flying aboard U.S. AWACs command-and-control aircraft in the region.
U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci has said Canada has been a great partner in the war on terrorism and indirectly is giving more support to the Iraq campaign than most supporters of the U.S.-led coalition.
However, he also said Americans are disappointed Canada is not officially backing the war effort.
stemmer @ Thu May 29, 2008 7:03 am
$1:
Canada’s elite JTF-2 special forces played a role in helping to rescue three western aid workers, including two Canadians, held captive in Baghdad.
The Defence Department refused Thursday to confirm Canadian military involvement, but a source said the elite squad was ‘’instrumental'’ in the operation.
Pentagon and British military officials also said that Canadian and British special forces took the reins of the ground operation.
The Defence Department refused Thursday to confirm Canadian military involvement, but a source said the elite squad was ‘’instrumental'’ in the operation.
Pentagon and British military officials also said that Canadian and British special forces took the reins of the ground operation.
$1:
Pentagon sources have told CBC News that Canadian special forces were involved, but it’s not clear who took part or what their role may have been.
There have been reports that Canada’s top secret commandos, Joint Task Force 2, had been working in Iraq. It’s believed they worked in tandem with Britain’s elite Special Air Service (SAS).
There have been reports that Canada’s top secret commandos, Joint Task Force 2, had been working in Iraq. It’s believed they worked in tandem with Britain’s elite Special Air Service (SAS).
$1:
Harper refused to say whether JTF2 is operating in Iraq, citing national security. He did say, however, that it should be no surprise that Canadians are in Iraq.
“There have been a small number of Canadian military personnel embedded in American and allied units. That’s been the case since the beginning of the war. Nothing has changed on that front,” he said.
“There have been a small number of Canadian military personnel embedded in American and allied units. That’s been the case since the beginning of the war. Nothing has changed on that front,” he said.
$1:
CP reported that then-prime minister Paul Martin’s Liberal government approved Canada’s participation in the mission in the middle of the election campaign.
Ottawa dispatched a team of Canadian soldiers to Baghdad in early December that included a team of diplomats, Mounties, and CSIS intelligence officers.
Ottawa dispatched a team of Canadian soldiers to Baghdad in early December that included a team of diplomats, Mounties, and CSIS intelligence officers.
meaden24 @ Thu May 29, 2008 7:08 am
I say again, we're not in Iraq. You can post all the news articles from 2003 you want.
mtbr @ Thu May 29, 2008 9:53 am
Deiwos Deiwos:
The primary reason for not being in Afganistan, besides costs, is the concept that what the West is doing there (and on the US' part in Iraq) is causing more discontent there than help. The discontent made helps terrorist groups to recruit, so in theory we are simply building our enemy by fighting them.
Even the left disagrees with you.
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=472474
B.C. group fights disinformation on Afghan mission.
VANCOUVER -- The rabble will gather again today, outside this city's main public art gallery on a large, downtown square, near clothing shops and record stores. A good spot for an anti-war protest.
As they always do, leaders of the group Mobilization Against War and Occupation will distribute propaganda-filled leaflets. MAWO's message: Canadian soldiers deployed in Afghanistan are criminals, "battling a popular resistance movement of regular Afghan people."
The recent decision in Parliament to extend Canada's mission in Afghanistan "means two more years of plunder, two more years of destruction ... we must demand an end to this cruel war drive," reads MAWO's latest pamphlet.
A poorly formed view, but not uncommon. Similar sentiments are expressed throughout the country. But a new countermovement has formed, one that lauds the Canadian Forces and its efforts in Afghanistan. Strange as it might seem, it's based here in Vancouver, where the political landscape tilts sharply to the left.
Founders of the Canada Afghanistan Solidarity Committee include poets, environmentalists and local authors who will never be mistaken for conservatives, such as Terry Glavin and Stan Persky. Among the many books Mr. Pesky has written is Boyopolis: Sex and Politics in Gay Eastern Europe; one can assume it is not on Rick Hillier's bedside table.
Other founding members include "academics, gay rights activists, student activists, Afghan-Canadians and feminists," according to a recent CASC press release. "We are united under the premise that we must honour our obligations to the cause of solidarity with the people of Afghanistan ... The only honest ‘anti-war' position is to support Canada's military engagement in Afghanistan."
Not such an easy sell, admits CASC member Jonathon Narvey, a 33-year-old journalist and editor. "A lot of our members are lefties," he says, but "it's a bit of a grind" getting across the message that the war in Afghanistan is worth fighting. Much of the effort is used "reminding people of the facts."
The committee takes direct aim at MAWO, warning students and activists to steer clear of it, and describing it as "a bizarre cult-like group" whose demands for an immediate withdrawal of military from Afghanistan are "simplistic, ignorant and morally disgraceful."
Human-rights consultant and CASC founding member Lauryn Oates, 26, does not apologize for the strong language and condemnations; she says they are necessary and long overdue. MAWO, she says, "is despicable."
Labelling it a cult is not a stretch, insists Ms. Oates.
Former members of MAWO and its sister group, Fire This Time, allege that their leaders would routinely harass and abuse those who dared try to leave, or to even question the group's tactics.
"I carried out ‘exit meetings' on members who resigned or tried to resign," wrote Fire This Time co-founder and former MAWO member Ivan Drury, in a confessional resignation letter he published last year. "These involved attempts to humiliate and degrade these people so that whatever was left of their confidence would be broken so badly they would not get involved in any other group [or] become our opponents."
One woman, Mr. Drury recalled, "was berated for her ‘petty bourgeois tendencies.' The specific charge? That she was too attached to her parents. The evidence? That she was refusing to steal from their credit card to buy a computer for ‘our movement.' The meeting lasted over three hours. In the end, she caved to our extortion."
MAWO members deny their organization resembles anything like a cult. "I am familiar with this kind of slander and gossip campaign," said Kira Koshelanyk in an interview this week. "This kind of thing, honestly, we don't pay a lot of heed to that."
But when it comes to Afghanistan, MAWO members do not speak from any direct experience. "We obviously have not been to Afghanistan," admitted Ms. Koshelanyk, in an interview this week. "Of course, we have met [Afghans who share MAWO's point of view]."
Unfortunately, she could not name any. Fellow MAWO member Janine Solanki jumped in to explain that Afghans living in Canada "don't feel comfortable getting involved because the country they are living in is occupying Afghanistan. As immigrants, it's a difficult thing in Canada to speak out against that."
Nonsense, says Afghan-Canadian Karim Qayumi, a CASC member and the director of research at the University of British Columbia's divisions of cardiovascular and thoracic surgery.
"I know many Afghans who are passionate about the military mission in Afghanistan but they are still critical of it," Dr. Qayumi said. "I am critical, but I support it, because I know that a withdrawal would lead to chaos. Civil war."
Dr. Qayumi, 57, has an informed perspective. A year after the 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, he joined the mujahedeen resistance; for three years, he treated wounded fighters in the Afghan countryside. He was targeted for assassination by pro-Soviet collaborators. Dr. Qayumi immigrated to Canada with his family in 1983 but returns to Afghanistan on a regular basis, to distribute medical supplies and to perform charity work.
"I am totally amazed by Canadians and their efforts to help in Afghanistan," he says. "Unfortunately, I have also encountered Canadians who do not understand the problems there."
Successive federal governments have failed to articulate clearly the mission's purpose, he adds. Meanwhile, some elements on the political left "have their own political motives for spreading what is obviously false information about Afghanistan," Dr. Qayumi said. "They say there are promoting peace, but what they advocate will lead to more war." Better than most of us, he knows that extremists cannot go unchallenged.
stemmer @ Thu May 29, 2008 10:36 am
Nice find and post mtbr.
Apparently since 2004 the JFT-2 have been in Iraq and on March 23, 2006 were involved in a major clash "SAS-JTF-2 raid in western Baghdad"
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... p?t=134032
http://voice4freedom.blogspot.com/2006/ ... rce-2.html
meaden24 @ Thu May 29, 2008 11:45 am
I'm in the military, we are not in iraq stop smoking crack before you post. The green tackvest on the desertcam immediately idiciates a pre 2003 picture. fact is those pictures mean nothing they're just pictures of a canadian general stadning by some americans. Canada's official military position is not in iraq, we have no units stationed there, we have no combat operations there, we have no policy of our armed forces in iraq. I understand you're just trying to be "that guy" who thinks we're secretly invading iraq with the americans. We're neighbouring countries and military allies. of course you might see a hand full of high command canadians in iraq once in a while but it does nothing to support your theory of canadian forces operating in iraq. JTF2 is highly secretive and classified so I doubt you of all people to have even the slightest clue what their operations are. I would actually put the reporters who write this crap to make money and try and make a name for themselves in the same catergory of knowledge on the subject as you, which is no knowledge.